explaining why J's can appear as P's and visa versa

Morgain said:
- secondly I think the development of inferior functions can also have an influence on how J or P you are. When an INFJ has developed there Se function it would them therefore make them seem even more P'sh
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It does. When I developed mine, I went from constantly judging the world and wanting to implement my Ni, to understanding the world, and using Se to pick up cues on how things worked.

Now my Ni very much takes a backseat to things and I seem nothing like a J while living my life. I see people's actions, and understand why they are acting that way. If they want advice or input on what they're doing wrong, I might be able to provide it, but my Ni has come to understand that such advice is usually meaningless. The answers in life are only revealed when we are ready to unveil them, no sooner. It's a personal journey, not something for me to comment on unless such comments are sought from me.

I went from this Ni ideal of what the world should be to accepting the world as it is, and building my Ni to simply understand. I have my personal morality and values, but they are mine, no others.

The fact that I make these judgments makes me a J, but those very same judgments cause me to behave as a P.
 
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Morgain said:
if they cleaned there act up they wouldn't be narcissists :-)
so you do enforce your morals onto other people. Narcism is not a good way to live so you would only be friends with them if they take over your moral and stop being narcistic
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No no no.

Not wanting to hang around with horrible people but being forgiving of people willing to change doesn't mean I enforce my morals onto other people.

They don't have to have my morals. They don't have to change specifically how I'd like them to change. They just have to not victimise people, lie constantly and twist everything I say.
 
IndigoSensor said:
Yes.

J and P does come from our cognitive functions, and it largely emerges from how much gets filtered into the extroverted functions. Ni Ti Fi and Si themselves don't impact the J/P axis that much, however how much they get filtered does. Everything I think and do eventually gets filtered through my Fe in some way, which is why my J is so damn high, in addition to me using Fe first then linking it to the other functions. My Se usually gets kicked in the dirt so I ignore most of it.
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//sneaks up on you and goes BOO!
 
I find that I am very much J, but I could understand how one might think some of my tendencies are P-like, although I find that these P-like tendencies only appear in my external world. Because my Ni is dominant, I find that I can live with a a messy desk, for example. As long as my mind is organized, I'm good. Also, aren't Introverts as a whole sometimes less obligated to social obligation? What I mean are things like paying bills or returning a phone call. If someone ends up paying a bill late, it could be perceived as a P tendency. I know that I tend to push "social obligations" aside.
 
IndigoSensor said:
Yes.

J and P does come from our cognitive functions, and it largely emerges from how much gets filtered into the extroverted functions. Ni Ti Fi and Si themselves don't impact the J/P axis that much, however how much they get filtered does. Everything I think and do eventually gets filtered through my Fe in some way, which is why my J is so damn high, in addition to me using Fe first then linking it to the other functions. My Se usually gets kicked in the dirt so I ignore most of it.
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Lmao!

I'm the Anti-Indy!
 
Poetic Justice said:
No no no.

Not wanting to hang around with horrible people but being forgiving of people willing to change doesn't mean I enforce my morals onto other people.

They don't have to have my morals. They don't have to change specifically how I'd like them to change. They just have to not victimise people, lie constantly and twist everything I say.
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huh?

but it is enforcing your morals onto others. Because your moral is "you shouldn't victimuse others". This is not a moral of them since they are victimising others. So if you ask them to "not victimise people" you enforce your morals on them, they have to behave according to your morals or else you can't be friends with them...

acd111 said:
I find that I am very much J, but I could understand how one might think some of my tendencies are P-like, although I find that these P-like tendencies only appear in my external world. Because my Ni is dominant, I find that I can live with a a messy desk, for example. As long as my mind is organized, I'm good. Also, aren't Introverts as a whole sometimes less obligated to social obligation? What I mean are things like paying bills or returning a phone call. If someone ends up paying a bill late, it could be perceived as a P tendency. I know that I tend to push "social obligations" aside.
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no I don't think that feeling obligated to social obligations has something to do with introvertion. It is rather Fe, Te against Fi, Ti I think. Fe feels very much obligated to social norms and Te to rules in general, while Fi and Ti seek there own morals and rules, I think ... :D
 
Morgain said:
huh?
but it is enforcing your morals onto others. Because your moral is "you shouldn't victimuse others". This is not a moral of them since they are victimising others. So if you ask them to "not victimise people" you enforce your morals on them,
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Ok I see your point but with that reasoning you could say everybody enforces their morals on others. Everyone would like at least someone to do something different.

