Fi and authenticity

Aaron Thyne said:
All of them make decisions based on whether it "feels right". And all of them have admitted that they are "absolute" in their moral judgements.
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Wyote said:
NFs are susceptible to quackery.
But most learn not to fall into the same traps, with time.
It's tough to differentiate between beneficial quackery and harmful quackery.
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I think that this is true of NTs as well. A lot of so called rational thought is based on axiomatic convictions held with an almost religious fervour and it’s impossible to shift many NTs off these by rational persuasion. They are protected by a dense cloud of shadow Fi in some NTs. Again there may be sensible premises, but some folks have nonsensical ones.
 
John K said:
I think that this is true of NTs as well. A lot of so called rational thought is based on axiomatic convictions held with an almost religious fervour and it’s impossible to shift many NTs off these by rational persuasion. They are protected by a dense cloud of shadow Fi in some NTs. Again there may be sensible premises, but some folks have nonsensical ones.
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Yup, this is definitely true. This kind of 'extremism' applies to the introverted functions though, not the extroverted ones. Also, I think that moral absolutism is prone to actual extremism unlike logical absolutism because morality is literally about what is permissible, and what is not.
 
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John K said:
I think that this is true of NTs as well. A lot of so called rational thought is based on axiomatic convictions held with an almost religious fervour and it’s impossible to shift many NTs off these by rational persuasion. They are protected by a dense cloud of shadow Fi in some NTs. Again there may be sensible premises, but some folks have nonsensical ones.
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You're right, I just didn't know how to articulate the other side, as you've done so nicely! I also imagine all other types being susceptible, though the means of indoctrination or "path of destruction" (lol) is foriegn to me.
 
Aaron Thyne said:
Also, I think that moral absolutism is prone to actually extremism unlike logical absolutism since morality is literally about what is permissible, and what is not.
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I think it’s just that NT fanaticism takes a different form. We see it, for example, in dogmatic adherence to a perspective that is untenable. This is extremely damaging when it happens in science - Wegener’s theory of continental drift is an example of an idea that was rejected initially on such irrational grounds. It’s quite likely that similar forces are acting in modern cosmological or climate theory - there is a lack of scientific open mindedness in such areas that’s dogmatic rather than rational. I’m saying nothing about the truth or otherwise of the prevailing ideas, but thinking of the way they are held and championed, the way they determine research funding priorities, and the way that alternative viewpoints are shouted down, or frozen out, more than debated.
 
Wyote said:
You're right, I just didn't know how to articulate the other side, as you've done so nicely! I also imagine all other types being susceptible, though the means of indoctrination or "path of destruction" (lol) is foriegn to me.
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I’m sure that’s very much so - I suspect the problems we’ve just been talking about are to do with IN rather than F or T. I have no real feel for the S or the E equivalents but they must be there.
 
Speaking as an INTP I usually take time to research etc, but once I decide on something, I definitely show that religious fervour that John is talking about.

I am also surprised how strongly I feel about this whole police brutality issue. I had to stop myself from snapping against people who disagree with me a few times on this forum.

I actually embrace this, it makes me feel more alive.
 
Aaron Thyne said:
I've found the scariest people I know are male Fi doms. Especially the INFP men. They scare me so so much. One of them joined a cult to "sanctify" his soul. Another talked about dropping a nuke on America because "everyone is complicit: nobody is innocent". Yet another literally worships his own values by keeping a blog about them, sending it out to people and then scolding anyone that doesn't recognize his "superiority".

All of them make decisions based on whether it "feels right". And all of them have admitted that they are "absolute" in their moral judgements. Its scary because these men remind me of zealots and extremists. In fact, that's what they are, and its impossible to change them. I'm not saying all INFP's are like this, but the ones I know are.
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The scariest for me is the group thinkers that take up ideologies then fallow through with religious fever often coupled with worship of someone or a small group of individuals held in high esteem like idols of old in high places particularly political figures and celebrities. I have observed some of the same as you have seen myself elsewhere and there is really nothing one can do to reach through beyond the usual shock treatment and using their own reasoning against them they will just double down continuing on as if nothing ever happened.
 
philostam said:
Speaking as an INTP I usually take time to research etc, but once I decide on something, I definitely show that religious fervour that John is talking about.

I am also surprised how strongly I feel about this whole police brutality issue. I had to stop myself from snapping against people who disagree with me a few times on this forum.

I actually embrace this, it makes me feel more alive.
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Yeah there's a Ti-Fe duality at play here, as I've noticed it in several INTPs. When a piece finally falls into place in our brains, it's there forever, potentially. However, our inferior Fe may prevent us from accepting other viewpoints out of politeness, and we potentially can even become emotionally fueled by opposition to what we pride as correctness.

I've had the good fortune to be very good friends with several INTPs over the course of my life, and I've realized that a small group of INTPs that agree with each other is a very fun time (Ne hilarity ensues), but when INTPs disagree (which will happen often due to the ultimate subjectivity of our logical frameworks), it can be an absolute bloodbath.

A lot of the behaviors people here are projecting on Fi-doms are true of other types as well, though the mechanisms/background behind those may be different.
 
noisebloom said:
Yeah there's a Ti-Fe duality at play here, as I've noticed it in several INTPs. When a piece finally falls into place in our brains, it's there forever, potentially. However, our inferior Fe may prevent us from accepting other viewpoints out of politeness, and we potentially can even become emotionally fueled by opposition to what we pride as correctness.

I've had the good fortune to be very good friends with several INTPs over the course of my life, and I've realized that a small group of INTPs that agree with each other is a very fun time (Ne hilarity ensues), but when INTPs disagree (which will happen often due to the ultimate subjectivity of our logical frameworks), it can be an absolute bloodbath.

A lot of the behaviors people here are projecting on Fi-doms are true of other types as well, though the mechanisms/background behind those may be different.
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Yeah, I kinda agree with this.

I think ENTJ might be the most objective and impartial type, if such a thing even exists. They don't get attached to their theories (Ti), values (Fi) or traditions (Si).
 
philostam said:
I think ENTJ might be the most objective and impartial type, if such a thing even exists. They don't get attached to their theories (Ti), values (Fi) or traditions (Si).
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Well, since everyone else in this thread is calling out types for being akin to mass murderers, psychopaths, etc., my two cents is that an ENTJ's inferior Fi is scary as shit. There are underlying personal beliefs that tend to steer their "objectivity", which can mean that they may prefer peer-reviewed sources that align closely with their values, may subconsciously discount studies that they find offensive under the guise of some other empirical flaw, etc.

ALL HUMAN BEINGS SUCK
 
noisebloom said:
Well, since everyone else in this thread is calling out types for being akin to mass murderers, psychopaths, etc., my two cents is that an ENTJ's inferior Fi is scary as shit. There are underlying personal beliefs that tend to steer their "objectivity"
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I'm watching Death Note at the moment and am seriously under the impression that the main character is such an ENTJ :grimacing:
 
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