Generation Wars

[Wyote]

We did not get bad advice. It was just how things were at the time. Once upon a Time you just needed a degree to get a good job.

Indeed, and once upon another time you didn't even need a degree to make an honest living.

 

[Asa]

We did not get bad advice. It was just how things were at the time. Once upon a Time you just needed a degree to get a good job. It's not like today where a professional license or special degree may be better. Life was different then. Wasn't hard to get a decent-paying job after college. Just that things changed almost overnight such as the economy. Things we deal with today weren't issues then. In many respects, it was a simpler time and life wasn't as hard in some ways as it is today. You didn't need to be rich to have a good life. So, it's a matter perspective. Judging past decades by today's rules and standards doesn't fit. Certain things are going to be harder to understand unless you live through it.

Housing costs and affordability (plus the gap between income and housing) is one of the biggest shifts between generations.

 

[Skarekrow]

Housing costs and affordability (plus the gap between income and housing) is one of the biggest shifts between generations.

Absolutely.
One of the biggest gaps has always been the stagnation of wages since the early 80’s while inflation did a number on education, healthcare, and everything else.
The Boomers got rich gouging the rest of society and kept it for themselves instead of investing in the society from which they benefitted...by the time Gen X was old enough to go to college it was the start of the student loan industry that has landed almost all of the US in debt.
Gen X was told that not going to college was not an option and at that time that was true.
Because of greed though...
Pension plans vanished, retirement plans vanished, the standard of living and pay for the average working American fell immensely...all generations since have been slighted and then told they were lazy and it was their fault and they aren’t working hard enough.
Basically the Boomers did a reverse mortgage on the economy, took or are taking the gains, and are leaving nothing behind but more debt, a lack of opportunity, and a ruinous economy that pays it’s workers starvation wages with benefits no longer there or infinitesimally small.
Roughly 80% of the US population now works paycheck to paycheck.
Exactly why things like government shutdowns can deeply impact, hurt and ruin the lives of those people.
*sigh*

 

[Asa]

@Skarekrow - Yup! All of that.

I remember my alma mater sitting us down at the beginning of the school year and explaining the penalties of failing to pay back our loans, and the stories of how previous generations didn't pay them back were no longer an option.

In the 80s they changed the income percent to qualify for housing (which had been in place since the 40s) from 20 or 25% to 30%. In theory, this could give people with lower incomes more options for housing, but housing costs just went up instead.
In @ 2005 income took a dip, but housing costs kept rising.
I'm not looking this up to verify, which is why I'm not being concrete about stats.

 

[Skarekrow]

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[Skarekrow]

@Skarekrow - Yup! All of that.

I remember my alma mater sitting us down at the beginning of the school year and explaining the penalties of failing to pay back our loans, and the stories of how previous generations didn't pay them back were no longer an option.

In the 80s they changed the income percent to qualify for housing (which had been in place since the 40s) from 20 or 25% to 30%. In theory, this could give people with lower incomes more options for housing, but housing costs just went up instead.
In @ 2005 income took a dip, but housing costs kept rising.
I'm not looking this up to verify, which is why I'm not being concrete about stats.

Yes, yes, yes.
All the while we have a totally unregulated class gouging and continuing to screw up our economy.
The pay gap between CEOs for example and the workers is ludicrous.
That little to no taxes get paid by them irritates the fuck out of me when I hear about how we cannot fund programs like Meals on Wheels.
It’s sitting in offshore accounts or is taxed using rules only available to the rich.
The game is rigged and it’s time to dust off the guillotines imho.
The disparity is larger now than it was then in France during their revolution.

Waiting for Ivanka to say “Let them eat cake” as the workers are still being forced to work with no pay.

 

[JennyDaniella]

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So true... Funnily enough I just had to check my current student loan balance and well, let's just say I am not happy about it... I feel extremely stressed and angry. Extremely angry that I am being placed in debt because I need to have an education to survive, be eligible for a good paying job and contribute to society.

It is getting to the point where in the states, you have to pay for everything, even for breathing. Many students and hard-working citizens are struggling day by day while the 1% has enough money to fix world poverty.

Ugh I am so fucking disgusted by how things are...

 

[Asa]

So true... Funnily enough I just had to check my current student loan balance and well, let's just I am not happy about it... I feel extremely stressed and angry. Extremely angry that I am being placed in debt because I need to have an education to survive, be eligible for a good paying job and contribute to society.

It is getting to the point where in the states, you have to pay for everything, even for breathing. Many students and hard-working citizens are struggling day by day while the 1% has enough money to pay for world poverty.

Ugh I am so fucking disgusted by how things are...

