First Signs of Something Wrong

[acd]

When things seem too good to be true, it is because they are. Sounds cliche, but looking back, it's usually been the case for why I've gotten into problematic situations--there were always questions I never asked about the other party's motives.

 

[Trifoilum]

Well it's a natural reaction to question whether you'll be believed or not, with the way that things are being described, especially with what Flavus Aquila said.

Interesting perspective. I don't know whether it's good or bad; but natural?

Suspicion harbors discord, and you may start wondering who is suspicious of you, and if you don't trust it's easy to find things wrong. This is why I usually give people the benefit of doubt until something actually becomes clear, or unless the situation has some actual risk.

Suspicion is a nasty thing. It will cause people to flip on you, or even to throw somebody else under the bus to get attention off themselves. People can start doing even more rotten things to improve your view of them. Because of this I figure that if you know you are true then it doesn't really matter what anyone thinks.

Yes, it's a rolling snowball of paranoia and anxiety and people pleasing and stuff.
At the same time, I can see giving people the benefit of doubt as...something sort of 'ignoring' the problem.

But I agreed regardless. When suspicion strikes, every move means playing the game regardless.

 

[Trifoilum]

Yeah. Wondering can cause craziness and paranoia too, though.

I some times wonder, what's the point of being safe if accomplishing it puts you into paranoid misery? I've been there where I don't trust anyone and after a while it gets old. Yeah I'm protecting myself, but what kind of life do I have as a result?

Good question!

It's not exactly the kind of safety that's...ideal, isn't it? safety that's born by mistrust and anxiety and paranoia.
To some point that is different than being careful and mindful....so is to some point certain anxiety masqueraded itself as carefulness.

On the other hand, I also want to be careful. I learned that I do have a right to protect myself and not be so open all the time. What I find problematic is too often, people want you to be open and reveal yourself to them.

And yes. I too feel like it's a right to reveal yourself on your terms (and assuming it was truthful...).
But as I'd wondered in the other thread, sometimes rejection can jolt you back as well.
The difference between being careful as a defense mechanism and being careful as a political/social maneuver....that might be interesting.

One thing I am remembering is that-- well, I think we tend to be careful because we don't want our weaknesses to be exploited.
And at the same time-- if we reveal our weakness open and proud-- few could really damage us.
But at the same time-- it does not mean people won't attack us.
Sorry, a bit random?

People have done it here where they keep expecting you to share personal things about you, and let them in so to speak but they don't know what they are asking. For one, it assumes that you owe your privacy. It also implies you have an obligation to be an open book to them just because they are curious. They don't consider the consequences of their expectations.

And sometimes, they don't understand it's also a matter of boundaries.

I understand this. I admit I might have been on the other side too often (mostly because I don't mind talking / revealing most parts of me), but yes; our burdens are no one else's obligation but your own.

I think a lot of people 'wants' to be helpful.... ? Like, tell me your life stories and burdens so that I could help you! kind of feel,
but a lot of times people are not that altruistic :| the motives tend to be somewhat impure, if not self-serving (let me find our similarities so that I could talk about myself)

but when trust is broken, you're not going to be as "here I am!" anymore. You're going to be more cautious and careful. I think when you realize you're one of the few if not the only one who is not in on whatever is happening and that you maybe the joke behind everyone's back, you lose interest in being seen as being in on anything. You don't care as much about being open anymore. You feel less obligated to explain your right to protect yourself. Too many people have taken liberties with openness, so yeah, I stay away. Too much abuse. No thanks.

..*hugs* I know the feeling. The choking feeling.
For me it becomes an urge to push myself forward; to stick with the group just so THEY CAN SEE HOW I AM.
Or, at the same time, to participate in those things; a self preservation kind of thing-- people won't talk about you when you're in the room (whether literally or metaphorically), and if they do-- then you have truly done something wrong.

It's....not nice, honestly. I JUST DID THAT AND THAT IS NOT NICE *screams to self*

*hugs again*

 

[Trifoilum]

If a person can't actually harm me then there's no need to worry about their demands. If they can and would harm me then they aren't a person worth having around to begin with, which reflects more on them than it does on me. If we're meant to hang out and be close then I'll find out about it.

I let in who I want, and I'm either not concerned about losing anything or am willing to lose everything. Some times it's about risk vs reward and just throwing everything to the wind, because really, what can I do?

That is an interesting perspective. And-- yeah, I realize and acknowledge that having a particular intention towards someone (whether good or bad, really) will alter how you act around them.

People have a tendency to paint a picture at the drop of a hat. Some pictures are down right beautiful. However, some pictures seem a little dark with things I cannot interpret.

