“Every time an INFJ is born, the gods flip a coin, and the world holds its breath.”

meowzician

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“Every time an INFJ is born, the gods flip a coin, and the world holds its breath.”

When we think about the many dictators in world history, we see a certain pattern. What they desire is power. They desire it so much that they will seize it. Their focus is on keeping or even expanding that power. They often have a paranoia that those close to them are competitors, and they will purge their inner circle a la Stalin. And they have a strong will to survive. Think of how Saddam Hussein was found in that rat hole. I’m going to give this pattern a name—the logic of power.

But not every tyrant falls into the usual pattern. I hear you saying, “Well, of course. I mean, not every dictator is going to follow the pattern on every single point.” But what if there were a monster who was different on EVERY point? That when we view him through the lens of the logic of power, he makes no sense? He seems mad?

Hitler did not come into power through any coup d’etat but was democratically elected. While he did conduct one purge (Night of the Long Knives), it was not out of paranoia or a sense of competition. Rather it was a highly pragmatic decision that enabled him to gain efficient control of the army. The truth is that the same men he worked with in the 1920s, Goebbels, Göring, Hess and others, were still with him right up until his death. And of course, he committed suicide.

The one thing about Hitler that has always baffled historians is that he made really stupid strategic errors. As the tide turned against Germany, instead of diverting resources from the Final Solution to fund the war, he did the very opposite. The trains desperately needed to transport soldiers to the front were monopolized by the SS to transport Jews to the death camps. The worse the war went, the more effort he focused the Final Solution. In the last hours before Germany fell, the slaughter of Jews rose to a frantic, feverish pitch. Why?

It is because Hitler didn’t follow the logic of power. He followed the logic of idealism. Simply put, Hitler’s focus was not Hitler. Hitler’s focus was the MISSION.

Most tyrants will find a scapegoat, a disliked group whose influence he can exaggerate, a convenient “enemy” whose sole purpose it is to help him consolidate power, whether it is Trotskyists or “immigrants from shit countries.” It is so common, that most people simply assume that this is what Hitler was doing.

That would be a mistake. Hitler was a true believer. He was completely convinced of the pseudoscience of race and absolutely believed that the Jews were a dangerous scourge, indeed that Jews were the most dangerous threat on the entire planet.

Unlike most dictators who are narcissists and psychopaths, Hitler was a true idealist. Just as he had compassion for animals (he was a vegetarian), he had enormous compassion for the German people, who had suffered unimaginably under the Weimar republic. In his mind, the only reason Germany lost WW1 was the betrayal of Jews.

For the record, Germany’s Jews were almost completely assimilated. They thought of themselves as Germans first and Jews second, and they were extraordinarily patriotic. A larger percentage of German Jews enlisted during WW1 than the percentage of ethnic Germans who enlisted.

But the antisemitic trope that Jews are disloyal predated the 20th century. Many Germans, including Hitler, couldn’t believe that Germany had lost the war militarily. They couldn’t imagine the German army being defeated on the battlefield. That’s fertile ground for a conspiracy theory. And the Jews? Given their already existing and unearned reputation for being disloyal, the Jews (along with the communists) became the convenient “stab in the back” explanation.

When you take an INFJ, and you destroy their moral compass with something like the Dolchstoßlegende, you create a monster.

As INFJ’s, it is so easy for us to see our connection to Martin Luther King Jr and Mahatma Gandhi, to Jesus and Buddha. It is deeply disturbing to realize than in our ranks are also Osama bin Laden, Robespierre, and… Hitler. And if you think that is hard on you, keep in mind that I am not just INFJ. I’m also a Jew. Use that INFJ empathy to try and imagine the horror I feel. I need you to, because this is just something I’ll never be able to put into words.

Two weeks ago, I sat down with my granddaughter and her father, and we had the antisemitism talk. As conversations tend to meander, ours touched on my idealism. My granddaughter knows who I am. She knows it is my intent to fight back, and she is worried that I may end up hurt, or even dead. I looked at her and said, “I have no intention of dying. I plan to do everything I can to stay alive. But if it comes down to that, Bubbelah, if I’m killed, it’s okay. It’s okay. There are some things worth dying for.”

Now, compare that to a YouTube video I watched yesterday of an informal interview with a Hezbollah terrorist. The most chilling thing about that interview was not that he wanted me (and all Jews) dead, although, yeah, that was hard to handle. The most chilling thing was that he believed his mission was worth dying for.

“Every time an INFJ is born, the gods flip a coin, and the world holds its breath.”
 
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@meowzician—

The approach I took while reading this piece was to wholeheartedly accept the premise that Hitler was, in fact, an INFJ. Approaching it this way allowed me to experience something interesting that I don’t quite know how to describe yet. But I liked the way my mind folded in on itself in the process.

