Fe/Fi: Pandora's Box?

[Tamagochi]

I'm wondering how it whould be to meet an INFP. I think there will be not much conversation. I think we will stare at eachother and know we are the same. I think I will see a firm closed person, but when I look sharper, I will see this sensitive but oh so gentle and carring inside that will stream outside when I switch the right buttons.

Might be

With INFJs and ENFJs I can chat for hours. There never seems to be a shortage of words with them.

But I wonder how does discussing these topics here make you feel? After all we're putting our internal workings on display and compare them. Fi should be at least a bit uncomfortable with it.

 

[Morgain]

Might be

With INFJs and ENFJs I can chat for hours. There never seems to be a shortage of words with them.

But I wonder how does discussing these topics here make you feel? After all we're putting our internal workings on display and compare them. Fi should be at least a bit uncomfortable with it.

It is in writing and anonymous, so I have no problem at all. Making that video makes me very uncomfortable and talking to someone in person too. I'm always afraid of the reactions if I reveal myself to someone I know in person. How it will effect the way they see me. And when someone reaches out with there feeling to close to me (like the INFJ women in the video you have posted) or worse when they pine down my weaknesses, I shut down or become defensing.
It is difficult to describe myself when I'm with someone in person. It is hard to keep in touch with myself when I'm talking with someone intimately. It is as if my memory is written in emotions. I can't tell you who I am by just describing myself with words. "who I am" is a feeling, I need to be in touch with that feeling to be able to describe it. Words are meaningless without the feeling behind it.

I am an alien :fear::becky:

this is just blurting out of me. It is not I had formed a theory of. I used to deal with the world with my mind. I have tried very hard to catch reality in a elegant theory, until something clicked in my head and I started to view it from the feeling side. And I never regreted that


How is it that you describe yourself to an other person? Is that a definition, a collection of words, a metaphor, a feeling, ...? And how does your memory database look like? :becky:

 

[Morgain]

Not entirely, but in some sense yeah. I can get easily carried away with overwhelming personalities, not knowing where i begin and one person ends, shaping myself to what is expected. This leads to people pleasing or overemphasis on Fe to the detriment of Fi. Another thing i find with myself, is that i tend to be more subdued in social/public setting because i don't want to overwhelm anyone with how intense i can be. Although i appear fairly calm and relaxed online and in public/social settings, i wasn't always this way of course. We can't always act on impulse and feeling in any case.

I was extremely focused on Fi early on and didn't value Fe as much, but now i recognize the importance of developing Fe, as my profession requires it, but i've also learned to value Fi, as a way of understanding who i am and what i need as a person.

So would you say that Fi is more your basis "function" and that you use Fe deliberately in social situations?

I think it is a very good idea to develop Fe but not leaving Fi out of side. Fe is such I beautiful skill and very helpful in human relations!

Right now I'm in a very introverted mood. Fall is for me a period of introspection and redefining my values, or something like that. I think I can say I use Fe more in spring and summer.

 

[VH]

Something to note about the descriptions of Fi, and especially Fe...

Most of the 'research' done on these two functions comes through the filter of S types, which skews the perspective for these functions toward Se and Si.

The NFP population is roughly 10%, so there is a fair amount of Fi input when paired with Ne, but most Fi dominant (and secondary) users are SFPs. Keep that in mind when considering the descriptions of Fi. There is usually a bias toward Se thinking when it is presented, but from what I've read Fi is fairly well represented as a unique function unto itself.

However, the NFJ population is less than 2%, while the SFJ population is close to 25%. The vast majority of input on the subject of Fe comes from Si users. The notions that Fe tends toward politenesses, social contract, and emotional currency come from this pairing of Fe with Si - which is a very 'conventional' function. Si likes tradtion, repitition, and rote. For an Si user, Fe manifests through such practices.

However, Ni users are nearly the exact opposite. We have little use for tradtion, repitition, and rote. We see the hidden patterns, focus on the unknown, and are looking to the future so intently we often fail to notice the present. Ni and Fe users do not focus nearly as heavily on social ritual as we do the actual needs of other individuals.

For example, SFJs prefer to engage in "Good morning, <person's name>. How are you today?" "I am fine. How are you, <person's name>?" "very good, thank you (even if they're not). How did <remembered detail that was of concern to the person they're talking to> go?" "Quite well, thank you. How is <returned detail of concern to the person they're talking to> going?" etc. The SFJs are showing concern for one another by walking through an expected social rote, asking about details of concern to the person they are speaking to show that they care (this is an example of social currency), while minimizing (or outright denying) their own hardships so as to not upset others.

Meanwhile, NFJs tend to prefer to handle the same situation differently. Before any words are exchanged, the NFJs are reading each other for the answers to the following - How is the other person feeling? Are they alright? Is there anything to be concerned about? Are they busy? What is the best way to approach them at this moment? We're amazingly adept at detecting these things in others, and in exponential proportion to how well we know the person in question. Once we determine this, our social interaction follows suit, but is always situational to the factors we've determined. For example, if we determine someone is busy, we smile at them and leave them to their attention. If we see that someone is in need of warmth, we show it to them in as sincere a way as we can, which only includes social conventions when we know that person needs them.

