Family relationships; Caring for the Elderly, Part I

just me

just me

Well-known member
MBTI
infj
I know we may think of different subjects when thinking about relationships, but there are some family issues I would like to hear thoughts from some of you that wish to share. I wish to address the elderly first, if I may.

I used to think we treated the elderly with respect and dignity, especially family members. When the elderly reach a certain age, their health can deteriorate at different levels than others their own age due to specifics or chance. Sometimes they become dependant on others as they age. I would like to think a healthy family would step in and help out to the best of their abilities, but have found this to be so untrue. Let me give an example, if I may.

Falling can cause many health issues, some of which can be deadly and many life-threatening. Hospital visits are followed with surgery or surgeries, lengthy hospital stays, and often the hospital sending them away as they can no longer qualify for hospital care. Many end up in homes that may offer different levels of healthcare. Many patients may have already lost their husband or wife of many years, already leaving them hurt and dismal. Many have children, grandchildren, and even great grandchildren or more.

Where do all these family members go?

There are those I like to call "the few" that tend to them with due diligence, some not even wishing to leave them alone at a hospital for even weeks on end. These are truly the few. Go to your local hospital and look. Sit there and watch. There are those not even visited, possibly for weeks on end.

At what point does one start trying to live their own life and deal with their own life circumstances like bills and jobs while being one of the few? I am one of the few, and do not boast about it. I serve with gladness and humility. I observe others with shame. I am often embarrassed at the way some avoid the situation. I question in my mind and my heart how they can put themselves first before those that cared for them when they needed caring for and gave when they needed things they could not afford.

Then there are those that help but want something in return ultimately. They use the situation to ask for things or try and play out the situation to their own benefit. I will not judge this, but will say it turns my stomach and does heat my blood up at times.

As the weeks turn into a month, and as the month increases, the few become more and more weary. Yes: we grow tired from absence of things we need to nurture our own selves. At what point does one let go for a night without feeling wrong? At what point does one skip a day at the hospital for business or pleasure without feeling guilty? Can we let go for a moment or two? What if something were to go wrong at the hospital like so many other times before when we were able to bring something to a nurse's attention?

At what point does our job or business become important to us again? Will it ever be important to us again?

Is this personality-related or just the way it is in life with families? Please forgive me should it take awhile to answer the posts, should there be any input. Some of us do what we do out of love and expect nothing in return. How can we keep from looking down at the inaction of others? I will not judge them, but their inaction is taking its moments of thought in my mind. Oh, for the love of me; how can this be so? Please do not turn this into a thread about me.
 
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I have an aunt who moved in with my grandparents in order to take care of them full time. She even left her job as a nurse to do so. While I don't agree with all her methods (she turned into a natural healing NUT, and I mean NUT) she is doing all she thinks is necessary to keep them alive.

The problem is that this year my grandmother got sick and landed in the hospital. She told my aunt that if she should live, to let her just enjoy the last few years of her life instead of feeding food that might be healthy but certainly doesn't taste good (my aunt is a raw foodist, meaning raw fruits, veggies and nuts only, no cooked food whatsoever.) My grandmother said she would rather die than endure more of that. Well, my grandmother got better and then my aunt returned to the raw food diet. She wants to see them live to 100, but neither of my grandparents want that for themselves.
 
I feel no personal obligation to take care of elderly family members in my family. When both my grandfathers were in the hospital dying they didn't want my sister or I there because they didn't want to be seen that way. One of my grandfathers even refused a feeding tube. He was dying of cancer and had lived in his house alone up until the final week before he died. His next door neighbour would check on him every day. My mom and dad went to his house as often as possible to see him. My sister and I only saw him a couple times after his diagnosis. He faded away to almost nothing.

My grandmother was living with my parents for four years. She had no respect for their house what so ever. My parents bought a house with a private basement suite just so she could live with them and be cared for. She has a gambling problem and would often times run out of food and money because she was obsessed with it. She would always come upstairs and mooch off my parents. She didn't take care of her cat properly and it ruined all of the carpets and everything downstairs that my parents had put in for her. She just didn't give a fuck to put it lightly and I hate her for taking advantage of my mom and dad like that. Thank God she went to live across the country with my Aunt and my parents got free from her. She is the most negative person I have ever encountered and if she dies I will feel no sadness nor will I miss her.

