Fickle affections

Odyne said:
Also, I am not so much open about myself, and I am more focused on other people when I am with people, so how the hell do you know that it is ME who you want, when I know that you haven't spent enough time trying to know me.
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OMG!!! This^^^ is exactly what i'm talking about. When i'm with people, especially if i don't know someone very well or i'm new to the situation, i'm definitely more Fe, not so much Fi. So, in that case, if you're attracted me while i'm in that state, then it means you're attracted to a persona or what i can give you in that moment - whether it's attention, etc. BUT it isn't me. People confuse the two so much it's not even funny.
 
What I want to know is how the hell you women know yourselves so well in the first place??

I can't figure myself out to save my life! :m075:
 
What I'd like to know is how I can get to know a girl better without it HAVING to become something.
 
Wyst said:
What I'd like to know is how I can get to know a girl better without it HAVING to become something.
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Take the risk, and allow them see you. Risk being vulnerable, and allow people to get to know the real you, even if it is the scariest thing ever.
 
I was thinking about it.

The key is to set up some buffer space, no expectations. A space where both parties are at ease. And undoubtedly both sides are analyzing to some extent, but it is like you have to put aside judgement for a period.

Both sides need to neutralize with one another. When this occurs, then portions of the 'real self' start to bleed into that neutral space, but it takes time, because it is restricted. I am the same way.

For me, it is about understanding how to set up and maintain that neutral space. It is ok not to judge, ok not to be searching for something. It is about enjoying your time regardless of your company, because you are neutral.

Sometimes those colors that bleed through of true selves make a lovely portrait, sometimes they blur into a complete mess.

But there has to be some level of attraction, not necessarily romantic, to pull the two together long enough to establish some sort of neutral playing field. So sometimes it is about finding patience to notice the initial attraction then let it go in order to allow things to take their course.

Does that make any sense?
 
NeverAmI said:
I was thinking about it.

The key is to set up some buffer space, no expectations. A space where both parties are at ease. And undoubtedly both sides are analyzing to some extent, but it is like you have to put aside judgement for a period.

Both sides need to neutralize with one another. When this occurs, then portions of the 'real self' start to bleed into that neutral space, but it takes time, because it is restricted. I am the same way.

For me, it is about understanding how to set up and maintain that neutral space. It is ok not to judge, ok not to be searching for something. It is about enjoying your time regardless of your company, because you are neutral.

Sometimes those colors that bleed through of true selves make a lovely portrait, sometimes they blur into a complete mess.

But there has to be some level of attraction, not necessarily romantic, to pull the two together long enough to establish some sort of neutral playing field. So sometimes it is about finding patience to notice the initial attraction then let it go in order to allow things to take their course.

Does that make any sense?
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This^.
 
Ok, so if that makes sense, according to that framework I have a hard time setting up the neutral space. I have a hard enough time with that by myself, let alone another person. I think patience and acceptance play a big part in that formation.

A lot of times people call that neutral space common ground, but it is so much more. Common ground (common interest) gives that initial spark, but it isn't about creating a spark, it is about taking that spark and turning it into a sustained source of neutrality, it isn't fire, it isn't even hot, it is merely warm. Putting someone at ease is nearly impossible if you aren't at ease yourself, I think Wyst and I may realize this and so we say "How the hell can I put myself at ease?" It really does require a fairly significant change from our standard thought patterns.

Sometimes true selves are exposed out of chance, I think in many crises you see that, and it is fairly common for romantic interests to form (at least temporarily) between people that have been through rough situations together.

But the art of setting this stage to present yourself, and to show your true colors is so subtle, so complex, and so far from the norm for myself that I am unsure if it is something I could ever master.

It is obvious we want to master it, because it has use in all kinds of interpersonal situations, but it's about dedicating yourself to social interaction.
 
I think confidence and nonchalance show that someone is fairly adept at performing that task.

I can do alright for setting a neutral stage when I have an audience, but when things are just one on one I get lost. I don't know what to do! There is only one person to cater towards, and I supose I find that overwhelming, because I can't seem to just let all of that go.