Fe's motivations are the same - concern for and caring about others -, regardless if it is paired with Si or Ni. However, it manifests very differently because of the perspectives of Si or Ni.

But, there is another aspect to Fe that is lost in most of the descriptions I've read...

More than a concern for others, which is just a side effect, the true nature of Fe is that Fe is philosophical reasoning. (While Fi is abstract reasoning.)

Fe is right brained reasoning, with an external focus. (Where Fi is right brained reasoning with an internal focus.)

Fe is the clear sense of knowing how you feel things should be, and what others want. Fe feels that this should be this way, and that should be that way. (Fi is a clear sense of how you feel you should be, and what you want for yourself.)

Fe is the sense of right and wrong. (Where as Fi is the sense of good and bad.)

 

[Gaze]

So would you say that Fi is more your basis "function" and that you use Fe deliberately in social situations?

Yes.

 

[Tamagochi]

It is as if my memory is written in emotions. I can't tell you who I am by just describing myself with words. "who I am" is a feeling, I need to be in touch with that feeling to be able to describe it. Words are meaningless without the feeling behind it.


How is it that you describe yourself to an other person? Is that a definition, a collection of words, a metaphor, a feeling, ...? And how does your memory database look like? :becky:

like SQL Server 2008 Enterprise Edition with 16 GB of RAM...
j/k

Anyway I get your description as it's very similar to how I've felt before. Being one with the feeling, becoming it yourself. It's alive and ever-changing so it can't be really put down to words. Any attempt is just a shadow.

As I've gained more mastery on Fe, another way of describing myself has emerged - being a part of a greater whole. A total sum of experiences in which I'm perceived by other people. It's much more objective and concrete than internal feelings.

All in all I like to keep balance between those two: I'm both a feeling and a connection. Though the latter part is my favorite now. As I look back to my past experience it indeed feels like what I've considered Fi was Fe mixed with Ni. Otherwise it would be hard for me to explain why every time I've found myself in intimate connection with another person I tended to loose my connection to self. To the point that I was afraid of dating

 

[enfp can be shy]

like SQL Server 2008 Enterprise Edition with 16 GB of RAM...
j/k

I would describe my Ne like that. Add a few 100-terabyte tapes for slower linear access of less frequently used backup information.

 

[Morgain]

As I've gained more mastery on Fe, another way of describing myself has emerged - being a part of a greater whole. A total sum of experiences in which I'm perceived by other people. It's much more objective and concrete than internal feelings.

All in all I like to keep balance between those two: I'm both a feeling and a connection. Though the latter part is my favorite now. As I look back to my past experience it indeed feels like what I've considered Fi was Fe mixed with Ni. Otherwise it would be hard for me to explain why every time I've found myself in intimate connection with another person I tended to loose my connection to self. To the point that I was afraid of dating

so your description of yourself according to Fe would tell who you are relating to other people, how you behave when interacting with people?
I can do that to, and I do that a lot when I'm with people. But I would never concider that the whole picture. It is more the upper most layer of who I am :becky:

 

[Blind Bandit]

Something to note about the descriptions of Fi, and especially Fe...

Most of the 'research' done on these two functions comes through the filter of S types, which skews the perspective for these functions toward Se and Si.

The NFP population is roughly 10%, so there is a fair amount of Fi input when paired with Ne, but most Fi dominant (and secondary) users are SFPs. Keep that in mind when considering the descriptions of Fi. There is usually a bias toward Se thinking when it is presented, but from what I've read Fi is fairly well represented as a unique function unto itself.

However, the NFJ population is less than 2%, while the SFJ population is close to 25%. The vast majority of input on the subject of Fe comes from Si users. The notions that Fe tends toward politenesses, social contract, and emotional currency come from this pairing of Fe with Si - which is a very 'conventional' function. Si likes tradtion, repitition, and rote. For an Si user, Fe manifests through such practices.

However, Ni users are nearly the exact opposite. We have little use for tradtion, repitition, and rote. We see the hidden patterns, focus on the unknown, and are looking to the future so intently we often fail to notice the present. Ni and Fe users do not focus nearly as heavily on social ritual as we do the actual needs of other individuals.

For example, SFJs prefer to engage in "Good morning, <person's name>. How are you today?" "I am fine. How are you, <person's name>?" "very good, thank you (even if they're not). How did <remembered detail that was of concern to the person they're talking to> go?" "Quite well, thank you. How is <returned detail of concern to the person they're talking to> going?" etc. The SFJs are showing concern for one another by walking through an expected social rote, asking about details of concern to the person they are speaking to show that they care (this is an example of social currency), while minimizing (or outright denying) their own hardships so as to not upset others.