I think it was experiences my mom has had to endure with taking care of all of our older family members that made her decide that the second her and my dad couldn't take care of themselves they wanted to be put in a home. My sister and I both live across country for them so we aren't capable of being there to care for them should they need it. But that's a long way off. My sister wants them to come live with her so she can take care of them, but my mom says she never ever wants to be a burden to anyone and that she and my dad couldn't live with themselves if they put us in that position. They want us to have as much freedom as possible.

I don't look down on anyone who isn't there for elderly family members because I don't know their family dynamic. I don't know what the elderly family members what or expect. There's respect and then there's being taken advantage of which I have seen too often.

I remain completely removed from most of my family and it doesn't bother me at all. I do not believe that just because someone is related by blood that they are family or that I am obligated to love them. That's my biased and cynical opinion based on my own experiences with my own family.
 
I sense more of what I am feeling, and feel more of what I am thinking. Can't remember how many times someone had to feed and clothe me, clean up my puke from the carpet, or change my diapers. When people get older, they require maintenance and love as the babies and children we all used to be did.

Riding in a car as a young child, my Mother used to hold her arm in front of me when she had to stop the car quickly. I can think of days when I have held my arm in front of her when I had to stop quickly.

Training and working K-9s, there is an obstacle where the K-9 has to climb steps similar to a ladder. The handler had best hold out his arms and try to catch that K-9 should it appear to be falling, whether it fall or not. I have said enough for awhile.
 
I don't think elders deserve any more respect than someone who's younger.
Why would they do? Because they have more experience in life and blah blah blah? I give respect to people who deserve it, and I'm not going to respect some random mafia leader just because he's 100 years old.

That doesn't answer the whole question, but I hate writing giant novels.
 
My family has a healthy amount of independence going on. One grandmother died while my father was a child, his father was placed in a home after his youngest child not treating him properly. He was more ashamed of how she was raised by him and resigned to it and the poor diet ravaged his system as a diabetic. He died with one of his sons checking up on him but the rest were scattered across the midwest and my father in the northeast.

The other two are pretty healthy. They are slowing down and one of my aunts lives within a 10 min drive and checks up weekly but they keep themselves busy and don't really like being on their own. This sentiment I share as I would prefer to die active rather than invalid and if invalid is my only choice prolonging the inevitable seems selfish.
 
I for some reason feel lost or maybe I feel more like a stranger. My expectations were higher, I guess(to me). Hard to figure the human mind sometimes. No need to carry this family thing past part one.
 
just me said:
There are those I like to call "the few" that tend to them with due diligence, some not even wishing to leave them alone at a hospital for even weeks on end. These are truly the few. Go to your local hospital and look. Sit there and watch. There are those not even visited, possibly for weeks on end.
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My mother is one of what you call "the few". When my grandmother became unable to take care of herself my mother moved mountains to get her in an assisted living facility close by. She lived in another state at the time. My maternal grandmother was often unkind to my mother and gave her a pretty hard time growing up. My mother could have been like her siblings and chosen to have minimal involvement, put my grandmother in a home and just fly in for holidays. But, my mother has a very kind heart and she was determined to take care of the woman who took care of her, no matter what. I admire this quality in her, and I hope that when I am in her shoes, I will have the strength to act as she did. My grandmother died more than 10 years ago and now my mother is doing it again. Both my father's parents live with her and my dad now. My dad is a wonderful caretaker too. He has siblings as well but he took on the role of caring for his parents just as my mother did. I am very proud of them. I hope that when they need me, I will be able to provide for them as they have for their parents. How they have taken care of their elderly parents has set a wonderful example for me.
 
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just me said:
I for some reason feel lost or maybe I feel more like a stranger. My expectations were higher, I guess(to me). Hard to figure the human mind sometimes. No need to carry this family thing past part one.
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Don't give up on this thread. I think what you wrote was beautiful. You touched on so many great points. I think if you give this thread a little time, it might start to head more in the direction you hoped it would.