If anything good can come of this Millies and Gen Z will make it happen. I say this because you have so many new avenues, new rules, and generally have an optimistic attitude.
Gen X will be on the sidelines eating popcorn, because that is what we do. Also, we'll be old.

Having paid off two sets of student loans, I feel for you. (((hugs)))

 

[Pin]

Largely, I've avoided political arguments and discussions in real life because most people are not having rational discourse, checking facts and figures from reputable sources, or even decently knowledgeable of history.

They're just on the bandwagon.

This is not to disparage most people though. Most people have good instincts. The biggest problem with the United States is just how unaccountable our elected representatives are. We're a flawed democracy folks. Before gerrymandering and the excessive greed of our elite stops, the electoral college must go.

 

[Pin]

Having paid off two sets of student loans, I feel for you. (((hugs)))

Feel free to pay off mine too, I have CashApp.

 

[Skarekrow]

So true... Funnily enough I just had to check my current student loan balance and well, let's just say I am not happy about it... I feel extremely stressed and angry. Extremely angry that I am being placed in debt because I need to have an education to survive, be eligible for a good paying job and contribute to society.

It is getting to the point where in the states, you have to pay for everything, even for breathing. Many students and hard-working citizens are struggling day by day while the 1% has enough money to fix world poverty.

Ugh I am so fucking disgusted by how things are...

Feel free to pay off mine too, I have CashApp.

Check this out - http://strikedebt.org

And you can sign up for this - http://strikedebt.org/debtbuy4/ here - http://rollingjubilee.org and here - https://debtcollective.org

Best way I have seen to get rid of your student loans besides working a govt. job and signing up for the 10 year repayment program.
If you become disabled btw, you can get your loans erased....otherwise they are bankruptcy proof and there is no way to get rid of them.
However, it is my opinion and prediction that we will see large portions of the student loan debt in the US wiped away as it is unsustainable and sets people up to fail when they are trying to establish themselves as an adult.
Good luck!

 

[Skarekrow]

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[Skarekrow]

 

[Deleted member 16771]

When I got into university, I had developed an incredibly vitriolic attitude towards what I felt was the undermining of meritocracy. I was from a very disadvantaged background - one which ranked lowest on all government metrics. Essentially I was finding out about class. At the time there were literally only about 20 students from my background at university in my year... nationally.

My problem was that I could not help but develop something like a superiority complex. I saw around me the privately-educated children of wealthy parents and witnessed how utterly incompetent they seemed to be. They were typically silent in seminars, and when they did contribute something, it tended to be either obvious or stupid.

I wanted to burn down Eton College and abolish inheritance; I hated these people.

They would speak casually about 'doing a masters', blissfully unaware that they were invoking their privilege when they did so. Their academic ability did not matter; they would never have to win a funding competition - they could just pay, and not with their own money, mind. With mummy and daddy's. I ended up graduating with a First somewhere near the top of the cohort (I had some modules capped because of late submission, which I couldn't do anything about), third or fourth I think, but still missed out narrowly for masters funding that year. The university I applied to (my university) could fund about 1 masters student per year in my department (since most funding goes on PhDs), so it infuriated me that 'inferior' students were allowed to progress in my place simply because their parents were wealthier.

I have lost that chip on my shoulder to a large extent, but I still think that having wealth qualifications in a meritocracy is literally obscene. We've gone backwards in the West since the 80s on that front I think. A wealth qualification in education is like the eighteenth-century practice of being able to purchase a commission in the British Army.

 

[Pin]

When I got into university, I had developed an incredibly vitriolic attitude towards what I felt was the undermining of meritocracy. I was from a very disadvantaged background - one which ranked lowest on all government metrics. Essentially I was finding out about class. At the time there were literally only about 20 students from my background at university in my year... nationally.

My problem was that I could not help but develop something like a superiority complex. I saw around me the privately-educated children of wealthy parents and witnessed how utterly incompetent they seemed to be. They were typically silent in seminars, and when they did contribute something, it tended to be either obvious or stupid.

You have no idea how much I empathize. From my earliest days, I likewise, have been in said shoes.

I wanted to burn down Eton College and abolish inheritance; I hated these people.

They would speak casually about 'doing a masters', blissfully unaware that they were invoking their privilege when they did so. Their academic ability did not matter; they would never have to win a funding competition - they could just pay, and not with their own money, mind. With mummy and daddy's. I ended up graduating with a First somewhere near the top of the cohort (I had some modules capped because of late submission, which I couldn't do anything about), third or fourth I think, but still missed out narrowly for masters funding that year. The university I applied to (my university) could fund about 1 masters student per year in my department (since most funding goes on PhDs), so it infuriated me that 'inferior' students were allowed to progress in my place simply because their parents were wealthier.