Anyone who disagrees with serial killers, peodophiles, nazis, rapists, kidnappers etc would fall into that category. that doesn't make them P or make them the type of person who the phrase "you enforce your morals on others" fits.

they have to behave according to your morals or else you can't be friends with them...
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I think you are over generalising my statement. I don't agree with this part of the quote. People don't have to behave according to my morals to be my friends. I find different points of view interesting.
 
88chaz88 said:
Lmao!

I'm the Anti-Indy!
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I suppose that makes you great at taking people out of their little boxes and haven't head-desked once in your life. Don't tell me you're a literature major, because that'd be the cherry on top :)
 
Poetic Justice said:
Ok I see your point but with that reasoning you could say everybody enforces their morals on others. Everyone would like at least someone to do something different.

Anyone who disagrees with serial killers, peodophiles, nazis, rapists, kidnappers etc would fall into that category. that doesn't make them P or make them the type of person who the phrase "you enforce your morals on others" fits.

I think you are over generalising my statement. I don't agree with this part of the quote. People don't have to behave according to my morals to be my friends. I find different points of view interesting.
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then what are your morals and what would be an example of enforcing your morals to others?

one of my morals is that you need to be conciderate to others. You can't always get it your way and should therefore seek for a common ground an middle road where everyone is happy. Some of my friends think differently. They think that you should never have to do anything that you don't want to do (we are talking about eating pizza when you want to eat pasta, not doing something ilegal :-) ). Therefore if I go out with them and want to eat pizza and they want to eat pasta, their solution would be that I go and eat pizza and they go and eat pasta since no one shoud have to eat what they don't want to eat. That is when I blow up since I think they should be more conciderate to other people and not be so selfish.
is that an example of enforcing my morals to others?
 
Morgain said:
one of my morals is that you need to be conciderate to others. You can't always get it your way and should therefore seek for a common ground an middle road where everyone is happy. Some of my friends think differently. They think that you should never have to do anything that you don't want to do (we are talking about eating pizza when you want to eat pasta, not doing something ilegal :-) ). Therefore if I go out with them and want to eat pizza and they want to eat pasta, their solution would be that I go and eat pizza and they go and eat pasta since no one shoud have to eat what they don't want to eat. That is when I blow up since I think they should be more conciderate to other people and not be so selfish.
is that an example of enforcing my morals to others?
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If the majority wants pasta then it makes sense for you to all go and have pasta. If the majority wants pizza then you should all go have pizza. But if just one person doesn't like pizza or pasta then it doesn't matter what the majority wants as you you need to sort something out which is acceptable to everyone.

I wouldn't split up the group and all go different places but I don't think that is a moral issue. It's just one of consideration for your friends.

To be honest your friends sound a little mean.

I don't think I enforce my morals on others. Everyone does to some extent but I think I do it less than average. I am very accepting of others points of view but I can't abide witnessing bullying. I don't think that makes me an INFP or that wanting your friends to eat together makes you an INFP.

Everytime I try and type an example of enforcing morals it sounds horrible and I don't to paint INFP's as something negative so I'm going to give that a miss.

I think it can be summed my saying INFP's expect people to see things from their point of view. They believe all they need do is explain their position and everyone will immediately understand and change their opinions to match. Obviously this rarely happens and this causes the INFP no small amount of emotional distress. They don't understand how anyone can see things differently to how they see them.

I think....

Based on this. I am not an INFP.

Maybe I have this wrong though.

Thoughts?
 
TheDaringHatTrick said:
I suppose that makes you great at taking people out of their little boxes and haven't head-desked once in your life. Don't tell me you're a literature major, because that'd be the cherry on top :)
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I enjoy chaos, hate academia of all kinds, can't stand the cold, and love shaking things up.

If this doesn't make me the polar opposite of Indy, I don't know what would.
 
Poetic Justice said:
I think it can be summed my saying INFP's expect people to see things from their point of view. They believe all they need do is explain their position and everyone will immediately understand and change their opinions to match. Obviously this rarely happens and this causes the INFP no small amount of emotional distress. They don't understand how anyone can see things differently to how they see them.
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Yep, that would fit with what I said before about INFPs who haven't developed their Ne and so allow their Fi to call all the shots.
 
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