Gender studies graduate vs high school drop out

Yes [MENTION=7838]SpecialEdition[/MENTION] you have hit on something there, the "Holy Grail" of office warfare true power lies with the individual that controls the thermostat. In some places I have worked the thermostat has been kept under lock and key with only senior management with the right to touch it. Other flashpoints have included control of background music (if any is permitted), size and configuration of the cubicles, control of phones and/or internet access. In many different ways the modern office is insane, forcing people who have otherwise nothing in common to work together for long hours
 
SpecialEdition said:
Whatever one doesn't think air conditioning is sexist.
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I sit very near the thermostat I use all available government funding to keep that ac on full blast. I make up for it in the winter by keeping the heat low.
 
I feel biased in trying to answer this because I'm pretty sure that most people with a gender studies major would hate me if they got to know me or if it was apparent that I'm transgender. Feminist critical theory is not kind to gender variant people.
 
brightmoon said:
Education at its best is training for your mind. Some people don't need or want and do fine without it. But that's not a majority. Some people can learn without formal education but again this not typical. There are exceptions to every rule I suppose.
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You're trying to pass off a subjective opinion as fact here. You may find formal education to be more suited to your type of learning, but do not assume that's the same for everyone.

I've worked with people who were self trained in IT, took technical exams and got the qualifications that led them to break into the industry. I've also worked with those who had a four year degree in computer science and were employed through a graduate program. And in my experience, the self trained ones were better at their job. They were more dedicated, far more interested in expanding on their knowledge base, and were better at dealing with problems they hadn't encountered before.

Of course these might be more "exceptions to the rule", or it could be that formal education is no more valid a method in training the mind as any other.
 
I think people missed my reference about the A/C being sexist. I seem to recall seeing an interview where a woman said that Air Conditioning is sexist and forces women to dress a certain way at work and that women get cold faster so to put the A/C on too high is sexist against all women and favours men. I suppose in a way it favours them considering their attire expectations are more strict in the sense that they are confined to pants and long sleeved shirts and ties in most corporate environments with the exception of casual Fridays.

Anyway. doesn't matter. I wouldn't hire either of them if they didn't have the skills to perform the job.
 
You're trying to pass off a subjective opinion as fact here.
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[MENTION=5667]Jacobi[/MENTION] Maybe. The majority of people go through formal education in a given field for a reason, and I think at least a part of that reason is that it works for a majority of people. Most people respond to the structure, some don't and that's fine, but making the assumption that informal unstructured training is somehow better than formalized learning is also a subjective opinion.
[MENTION=7838]SpecialEdition[/MENTION] Most of the older women I work with want the AC cranked - this place is as cold as meat locker as a result
 
brightmoon said:
[MENTION=5667]Jacobi[/MENTION] Maybe. The majority of people go through formal education in a given field for a reason, and I think at least a part of that reason is that it works for a majority of people. Most people respond to the structure, some don't and that's fine, but making the assumption that informal unstructured training is somehow better than formalized learning is also a subjective opinion.
[MENTION=7838]SpecialEdition[/MENTION] Most of the older women I work with want the AC cranked - this place is as cold as meat locker as a result
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Firstly, I didn't say it was better. I said it was just as valid. Secondly that is a fallacious argument, simply because something is held to be true by the majority does not make it so. And finally, I added "in my opinion", which showed I know it's only my opinion.
 
I'd make them duke it out American Gladiator style and crown the winner.
 
Secondly that is a fallacious argument, simply because something is held to be true by the majority does not make it so
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This is not necessarily a fallacious argument and I did qualify my argument. The formal education was designed to accommodate the majority of learners by many people who have dedicated much study to how people learn, to dismiss it as just as good as ad hoc training, seems like a vast over generalization to me. I would classify your argument for the proposition as an anecdotal fallacy, based on your personal experience, though to fair you did qualify your assertion. I do disagree with the idea that unstructured learning is just as valid as formalized instruction. We should also be making a distinction between education and job training because these are not the same thing. Vocational training prepares you to do a specific job. Education seeks to train your mind. An instructor challenges your assumptions and expands your mind to consider other points of view or other ways of thinking, that is the essence of education. I happen to believe that such an education can be obtained in a gender studies program.

To dismiss the value of such an experience is a demonstration that people these days are highly uninterested in developing critical thinking and more interested in getting a job and moving on with life, in my view.
 
brightmoon said:
This is not necessarily a fallacious argument and I did qualify my argument. The formal education was designed to accommodate the majority of learners by many people who have dedicated much study to how people learn, to dismiss it as just as good as ad hoc training, seems like a vast over generalization to me. I would classify your argument for the proposition as an anecdotal fallacy, based on your personal experience, though to fair you did qualify your assertion. I do disagree with the idea that unstructured learning is just as valid as formalized instruction. We should also be making a distinction between education and job training because these are not the same thing. Vocational training prepares you to do a specific job. Education seeks to train your mind. An instructor challenges your assumptions and expands your mind to consider other points of view or other ways of thinking, that is the essence of education. I happen to believe that such an education can be obtained in a gender studies program.