I am guessing you are feeling that your post was misunderstood and you hoped to find some viewpoints similar to your own? I have had that happen to me before and it's a lonely feeling.

I feel that those who care for their family members are to be greatly admired and emulated. I thank you for starting this thread.
 
My grandparents are getting pretty elderly now (in their 80's) and would like to see them get the care they need through moving into retirement a village.
But for now, I intend to give them the support they need. I soon hope to go over weekly to help my grandmother and grandfather out with their garden (it looks like something out of the day of the triffids at the moment). I don't feel its my obligation, I am doing it because I want to. I love my family.

I don't respect the elderly any more than the youth, nor am I more considerate. I see people as people regardless of their age but I think we could be doing more these days to help each other out (of course we could say this for every generation that walked the face of the earth).
 
I used to take care of my grandmother for some time during her last stage of Alzheimer's. My granddad being a very stubborn and not really caring type of person didn't see fit to inform us of her condition until it was too late for any medication or care that would prolong her life and make it a more comfortable one. She came into my part of the house with my granddad, and it was a hell on earth. I'm not going to complain about things a I had to do, and I don't regret stepping in when all other chose to turn their backs on whole that mess of a situation, but I want to emphasize how important it is not to forget to care of self while caring for others. I read many manuals for dealing with people in late stages of dementia, of being a primary caregiver, and that point could not be emphasized enough, which I found out the hard way.

People tend to equate care for elderly with caring for a baby, but it's not really the same. Most of the people who have to take care of a baby chose to do it, and many of them came into it fully prepared, some of them have a lot of help in that course of action, also there are daycare facilities and other ways that serve to relieve parents of that role for some period of the day, so that they may go to work, have some time for themselves. Having to care for an elderly person often comes completely unannounced, people are almost never prepared for that, and there is a lot of what person needs to learn on the road. Because people perceive that it is shameful to put a member of a family in a home where they would have people of the same age to keep them company and trained staff to attend their needs, they often opt for being a primary caregiver and take a very big burden that might be too much for them, which diminishes their capacity to help themselves or the person they are taking care of. Most kids have two parents, and often those who are caregivers are on their own.

I felt a lot of guilt for wanting to do something else, to just go out and see my friends, to not have to arrange everything in my life according to someone who at some point had no idea who I am, where she is, who at some point stopped talking, who had virtually none of the qualities that constitute a person. It was a life changing experience, one that teaches you humility, respect, where your boundaries are and how you can move them instantly if needed. It took me a long time to recover from guilt, from thinking that I could have done a better job, that I wasn't kind enough. I used to judge those who in that type of situations decided not to engage, who decided to walk away. I felt a lot of anger, sadness, resentment, but also joy, contentment and peace, because in the end, given the same situation I'd do exactly the same no matter how painful it was in so many ways.

What I can say after going through all that is that one needs to let go from time to time, in order to relax and attend it's own needs, especially if one is a primary caregiver, and spends 24 hours with an elderly person. Sadly for those who take that role seriously it is never easy, and involves a lot of guilt especially if something is to go wrong during that time. But one can't be a good caregiver if doesn't attend their own needs first. This part is the same as being a parent I imagine. At some point one just has to accept that they can't be around all the time, that things will happen during their absence and that they are not to blame for it. People are not omnipotent and omnipresent beings, they have various limitations, and this is just something that has to be accepted.

@just me If you are still in this situation (even if you aren't), I would be interested to hear if something has changed in the way you see this matter? How are you holding up? Do you have some help?
 
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I think a lot of it depends on who needs the caring.

I have no issue with my parents going into nursing homes because i can't stand them and never want to be near them again and would hate the idea of being obligated to care for either of them or be close to them if they had to have surgery.

I think this is due to the fact that they were right horrible parents while I was a child. However if my grandfather needed me to remain here I probably would feel obligated to do so because he has always been good to me and there is a strong bond between us.

there is no way I will send my husband, who is a good deal older than me, to a nursing home. I want to take care of him myself because I love him and want to be close to him always, and I feel that my promise as his wife obligates me to care for him as long as I physically can.
 