All too common in America.

I have lost that chip on my shoulder to a large extent, but I still think that having wealth qualifications in a meritocracy is literally obscene. We've gone backwards in the West since the 80s on that front I think. A wealth qualification in education is like the eighteenth-century practice of being able to purchase a commission in the British Army.

Fortunately I have the opportunity of joining the military.

 

[Zola]

I'm enjoying reading this thread, laughing at the humor, and empathizing with the pain. It's all true, but please remember, so much is left out -- due to individual viewpoint -- that everyone's truth is true!

Each generation had difficulties. They did. It was never either good or bad. It's better to laugh at the irony than to become angry at the unfairness. Everyone knows their own generation's situation best. It's wise not to take oneself too seriously in discussing a different generation.

I look back, and I'm glad I lived when I lived and faced the struggles that I did -- and I would go back and do it again rather than trade with a different time frame. People always seem to look back with a better perspective -- and amazement at the new world. That's the way it always goes!

I'm watched a history series. People used to do hard, physical labor all day just to stay alive. When they got old, they spoke fondly of their simple lives, appreciation of happiness, and the beautiful countryside. So, yeah. Same story, different chapter now.

 

[niar]

Yeah, it's terrible how frivilous our attitude towards such a serious institution has gotten.

Baby boomers had by far the highest divorce rates, compared to x,y,z gens.

 

[Asa]

I. Can't. Breathe. Laughing. Too. Hard.

The responses are gold.

https://guacamoley.com/the-scoop/20...K&tse_id=INF_993b26101e7811e9b433ab68d22425b2

 

[Pin]

Baby boomers had by far the highest divorce rates, compared to x,y,z gens.

The. Worst.

 

[Fidicen]

I notice that decades-old anarch punk slogans and ideas have been stolen by the alt-right. The slogans are often verbatim, while the ideas are twisted for a new agenda. It can be bizarre to debate with someone who throws punk rock lyrics and cliches at me like they are "new ideas", but from the opposite point of view. I don't think it is coincidence. The right is good at revolution. Conservatives are better "team players". Steal the slogans and ideas, twist them to suit your needs, and feed them to the team, while the left, an omnium gatherum, continues to argue amongst themselves.

I believe the best way to make a subculture less threatening, too, is to popularize it among the masses.

I think for a long time this wasn't done intentionally, rather it's a side effect of the capitalist system trying to subsume pretty much everything that can be turned into a money-making machine. And anything that people find appealing, even anti-capitalist ideologies, can be used to make profit. I think this is partly why Gen X has a reputation of being nihilistic or not caring about things. A part of the Gen X experience is having seen in our teens how ideologies can be commodities too, how first the hippie culture and then punk became a part of some industry. And this includes the anarcho-punk ideas. So what followed was indifference. We can't change anything, so why bother?

However, in the past ten years conservative Gen X politicians have been using old slogans to push their agenda and to make their ideology more palatable, concentrating on telling people that they want to cut public spending because they care so much about the downtrodden that they just have to privatize everything, cut the benefits and move the profits to tax havens. It's marketed as a form of solidarity. "We're all on the same boat, so we need to make cuts so that companies make more profits, and when they make more profits they will, I promise, hire more workers, and then everyone will get rich." Perhaps this is a result of conservatives already being familiar with the slogans being used for profit, knowing how effective they can be at moving the masses.

Also, there are two things which haven't been mentioned in this thread. The first is the disintegration of the Soviet Union. Most Gen X people have at least some kind of memory of the USSR, and even those who aren't quite sure what it meant on the global scale still have felt the repercussions of that event. There used to be two major competing ideologies and overnight all that changed, and the narrative for many years was that capitalism had won as the only available option. I think this contributed in a major way to the nihilism. Either you wanted to believe in the narrative or then you became indifferent. So I disagree with @Deleted member 16771 who said that it's about the conservative revolution. Sure, in the UK Thatcher's era did change a lot of things, but I think the major event on the global scale was how the USSR was changing in the 80s and how it affected the balance of power, because that contributed to this idea of a world with no alternatives and hence no future to fight for, except perhaps a place in the rat race.

The other thing that I think is significant is that we were teenagers at the time of the AIDS epidemic, when there was really no medicine. I'd say the attitudes toward sex changed quite rapidly when better medication was discovered and teenagers no longer were given sex education mentioning this disease that will definitely kill you if you catch it.

In one of the pictures @Skarekrow posted the life-altering event of Gen X is said to be 9/11, but I think that's wrong. At least thinking about myself, what really has determined how my life turned out were the things that happened just before I hit my teens, not what I experienced in my 20s.