Some may be inclined to argue against your premise, but whether Hitler was an INFJ or not isn’t really important to me. I think you made an interesting argument for why he might have been, and I think it was a powerful framework through which to share your thoughts. Your thoughts were good to hear.

Most of all, though, what I enjoyed about this piece was hearing about the conversation you had with your granddaughter. The way you framed everything toward the end gave me chills. It made my heart hurt for you. And for all of us.
 
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I do think he was an idealist only that he had a terribly skewed and flawed perspective of what was happening in the country. He also had a deep wound that triggered a lack of compassion and thereby justified his ideal in an unhealthy manner.

I also think there were other players involved that were feeding him money in support of greed and power internationally.

All of these things gravitate towards a terrible outcome. Most INFJ’s should not have high levels of power IMO.

I’ve also heard that he didn’t commit suicide but instead ended up in Argentina. There’s been documentaries on it but I don’t believe any of it is conclusive. My ADHD never allowed me to finish any of the documentaries and I honestly didn’t really care—though the CIA did seem to have a vested interest in determining if he escaped.
 
My "theory" about so many of the world's worst people being labeled INFJs is that when MBTI was invented in the 1940s, being rare and different was undesirable. People had a different mentality then and had different social and personality values that were less individualistic. They were duty and survival-oriented, self-sacrificing, resilient, and valued conformity. They didn't open up about their feelings. Even when the first MBTI manual became available in the early 60s, The Greatest Gen and the Silent Gen dominated with these mentalities, and the Boomers had not yet brought us the individualism of the late 1960s and early 1970s.

It was Gen X that really got the ball rolling in the late 70s -90s, with rebelling, subcultures, and being "out of step with the world." Since then, parenting has changed to support individual personalities and paths, and people prize being themselves over suppressing their own desires and needs for the greater good. Every generation since Gen X has had much more room to be themselves.

In the 40s through 60s, if you typed as an INFJ, you were truly different and unable to hide it. It was the rarest type. Placing these despicable figures (none of whom typed themselves) in the INFJ category offended the least number of people, and aligned with the outcast vibe INFJ had then. People didn't want to be outed as rare and different back then. The likelihood that they'd self-identity as a more common and sociable type was higher. Extroversion was prized above introversion, too.

While I don't deny that Hitler may have been an unhealthy INFJ, I don't believe the vast number of the world's worst people were all INFJ. It just follows the MBTI tradition of typing them that way, especially because Hitler was typed that way, making it easier to sort them all to align with him. In truth, they all likely had some sort of psychosis that dominated their personalities over any MBTI.

Now, individualism is prized, and people want to be unique. Being introverted is trendier than being extroverted. People want to be different and rare. Most humans feel rare and misunderstood sometimes, but believing this is personal instead of a human condition, people use this instead of cognitive function traits to type themselves. More and more people self-identify as INFJ. It is no longer the rarest type. I've lost track, but MBTI put out an update a few years ago that labeled ENTJ as the rarest. (I think the "do you feel rare" questions should be omitted from tests.)
 
hitler is an infj though and i don't care about him at all but i'm sure you guys do
@haerin—

Honestly, I don’t have much personal interest in history for its own sake or the cast of characters that make it up either. But genocide is atrocious and more than disturbing. When someone brings up Hitler or the Holocaust, that’s where my mind goes.

@meowsician’s post felt deeply personal, thoughtful, and vulnerable. I experienced it as a reflection on the shadow of idealism, the value of human life, and the darkness of antisemitism. It also reminded me that there are people within my sphere who have real reason to fear antisemitism in a way that I never personally have. That touched me. That’s what stayed with me.
 
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Most INFJ’s should not have high levels of power IMO.
Could you speak more about this?
I’ve also heard that he didn’t commit suicide but instead ended up in Argentina. There’s been documentaries on it but I don’t believe any of it is conclusive. My ADHD never allowed me to finish any of the documentaries and I honestly didn’t really care—though the CIA did seem to have a vested interest in determining if he escaped.
Yeah, ADHD will do that. :)

The evidence that Adolf Hitler committed suicide is overwhelming. Multiple people who were in the Fuhrerbunker gave consistent accounts that Hitler shot himself while Eva Braun took cyanide. Soviet investigators recovered burned remains outside the bunker, and later forensic studies matched Hitler's dental remains with his prewar dental records and the testimony of his dentist's staff. Although the Soviets initially gave conflicting public statements, virtually every professional historian today agrees that Hitler died in that bunker.

The conspiracy theory that Hitler escaped to Argentina has been around since the end of the war. It became especially popular because many other Nazis really did escape to South America through the so called "ratlines," and Argentina under Juan Peron welcomed a number of them.