Meanwhile, NFJs tend to prefer to handle the same situation differently. Before any words are exchanged, the NFJs are reading each other for the answers to the following - How is the other person feeling? Are they alright? Is there anything to be concerned about? Are they busy? What is the best way to approach them at this moment? We're amazingly adept at detecting these things in others, and in exponential proportion to how well we know the person in question. Once we determine this, our social interaction follows suit, but is always situational to the factors we've determined. For example, if we determine someone is busy, we smile at them and leave them to their attention. If we see that someone is in need of warmth, we show it to them in as sincere a way as we can, which only includes social conventions when we know that person needs them.

Fe's motivations are the same - concern for and caring about others -, regardless if it is paired with Si or Ni. However, it manifests very differently because of the perspectives of Si or Ni.

But, there is another aspect to Fe that is lost in most of the descriptions I've read...

More than a concern for others, which is just a side effect, the true nature of Fe is that Fe is philosophical reasoning. (While Fi is abstract reasoning.)

Fe is right brained reasoning, with an external focus. (Where Fi is right brained reasoning with an internal focus.)

Fe is the clear sense of knowing how you feel things should be, and what others want. Fe feels that this should be this way, and that should be that way. (Fi is a clear sense of how you feel you should be, and what you want for yourself.)

Fe is the sense of right and wrong. (Where as Fi is the sense of good and bad.)

Great description as always Von.

One thing I want to add about Si is such a conservative function that I've seen it really color Fe.

For example Von mentioned the need for expected social roles. SFJs will do this to a fault and will unload on anyone who doesn't follow suit. Fe also can appear extremely manipulative in SFJ's. And from what I've seen Si tends to stunt Fe in the philosophical sense. Si is so past focused, and unwilling to question the ordered way it really makes Fe take a back seat.

In short SFJ's And NFJ's from my experience often don't see eye to eye. Even sharing Fe the Si vs. Ni divide is usually too strong.

 

[mooseman]

For example, SFJs prefer to engage in "Good morning, <person's name>. How are you today?" "I am fine. How are you, <person's name>?" "very good, thank you (even if they're not). How did <remembered detail that was of concern to the person they're talking to> go?" "Quite well, thank you. How is <returned detail of concern to the person they're talking to> going?" etc. The SFJs are showing concern for one another by walking through an expected social rote, asking about details of concern to the person they are speaking to show that they care (this is an example of social currency), while minimizing (or outright denying) their own hardships so as to not upset others.

This is exactly my ex girlfriend. (ESFJ)

Meanwhile, NFJs tend to prefer to handle the same situation differently. Before any words are exchanged, the NFJs are reading each other for the answers to the following - How is the other person feeling? Are they alright? Is there anything to be concerned about? Are they busy? What is the best way to approach them at this moment? We're amazingly adept at detecting these things in others, and in exponential proportion to how well we know the person in question. Once we determine this, our social interaction follows suit, but is always situational to the factors we've determined. For example, if we determine someone is busy, we smile at them and leave them to their attention. If we see that someone is in need of warmth, we show it to them in as sincere a way as we can, which only includes social conventions when we know that person needs them.

And this is me.

Thank you Von Hase for this very clear explanation. This was valuable for me to get an understanding of.

*ding* Level up!

Edit:
She always did this polite walkthrough with me every time we saw each other and after a while I almost started to think "Why does she keep treating me like a stranger?" I, on the other hand stopped doing it as soon as I started to feel really comfortable with her. I think I expected her to understand it as a sign of me feeling close to her. I can imagine now that she was wondering "Doesn't he care about what is going on in my life anymore?", which of course couldn't be further from the truth.

 

[Morgain]

one of my bosses, he can nail peoples character down with one word and he can predict how someone will react in a certain situation, and it is pretty accurate. I on the other hand have a certain feeling about a person, I feel differences in acting in different situations, but I can't put words on it. For example, I noticed a few weeks ago that a colleague of mine has changed in a certain way, she suddenly was softer and more gentle. I didn't go into that because i thought I was mistaken. But now she told us that she is expecting a baby. So that could perfecly explain the change I have noticed in her a few weeks ago. But I can't go to her and ask her about it, because I'm not sure about what I feel.

One of the reasons I think I don't like to dig into other peoples problems, is because I'll start to feel what they feel. Especially when it is a feeling I have problems with, like uncertainty, anxiety, stress, even fysical pain. I don't know weither it is there real feeling or weither I imagine it...

 

[Gaze]

One of the reasons I think I don't like to dig into other peoples problems, is because I'll start to feel what they feel. Especially when it is a feeling I have problems with, like uncertainty, anxiety, stress, even fysical pain. I don't know weither it is there real feeling or weither I imagine it...

I think i experience this as well. Part of it is empathy, feeling what others feel, which can strongly impact the way you feel, causing you to take on someone else feelings and emotions as your own. It can make it very difficult to know where someone's feelings end and yours begin.