Some folk would be better off in a business deal if they just kept their mouth shut. When they start jumping to conclusions and trying to accuse you of things you cannot believe, it is time to just end the deal before the really true colors come out.

That's an excellent way to put the idea across.
Sometimes people are honest, and they have no particular intentions towards you. Their presence were completely their own-- they are there because they enjoy -you-. That is very, very fine.
Other times people...aren't.
Maybe it's the colors they used-- maybe they are simply not the same. That is also fine-- we cannot please everyone.
But sometimes it's not. Sometimes people are dishonest. Sometimes, they are honest-- but they also want something from you. Sometimes they want something from you and they will charm, lie, deceive, and kick others down for that.

I sometimes think that having intentions -- particularly secret, untold ones-- will influence how you come across towards others.

Everyone is different and everyone needs someone or something. When we get too big to know how to perceive this and react accordingly, how are we so different?

...good question.

 

[Quiet]

The first sign of something wrong is when you think there is something wrong. It is irrelevant what the other person's intentions are or what the situation is. If you think there is something wrong, there is something wrong because that is how you are percieving the situation, and most likely, interacting with and engaging that situation.

I dont really question peoples intentions. I question my own a lot. Most of the time other's intentions seem more or less clear. Sometimes they simply make no sense. Sometimes i have misjudged others intentions. When they are negative, they are always based on fear and ignorance. having something to sell, to fill a lack, reduce fear. And then its a matter of choosing how to deal or not deal with that. In the end, ive decided that it just doesnt matter. As long as i understand my own intentions, i dont need to worry about other peoples. I dont think/have never really felt that people want to or can harm me/take advantage of me. There have been times ive been hurt, like metaphorically standing too close to a bomb going off, and being caught in collateral damage. Sometimes always giving someone the benefit of the doubt is what friendship is. And that includes giving someone the benefit of the doubt even when they dont give you the benefit of the doubt.
Anyway, I believe that we are One. And that we project our 'reality'. All people we encounter are aspects of ourself, every encounter is valuable, and potentially healing

 

[Gaze]

Good question!

It's not exactly the kind of safety that's...ideal, isn't it? safety that's born by mistrust and anxiety and paranoia.
To some point that is different than being careful and mindful....so is to some point certain anxiety masqueraded itself as carefulness.


And yes. I too feel like it's a right to reveal yourself on your terms (and assuming it was truthful...).
But as I'd wondered in the other thread, sometimes rejection can jolt you back as well.
The difference between being careful as a defense mechanism and being careful as a political/social maneuver....that might be interesting.

One thing I am remembering is that-- well, I think we tend to be careful because we don't want our weaknesses to be exploited.
And at the same time-- if we reveal our weakness open and proud-- few could really damage us.
But at the same time-- it does not mean people won't attack us.
Sorry, a bit random?



I understand this. I admit I might have been on the other side too often (mostly because I don't mind talking / revealing most parts of me), but yes; our burdens are no one else's obligation but your own.

I think a lot of people 'wants' to be helpful.... ? Like, tell me your life stories and burdens so that I could help you! kind of feel,
but a lot of times people are not that altruistic :| the motives tend to be somewhat impure, if not self-serving (let me find our similarities so that I could talk about myself)



..*hugs* I know the feeling. The choking feeling.
For me it becomes an urge to push myself forward; to stick with the group just so THEY CAN SEE HOW I AM.
Or, at the same time, to participate in those things; a self preservation kind of thing-- people won't talk about you when you're in the room (whether literally or metaphorically), and if they do-- then you have truly done something wrong.

It's....not nice, honestly. I JUST DID THAT AND THAT IS NOT NICE *screams to self*

*hugs again*

thanks but I was simply using my experience as an example. The way I described now seems like a personal issues which should not have been discussed in the thread. Sorry

 

[Trifoilum]

When things seem too good to be true, it is because they are. Sounds cliche, but looking back, it's usually been the case for why I've gotten into problematic situations--there were always questions I never asked about the other party's motives.

I can see the truth in that but-- what is too good to be true? what is 'good' and what is 'true'?

I was going to write an answer but Nixie pretty much nailed it for me.

I have noticed that as I become emotionally healthier and learn more about myself more that I make less time to actively notice these things. I am in a very selfish place in my life right now (over compensating for my early 20's likely) and I just don't make time for anything or anyone that grates me the wrong way. Red flags pop up really easily for me and as soon as they do I immediately dismiss the person I am dealing with. I do find that I alienate people this way but I don't want to help people sort through their own motivations for what they're doing right now.

That's quick, but I do understand where you're coming from.

There is some tendencies to 'not burn any bridges' (or maybe it's just in my family, I dunno), but when I think about it, if the bridges were all like, TROLL-INFESTED, why the hell should I NOT BURN THIS FUCKER UP!?