To dismiss the value of such an experience is a demonstration that people these days are highly uninterested in developing critical thinking and more interested in getting a job and moving on with life, in my view.
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Yet you don't provide any proof towards your argument. You are the one to assert that a formal education is better than informal one. So if my argument is anecdotal, yours is baseless.
 
[MENTION=5667]Jacobi[/MENTION] You assert informal education its just as valid as formal education and provide no proof for that assertion either. For me depends on what you are learning. Informal education as you describe fine for training but if you want to be truly educated and your ideas truly challenged and critical thinking developed, I think that experiencing a method that has worked for thousands of years (called the Socratic Method) where your ideas are challenged and you are forced to defend them, might be worthy of your consideration.
 
brightmoon said:
[MENTION=5667]Jacobi[/MENTION] You assert informal education its just as valid as formal education and provide no proof for that assertion either. For me depends on what you are learning. Informal education as you describe fine for training but if you want to be truly educated and your ideas truly challenged and critical thinking developed, I think that experiencing a method that has worked for thousands of years (called the Socratic Method) where your ideas are challenged and you are forced to defend them, might be worthy of your consideration.
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You are the one who first made the assertion that formal education is the best kind of training for your mind. The burden of proof lies with you.

As I said before it is my opinion that informal education can be just as valid. There are certainly places where in class learning outweighs the benefits of personal education, but I also believe there are plenty of areas where the opposite holds true. You stated an opinion as fact. That is what I take issue with.
 
Jacobi said:
You are the one who first made the assertion that formal education is the best kind of training for your mind. The burden of proof lies with you.

As I said before it is my opinion that informal education can be just as valid. There are certainly places where in class learning outweighs the benefits of personal education, but I also believe there are plenty of areas where the opposite holds true. You stated an opinion as fact. That is what I take issue with.
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My sophisticated opinion is informal education is dope.
 
Although University offers more than a simple degree, including many life experiences tantamount to further progress, I certainly wouldn't want to be indoctrinated by a group of people that think Western patriarchy actually exists. There are many opportunities for academics on these campuses to satisfy such a goal by creating very specific reading lists. Some of them even go as far as to blacklist individual speakers and prevent them from speaking at their University; it is called 'no-platforming'.
 
brightmoon said:
Education at its best is training for your mind. Some people don't need or want and do fine without it. But that's not a majority. Some people can learn without formal education but again this not typical. There are exceptions to every rule I suppose.
[MENTION=13730]PintoBean[/MENTION]

I would not say that. The question is who would you rather hire for a job. Playing the odds I would still choose the person with the most education.
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It really depends on what job. If it is an unskilled labor job and the applicant has a gender studies degree, I would rather have someone with no degree. I would rather have a HS dropout. Why? Because they won't leave at the mere whisper of a job in which they might get their very own cubicle. Anecdotally, in hiring a caregiver for my parents recently I went for 100% for the HS dropouts. And this economy offered me all kinds of people willing to work for $12.00/hr! I know that the person with a Master's in Communications would be gone at the drop of a hat if they ever get something that remotely relates to using their costly (largely useless) degree. The formerly successful singer/songwriter with a BFA in Performing Arts? No way! That person would be gone at the mere whiff of selling a score or getting a gig somewhere else.
 
Yes [MENTION=13730]PintoBean[/MENTION] it does depend the job. I guess dropouts are willing to take crappy jobs because they are desperate. If you are hiring for such a position, and are worried about them leaving, then it might be advantageous to hire someone with little education. Caregiver for your elderly parents? I don't know about that, I think you would be better off to hire someone with some medical training like a PSW or something, but I don't know your circumstance

Personally though I don't think it speaks highly of someone's character when they decide to not finish what they start, so if I was hiring, for whatever position, this would be a consideration , I would want to know why they dropped out to discover if there extenuating circumstances, beyond their control.

I completely disagree with the value judgements being put on education (this degree or that is totally useless). Basically that says unless its a professional degree or training you for a specific job, it's a useless waste of time.
 
I certainly wouldn't want to be indoctrinated by a group of people that think Western patriarchy actually exists
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Okay, but it does exist, this is not indoctrination its just a fact.
 
brightmoon said:
Yes [MENTION=13730]PintoBean[/MENTION] it does depend the job. I guess dropouts are willing to take crappy jobs because they are desperate...
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Sad that you regard caregiving of the infirm and elderly to be a "crappy job." In my view, such service and the people who devote themselves to it, is/are invaluable. If I had more money I would gladly pay way more to all the wonderful people who have helped to care for my parents. They deserve it. And taking money out of the equation, I absolutely wouldn't value someone with a BA or any other 4 year degree over other job candidates. Heart, kindness, compassion, diligence have nothing to do with the title/letters attached to one's name. We have fetishesd the 4 year degree beyond belief. It is just a piece of paper that says you showed up somewhere (or sat at home online) and maybe wrote a few papers.
 
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