I believe in caring for the elderly, both relatives and not. It is a part of my upbringing. Loving relatives have the greatest priority but even less loving ones are still deserving simply because they are human. I don't know how someone could walk away. The guilt would destroy me.

The difficulties of modern life, too little time, distance, responsibilities, make it infinitely more difficult but all family members should pull their weight and they should be appreciated for it. I don't understand how one could care for things or animals more than people who are hurt and vulnerable. The elderly have many challenges, some of them were always nasty people but some of them behave badly because their mind is gone. It's so tragic.

I personally fear a lonesome old age. I see it in my future with friends and family migrating or dying. Friends especially cannot be expected to carry that burden. The future makes me shudder.
 
[MENTION=2719]justme[/MENTION]

I have wrote, edited, and re-wrote this response more times than I care to count...I wonder how I can possibly respond to something like this without writing an entire book.

To be clear, I've not yet been in a situation like yours, as my parents are still relatively young, my grandmothers both live on their own still, and both my grandfathers died many years ago.

However, given my family dynamics, I do wonder how I would cope in such a situation. Most of my thinking on this matter has been brought to the forefront because I worked in health care (in a nursing home setting) for eight years. As of November I no longer do...I simply could not deal with it anymore.

I've seen indifference and apathy on both sides of the equation...it is something I have found difficult to try to not judge at times. Some people get accused of not caring enough, while others are accused of over-involvement. I've seen so much anger, from both sides, most of which stems from misunderstandings due to lack of communication. I'm still working out my own emotions and confusion with the types of questions you seem to be asking. All I really know is that we don't have a right to dictate someone's level of involvement based on how we would act, nor can they tell us how we should. All family situations are different, and we can never truly know why this person or that behaves as they do.

You seem to be trying to do the best you can do in your situation, and that is admirable. I think this is just one of those personal decisions people have to make for themselves, and can't compare themselves to others to do it "the right way." Try to share the burden, if you can, try to take some time away, again, if you can. If doing so makes you feel too guilty, realize you are the one placing judgments and expectations on yourself. No one really should be judging another for their level of involvement, of course, and you can't allow the opinions of others be a deciding factor. You can only do what you can do, as difficult as it is to accept sometimes.

I truly hope I haven't misunderstood the purpose of your thread, and that, somewhere in my ramblings you can find at least some small bit of value.
 
I no longer feel bitter toward others, so I have grown in this. I cannot state I understand how different people feel so differently, but will say I have been told not to expect others to be like me. There is wisdom in that, and I have come to terms with it.

I also have lost the guilt of not doing more than I could or can. I try to answer any calling to help even at my own cost, but it is not out of guilt. It still remains difficult at best for me to watch those helped so much not helping. Why? It just does not feel right to me: the situation, not the person's actions.

My love for my fellow humankind has grown through this also. My heart goes out to those challenged with health or physical/mental difficulties. I cannot look at them without compassion. I want to help them, but Who Am I? Yes, it is one of those personal decisions people make. I have been given so much insight that I cannot call my helping admirable, though. It is merely a decision with great rewards that do not come freely.

I sometimes feel I have been given the gift of vision through the elderly's eyes. I can not state I am the same any longer. My life has changed and my vision of life has changed. My desires have changed. My views have changed. I will answer the calling to help as much as possible with my parent. When the last is gone, I will visit their graves and talk to them in tears until I can finally do it in joy.

I must remember that each part of the body is necessary for something, and one part should not boast over another part. I really do not know the purpose of this thread; I merely felt like starting it so I did. I do try to answer the calling in my heart when I can. Talking with others about this may help me more than anyone else, so I hope it is not viewed as a selfish thread if that is so.
 
Growing old. Another persons story.

@justme


I just found your thread. Thank you for posting. I grew up knowing that the life and times of my grandparents swung from one side of the pendulum to the other. As a small boy I witnessed my grandparents, and my parents fight a lot.

First, let me qualify the parameters. My grandparents were each only married once. They found true love and never left each other until the actual “death do us part”. My birth mother and father divorced when I was somewhere around three or four. My birth mother then married a drunkard that was a hothead and a bully.