That really doesn't even have anything to do with gender, that is more just me overall, with anyone in a one-on-one situation.

But, when someone is extraverted enough that they set up that space on their own, then I stick with it, and become comfortable enough over time. So here I sit, waiting for someone else to do my work for me. It is kind of embarassing, but also interesting to ponder.
 
Hmm. I'm going to have to 'marinate' on this for a while. I've found that common ground with someone. I've found that common ground with other people before too. I've gotten excited about it, started thinking maybe something could happen, but have always been disappointed.

So now that I've found myself thinking, 'Ah, this person gets me!' My knee-jerk reaction is to think, 'Nooo noo no, this has happened before... it's just your imagination.'

So perhaps I've either not given it enough time for us to be neutral towards each other to let our common ground truly solidify before I start the chase OR once I've begun the chase, I don't really give it enough time before I bail because I'm not convinced I'm truly invested.

P.S. I suck at confidence and nonchalance one on one.
 
Wyst said:
Hmm. I'm going to have to 'marinate' on this for a while. I've found that common ground with someone. I've found that common ground with other people before too. I've gotten excited about it, started thinking maybe something could happen, but have always been disappointed.

So now that I've found myself thinking, 'Ah, this person gets me!' My knee-jerk reaction is to think, 'Nooo noo no, this has happened before... it's just your imagination.'

So perhaps I've either not given it enough time for us to be neutral towards each other to let our common ground truly solidify before I start the chase OR once I've begun the chase, I don't really give it enough time before I bail because I'm not convinced I'm truly invested.

P.S. I suck at confidence and nonchalance one on one.
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Hmm, you might want to consider another criteria to forming relationships than just "this person gets me". During your life, you'll meet people who will "get you". You will always find a common ground with someone somehow, and as empathetic creatures, we will be able to find a lot of similarities with others. Perhaps, that's how we are cheated by our own feelings that something significant might happen with this person, because we are always longing for understanding by others, yet we are the one's providing it.

And when you realize that this isn't what you wanted or what you thought it would be, you are dejected by disappointment.

It is best to have a certain quality in mind other than mere "understanding" when you are looking for a relationship. This way you'll have something to keep the relationship going rather than it being stuck in stagnation.

I don't know if this helps you somehow. I built it on my perception of relationships. There has to be growth and challenge, understanding is just not enough I find.

It is important for some people, and not so important for others. I don't know, it depends on the person you're chasing after or have interest in.
 
Odyne raises some good points, in that getting someone that isn't a mirror image will spur growth, and prevent placid waters. A little change is a good thing, and if soemone is fundamentally different, that isn't a bad thing.

I think it is about having differences, appreciating them, and finding acceptance for one another despite occasional clashes. The trait you find repuslive one day could become the one you love the next with a little acceptance.

On the other hand, I understand Wyst's desire to be accepted, even if they don't completely understand. After all, a little mystery is a good thing. :D


Probably the best approach is just not to have any inherent expectations. After all, you might find something great that you never knew existed. Chase the unknown.


*reminds himself to follow his own advice*
 
Odyne said:
Hmm, you might want to consider another criteria to forming relationships than just "this person gets me". During your life, you'll meet people who will "get you". You will always find a common ground with someone somehow, and as empathetic creatures, we will be able to find a lot of similarities with others. Perhaps, that's how we are cheated by our own feelings that something significant might happen with this person, because we are always longing for understanding by others, yet we are the one's providing it.

And when you realize that this isn't what you wanted or what you thought it would be, you are dejected by disappointment.
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*sniff* This is exactly why I started this thread; to avoid THIS!!

:m142:

Good advice - I'll try to follow it but without much dating experience, it's like high-level geometry to me...
 
Wyst said:
*sniff* This is exactly why I started this thread; to avoid THIS!!

:m142:

Good advice - I'll try to follow it but without much dating experience, it's like high-level geometry to me...
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Focus more on accepting the other person than on being accepted? If you try it, let me know what happens.
 
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