 

[Trifoilum]

The first sign of something wrong is when you think there is something wrong. It is irrelevant what the other person's intentions are or what the situation is. If you think there is something wrong, there is something wrong because that is how you are percieving the situation, and most likely, interacting with and engaging that situation.

Hah! Good one >A<
Indeed; whether it's obliviousness -or- paranoia, from a certain perspective something is wrong when we say it is.
It's neutral; I think. Not particularly good or bad either way, and they can be both.

I dont really question peoples intentions. I question my own a lot. Most of the time other's intentions seem more or less clear. Sometimes they simply make no sense. Sometimes i have misjudged others intentions. When they are negative, they are always based on fear and ignorance. having something to sell, to fill a lack, reduce fear. And then its a matter of choosing how to deal or not deal with that. In the end, ive decided that it just doesnt matter. As long as i understand my own intentions, i dont need to worry about other peoples. I dont think/have never really felt that people want to or can harm me/take advantage of me. There have been times ive been hurt, like metaphorically standing too close to a bomb going off, and being caught in collateral damage. Sometimes always giving someone the benefit of the doubt is what friendship is. And that includes giving someone the benefit of the doubt even when they dont give you the benefit of the doubt.
Anyway, I believe that we are One. And that we project our 'reality'. All people we encounter are aspects of ourself, every encounter is valuable, and potentially healing

Thanks for telling

I agreed, knowing our own intention makes up more than half of the battle.

thanks but I was simply using my experience as an example. The way I described now seems like a personal issues which should not have been discussed in the thread. Sorry

Why should you say sorry? XDD That's really really alright *hugs*

 

[acd]

I can see the truth in that but-- what is too good to be true? what is 'good' and what is 'true'?


That's quick, but I do understand where you're coming from.

There is some tendencies to 'not burn any bridges' (or maybe it's just in my family, I dunno), but when I think about it, if the bridges were all like, TROLL-INFESTED, why the hell should I NOT BURN THIS FUCKER UP!?

I meant too beneficial for very little cost. There is always cost, things are rarely granted to someone without the other party benefitting from the deal. It depends on how mutually beneficial the deal is, and if the granting party is actually taking advantage of the other.

 

[bagelriffic]

I'm pretty much weary when people offer me just about anything. Sounds paranoid cause it kind of is, I just don't trust people, especially when they have something I want.

 

[JGirl]

I question everything. it's a built in response I've had since I can remember.
most times it serves me well but there are times when I overthink something and come to the wrong idea of what that person intends. then there are those times when the person has no idea what their real intentions are because they've convinced themselves of something else.
does that make sense??

 

[Gaze]

When things seem too good to be true, it is because they are. Sounds cliche, but looking back, it's usually been the case for why I've gotten into problematic situations--there were always questions I never asked about the other party's motives.

Yeah, I've had this issue where I go in all wide eyed and bushy tailed and never thought to guard against motives. You don't expect the person to have an ulterior motive so you don't go in assuming one, only to realize the situation was not as innocent as you thought. And then you wonder, "Why didn't I see that coming?"

 

[just me]

What about first signs something's right? Ever have those? With someone else?
Can someone start a new thread for this? Sorry for stepping into the wrong room.

Actually, after thinking about it; that may be a sign something's wrong.

 

[Trifoilum]

I meant too beneficial for very little cost. There is always cost, things are rarely granted to someone without the other party benefitting from the deal. It depends on how mutually beneficial the deal is, and if the granting party is actually taking advantage of the other.

hmm, so you factor cost / what you're giving to them as well.
what differs a fair friendship to an unfair one, then? Whether the deal is beneficial to both sides or tilted to benefit one party (if not draining the other)?

 

[Trifoilum]

I'm pretty much weary when people offer me just about anything. Sounds paranoid cause it kind of is, I just don't trust people, especially when they have something I want.

Ohh, ohh, this factor! I just realized that yes, this factor influences a lot. Strangely the more I want something from someone, the more distrustful and paranoid I become. I understand controlling, I understand manipulating, I understand anxiety / agitation, but-- distrust?

I suspect the more we want something / we have 'intentions' behind ourselves, the more we can see the same thing towards others-- a sort of projection, if you may.
But at the same time-- the more we want something from others, the more careful we are-- the more we are afraid because we want to GET THAT THING first and a negative intention and/or action could deny us that.

I question everything. it's a built in response I've had since I can remember.
most times it serves me well but there are times when I overthink something and come to the wrong idea of what that person intends. then there are those times when the person has no idea what their real intentions are because they've convinced themselves of something else.
does that make sense??

Yes, that make sense. What you'd described had also happened in my life, I think. With my father for instance, there are times when I overread his intentions and came off thinking he intended for something darker while he..probably just want something simple. But there are also times when he said he want something simple but his actions and reactions and responses sent another message entirely.