My birth mom and step dad always were always arguing with my grandparents. I remember growing up that there were times when things were fine between them too. I do remember a large part of my youth spent with grandma and grandpa. Looking back I now believe that a lot of the time my siblings and me spent with grandma was because my birth mom couldn’t afford a baby-sitter, having blown all her money on booze, and grandma was all to glad to help. Grandpa still worked fulltime.

Growing up my birth mom and step dad were both drunks and routinely abuse us kids. If what they did to us were to happen in today’s standards, they both would be doing prison time. My birth mom and step dad are now divorced. Because of what was done to me as a child, I feel no need to care for my mother, should she need it.

My grandparents were another story. First, my grandfather died. Then soon after my grandmother started to need some help. Her own daughter only gave limited help but always wanted something for her time and effort. By this time I was grown and married and already had my own family. It was after my birth mom had to start helping my grandmother that my birth mom got divorced from the bully, sold the house and moved out of state. From time to time my birth mom would stop by to visit grandma but always took something home for her time to travel back here and visit.

After my birth mom left the state, I started helping my grandmother. We had always been close. It felt good to give help to the woman who helped raise me. I would get her mail from the post office, take her shopping at her favorite grocery store, and take her to her doctors’ appointments.

The only thing my grandmother wanted after grandpa died was to live out her life at home. The home ‘they’ lived in forever. She did not want to go to an old folks home. Although she needed both a walker and a wheel chair to navigate the house, we made it work. Handrails were installed to help her pull herself up some steps. Handrails in the bath tub also. She could get out to the back patio and sit during the day watching her favorite soap operas and drinking her favorite beer. When she was ready she could cook whatever she wanted to eat, as we had setup a small electric toaster oven, electric bbq, a crock pot, and an electric skillet all where she could reach while sitting in her wheel chair. She was able to live in her own home and be quite comfortable. I only needed to help her with the stuff that required leaving the house. She hired a girl from up the street to come twice a week and help do dishes, laundry and some housework.

One day my grandma called me and asked me to come over. She said it was important and she thought she had done something terrible. She said she was fine, no medical issue or anything like that, but that she needed me to come over. When I pulled up into the driveway I spotted the ‘for sale’ sign in the yard.

I went inside and listened intently as my grandmother explained what happened. She explained that for some time her daughter (my birth mother) had been prodding her to sell the house. The concept being that my grandmother would sell her house and buy the lot next door to my birth mom, and put up a manufactured home, and live next door to her daughter. Grandma went on to say that her daughter had finally convinced her to put the house up for sale, and now she was regretting it. My grandmother went on further to say that her daughter had also convinced her to void her current will and draw up a living trust. The living trust gave her daughter everything and explicitly denying anything to her other daughter (my aunt) and explicitly denying anything to the grandkids. The previous will had allowed for both her daughters and the grandkid to all get something when my grandmother was to pass away.

So, my grandmother was now afraid the she had been pressured to do all this, and that if she went through with it, that my birth mother would wait until her mom was living right next door, and then have her own mom declared incompetent to be on her own, and have her committed. My grandmother was fearful then if this happened, her daughter would take the home next door and have a cozy rental unit, while her mom rotted away someplace else soon to be forgotten.

Knowing how evil my birth mothers mind worked, I fully agreed that was most likely the plan my birth mom was trying to carry out. I asked my grandmother what she wanted. She told me she wanted stay in her house and redo the living trust. Grandma and I went over the living trust and agreed that my birth mom at least got that part right. A living trust was much better than a will. A will can be contested upon your death while a living trust cannot.

So, my grandmother took her house back off the market, and I took her to her attorney and the terms of the living trust were changed. My grandmother was a feisty one at times and this was one of them. She made sure her daughter got nothing, and that some of the grandkids and great-grandkids got what she felt was right. Now she was happy again.

My grandmother lived several more years in the house where she and the love of her life grew old together. During this time she had gotten a bit worse, and I had gotten divorced. I moved in with her and took care of her fulltime until the day she died.