People who are into this conspiracy theory often point to FBI and CIA files that mention possible sightings of Hitler after the war. But those files are not proof that he survived. Intelligence agencies collect and archive thousands of tips, even when they turn out to be false. The reports about Hitler were investigated, but none were ever confirmed.

Today, no credible physical evidence has ever been found showing that Hitler lived beyond April 1945. While many Nazis really did escape to Argentina, the evidence strongly indicates that Hitler was NOT one of them. As a result, the escape theory is rejected by essentially all historians who specialize in Nazi Germany.
 
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My "theory" about so many of the world's worst people being labeled INFJs is that when MBTI was invented in the 1940s, being rare and different was undesirable. People had a different mentality then and had different social and personality values that were less individualistic. They were duty and survival-oriented, self-sacrificing, resilient, and valued conformity. They didn't open up about their feelings. Even when the first MBTI manual became available in the early 60s, The Greatest Gen and the Silent Gen dominated with these mentalities, and the Boomers had not yet brought us the individualism of the late 1960s and early 1970s.
This post is good stuff, Asa. I would agree that the culture has changed and conformity is out. And yes, I do think there is a lot of INFJ envy today specifically because people DO like the idea of being rare and different.

What I'm not so sure about is the idea that people therefore ARE less conformist and more different. I run into people all the time who are convinced that they are non-conformists. I don't rock their boat. I don't spoil their view of themselves. I let them go on thinking they are different. But they are anything but different. When all your friends are getting piercings and tattoos, getting piercings and tattoos is just the new conformity.
While I don't deny that Hitler may have been an unhealthy INFJ, I don't believe the vast number of the world's worst people were all INFJ.
I truly hope that my post didn't give the impression that I think this. I kind of thought I was pretty clear that I think MOST dictators are *not* INFJ, that they are narcissists and psychopaths who follow the logic of power, not the logic of idealism.
I've lost track, but MBTI put out an update a few years ago that labeled ENTJ as the rarest. (I think the "do you feel rare" questions should be omitted from tests.)
I would love to read more on this. I know you said you lost track, but anything you can remember that I can use as a foundation for my own search would be really helpful!
 
wonyoung is an entj i love her
I'm wondering why you are in an INFJ forum interrupting conversations with random, irrelevant remarks. Are you okay? Or are you perhaps trolling?
 
What I'm not so sure about is the idea that people therefore ARE less conformist and more different.

I don't think they are, either. I think that because MBTI is a self-assessment, the test skews toward current desirable traits. (But even if someone else gives the test, people can fake who they are.)


I truly hope that my post didn't give the impression that I think this. I kind of thought I was pretty clear that I think MOST dictators are *not* INFJ, that they are narcissists and psychopaths who follow the logic of power, not the logic of idealism.

I agree with you.

I would love to read more on this. I know you said you lost track, but anything you can remember that I can use as a foundation for my own search would be really helpful!


I think the update came out in 2021, maybe 2020. I can't find the article right now, only people reacting ot it.
 
no you guys brought up entj as maybe the rarest mbti?
Ohhhhhhhhhh. Okay got it. :)

Do you know how to quote yet? At the bottom of every post is a button that says REPLY. If you click it, it will automatically contain a quote of the post you are replying to. You can quote the whole thing, or you can delete as much as you want and just include only the part of the post that you are responding to. It helps people know what it is you are replying to, which in a forum is not always clear. :)
 
I don't think they are, either. I think that because MBTI is a self-assessment, the test skews toward current desirable traits. (But even if someone else gives the test, people can fake who they are.)
That makes sense.
 
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Could you speak more about this?
This was with respect to INFJ’s and power:
All of the NF’s are idealist and their emotions are tied to their ideals. If they are a leader or in power they can have a tendency to lean on their own idealistic preference when making decisions rather than doing what is best for an organization. They can also be triggered if someone steps on their trauma injury (very common for INFJ’s to have an injury from childhood)—when this happens they can make decisions while in their shadow functions and that result in bad outcomes.

I have personally found myself in this position and I don’t seek out leadership or power positions because I’m far happier when I can be introverted, not juggle so many people coming at me for direction and that makes it far less stressful of a life. There are other MBTI types that are far better at doing these things. I did say “most,” because there are some that could be adapted / adjusted to perform just fine in these roles, but I’m more likely to follow an NT (that has a good moral compass) than most other types.

Here is an older graphic I found that has the types from an older source. It shows total population and is also broken down by men and women.
IMG_9249.webp

ENTJ was small in 1998 so even a margin of error could probably make up the difference. It would be interesting to compare the older results to the new publication Asa mentioned.
 
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