So you're someone who questions everything and everyone despite of whether they have any reasons to be questioned?
I too question a lot of things, but I think when my danger alarm rung-- I question that particular aspect very often. I'm looking at myself atm, and yes-- I'm sort of questioning some particular topic a lot.

Yeah, I've had this issue where I go in all wide eyed and bushy tailed and never thought to guard against motives. You don't expect the person to have an ulterior motive so you don't go in assuming one, only to realize the situation was not as innocent as you thought. And then you wonder, "Why didn't I see that coming?"

I usually did that when I don't have attachment. But with an attachment (or God forbid, -intentions-), it's much harder to not guard against other people's motives. I sort of hated it. >_< And the things I'd seen in my paranoia are OFTEN times the truth, but a truth I can live without and/or I can stay away with, only my paranoia brought me closer to it. So instead of bemoaning "why didn't I see it coming?" I'm bemoaning, "WHY DON'T YOU RUN FASTER, SOONER, QUICKER???? WHY MUST YOU BE DRAGGED INTO DRAMA?"

Usually me not guarding brought clarity though; a sort of detachment and distance.

 

[Trifoilum]

What about first signs something's right? Ever have those? With someone else?
Can someone start a new thread for this? Sorry for stepping into the wrong room.

Actually, after thinking about it; that may be a sign something's wrong.

I think we've had that topic a lot? Like, chemistry, or trust, or 'how do you know if someone is your soulmate' kind of topics...? (CMIIW tho)

 

[Gaze]

I usually did that when I don't have attachment. But with an attachment (or God forbid, -intentions-), it's much harder to not guard against other people's motives. I sort of hated it. >_< And the things I'd seen in my paranoia are OFTEN times the truth, but a truth I can live without and/or I can stay away with, only my paranoia brought me closer to it. So instead of bemoaning "why didn't I see it coming?" I'm bemoaning, "WHY DON'T YOU RUN FASTER, SOONER, QUICKER???? WHY MUST YOU BE DRAGGED INTO DRAMA?"

Usually me not guarding brought clarity though; a sort of detachment and distance.

Good point. I've noticed though that even if I know or have a feeling that something may not be what it seems, I still go in expectant and hopeful aka naively, thinking it's not going to be like all the other times. So, when I should run sooner and quicker, I'll still give it a chance. And then I'll still end up being surprised although I know from experience that chances are it's going to disappoint or not what it appears to be. I think the reason is that there's this guilty feeling with prejudging and so you end giving someone the benefit of the doubt even if you have your doubts. Only problem is at some point, if you keep getting stung, it should easier to recognize bee hives. However, it sometimes it seems to take me a few bee stings to figure out that I should stay away.

 

[Trifoilum]

First of all,
http://www.infjs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24906

I'm so fucking stupid. *headdesk* I could have LEARNED.

Good point. I've noticed though that even if I know or have a feeling that something may not be what it seems, I still go in expectant and hopeful aka naively, thinking it's not going to be like all the other times. So, when I should run sooner and quicker, I'll still give it a chance. And then I'll still end up being surprised although I know from experience that chances are it's going to disappoint or not what it appears to be. I think the reason is that there's this guilty feeling with prejudging and so you end giving someone the benefit of the doubt even if you have your doubts. Only problem is at some point, if you keep getting stung, it should easier to recognize bee hives. However, it sometimes it seems to take me a few bee stings to figure out that I should stay away.

and, yes. Hopes and promises can be very, very dangerous. And yes, sometimes our emotions blinded us from what should have been clear and visible. And then we ended up being surprised and sort of blindsided, even when our past selves have predicted this would have happened. *UGH* *points above*
And yes, I think there's a sort of stigma against judging someone and being careful; the same principle that told us to be open to everyone, to be kind...I think sort of serving as a chain, a push towards 'not being secretive'.

 

[SpecialEdition]

I can see the truth in that but-- what is too good to be true? what is 'good' and what is 'true'?


That's quick, but I do understand where you're coming from.

There is some tendencies to 'not burn any bridges' (or maybe it's just in my family, I dunno), but when I think about it, if the bridges were all like, TROLL-INFESTED, why the hell should I NOT BURN THIS FUCKER UP!?

I don't make time for bullshit, whether it's family, friends, professional acquaintances, etc. It gets me into hot water sometimes but I don't mind.

 

[Trifoilum]

I don't make time for bullshit, whether it's family, friends, professional acquaintances, etc. It gets me into hot water sometimes but I don't mind.

That's a commendable attitude. Have you had that moment of "WHEW! I SURE DODGED A BULLET JUST NOW" ?