Looking back, I wouldn’t change a thing. It wasn’t always easy, but life itself never is. She didn’t need to go into a convalescent home. She just needed someone to love her and help her. She just needed someone to ‘return the favor’ if you will, for her taking a big part of her life to care for others. I was glad to do it. I loved her, and she loved me.

So, to conclude, I have really been on both sides of the coin. On one side there is a person in my family that I just feel is evil and hurtful, so I have no compunction to help. Then on the other side was someone who was a caring wonderful woman who just needed someone to care about her.

@justme I hope this is helpful to you in some way, and what you were looking for when you started this thread.
 
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It is sometimes those that need the most help we often may overlook simply because of their life decisions. I get that out of some of the responses. That may stem from judging others. I guess we may decide to judge them unworthy of our love and our help. What does that say about ourselves?
 
just me said:
It is sometimes those that need the most help we often may overlook simply because of their life decisions. I get that out of some of the responses. That may stem from judging others. I guess we may decide to judge them unworthy of our love and our help. What does that say about ourselves?
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For me, the love my grandmother gave me was deserving of my love in return.

For the years of abuse and neglect my mother showed me, I had to save myself.
Saving myself meant never being around her again.
 
I, too, wrote a person out of my life many years ago. I was asked to sign something unbecoming and untimely; selfish with no respect regarding another's wishes. I signed that person out of my life as I was signing the document. They will not need me to care for them at any point down the road; that was obvious. It was their and their's loss moreso than mine. I forgave them but I stuck with my decision. I still do not like what was done and when it was done, though. I do understand circumstances.

What I meant was as a whole, as a people; what does it say about the human race if we only help those deserving? I was taught to rise above the pain and not to lower self to others' standards. Sometimes people make their own bed and must lay in it, too. What if we only received love when we were deserving?

I also understand we are more apt to help those that helped us, and less apt to help those that abused us.
 
It really depends on the personal relationship you have with someone. How close are you? What experiences have you shared? There is a tie that forms with time--it's that tie that that you form with people that either makes you a "few" or an other.

For example, I don't have the same tie with my grandparents as my mother does. I didn't get to know them on her terms (directly mother/father/daughter) She has told me quite a few of her childhood stories, some of which I always wondered how she handled back then and didn't rebel, but she always expressed respect and admiration of some sort. I believe it also has a bit to do with culture.

When my grandmother got really sick (she was diagnosed late with cancer) my mother's reaction was automatic. She quit her job got on the bus and took off to Mexico. My father kept us from going with her.We were told to stay in the states and keep going to school and that if things got really bad (in other words her death was near) that we would go too. Well the news reached us a few days later that it was her last days and we all took off to Mexico. I remember entering my grandparents home and noticing so many people gathered in a very small room crying and prayinng. My grandmother was in the center of the room in a bed, she was still alive. My mother was by her side crying and hugging her. They had just brought her back from the hospital where they had said there was nothing more that could be done--they brought her back so that everyone she knew could be around her in her last moments. My mother had been there from the moment she found out day and night in the hospital and then in that room.

I didn't know how to react...it saddened me to see my mother like that...it made me feel...it made me wonder why I wasn't crying like her too. But I didn't really know my grandmother that well. My memories are faint, I was still rather young at that age around 10ish.

My mother did have a very strong tie with her mother. I could see the differences between her and her siblings. Her siblings mostly waited like our father made us wait to go to Mexico.

Now, If it was me, but I don't like to think about it, and something was to happen to my mother be it an accident or because of age. I would propably react the same way she reacted with her mother. This is the woman, I respect and love the most in this world. She raised me, taught me, she is always there for me. I can find a new job, but I would never be able to obtain any other moments with her. I'd want to make her feel as comfortable as possible. I'd never concider a "home" for her other than in mine.

I wouldn't react the same it it was my father. He could be dead right now and it wouldn't make much of a difference.

I don't think the "others" are necessaraly bad people though. That time the "few" set appart doesnt make them more "caring" than the others it just means they had a stronger tie with said relative. Perhaps the others didn't have a very nice childhood with them. Perhaps the persons who don't have visitors never bothered to care either.

If someone has ties, they will be there.
 
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