God's Plan

what if god has no plan. what if god is not an entity, but something so vastly different from our ability to comprehend that we will never grasp it?

What if god cares just as much about all life as he does about humans?

what if God made us all to act in the way that we do and he gave us free choice to sellect what he offered?

what if we break free and understand that religion and spirtuality are different things...

for me religion is the process by which someone else tells people what to think. spirituality is about learning from the patterns in life and attributing them to a power outside of my existence. that could mean science or a force of nature even.

OFten I think people resent religion and then close themselves off to spiritual enlightenment.
 
I know exactly what you mean, razare. Just last month, actually, I had that where I was adhering to my own value system, but felt like crap for no other reason than that my thoughts were implicitly insulting to God's character without my realizing it. I think, on reading, I think about what you're saying similarly to Barnabas. "Sounds like you're pretty spot on... what's the problem, or what more are you wondering about?"

I don't think about God's plan on a "large scale" level. Jesus did say in Matthew 6 "Do not be anxious about tomorrow, for tomorrow will be anxious for itself. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble." The context of that passage talks about how everyday decisions build up and contribute to the future result... and that basically sounds like it's how you're living your life.

When most Christians talk about "God's plan", they usually mean large-scale things (like "what profession should I go into?" or "should I move to this town, or that one?")... but I believe this missees the point. One of my favorite passages is Acts 1, where the apostles are trying to figure out who should replace Judas as an apostle--one of the most important, largest decisions which has ever been lain in the hands of humans (as the apostles' words were what shaped this massive church which has now persisted for about 2,000 years). You want to know how they did it? They thought about it, weighed peoples' characters with their moral intuitions, probably argued with each other about what qualifications were important for church leaders (later written down in future epistles), narrowed it down to two candidates......... and then flipped a coin.

That's at least how I think God's plan for people is intended to work, at the moment. Love God... love people..... and then do whatever you please and delight in the freedom you've inherited. Bear in mind that my worldview on matters like that does tend to change a whole lot every few years, though.
 
Satya said:
There are many different interpretations of the concept of God. In some cases, it is just a psychological crutch. From my experience, God is actually a state of being rather than an external force. It's an awareness and mindfulness of our place in the world.
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yes!

according to me, god is not a "being" out there, judging us, making plans for us, watching us. No God is "all there is and all there isn't", God is life itself, it is everywhere, connects everything in a whole.

It is only our mind that can't see the wholeness and therefore think we are all seperate beings. But when we are aware and mindfull like you say, we can see a glimps of the connectness and the believe that everthing is exactly the way it is suppost to be. It is in that moment that you see god!

and about God's plan. There is a plan I think but not in the way we see it. There are not certain things we have to do, goals we have to reach, guidlines we have to follow. The plan is to let go control and the accept whatever comes. The plan is to live, and nothing more, just live. And it is when you stop reaching and start living that you see all the beauty of the world, in the good and in the bad, everything just IS!
 
NeverAmI said:
Why not free will to choose between more than just 2 paths?
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Your right there are many paths we can take. Free will is about being is choosing to do whatever it is within our human power to do. We can do good, we can do bad, we can do nothing, we can do both and we can learn from mistakes, we can repeat them, the choices are infinite.

NAI I have a very open mind. I did read the Tao when I was in high school; far too early for my comprehension, and would like to read it again. If I recall it had alot of universal truths that I could interpret into my own life.

I wasn't raised in church, and I don't feel the necessity of organized religion, or that any religion is right or wrong or that a lack of religion is right or wrong. Who am I to judge, what do I know? I do believe that many paths lead to the same place, whatever that maybe. I choose to call it God, but it doesn't really matter what I call it, that's just little old me.

I just know that the sufferings in my life are part of life. Just as the happiness is a part of my life. And out of free will (and it can be ethically, morally, or spirtually) I try to do the right thing for my own conscious, and the people that I may affect. I see how choices my parents have made, and I have made years ago, have made a huge impact for where I am today, and thats just the tip of the iceberg. So I take responsibility of my actions and my life and know that even though there is a God (High Power etc) I make my own choices in this life...and for me its much easier when I do the right thing. And there's lots of unexplainable things that some may call coincidences but that's ok, I'm fine with giving credit to something higher than myself : )
 
God's plan? Even if there were such a thing, claiming to understand it makes no sense. Things like this are, in the words of Agent Smith:

"The temporary constructs of a feeble human intellect trying desperately to justify an existence that is without meaning or purpose."

Just my opinion, though.

It's not that there couldn't be a God, just that when people start talking about God's "plan" for them, it seems like they're taking things a little too far in terms of relinquishing responsibility for their own happiness.

Don't get me wrong... if it helps you, who am I to judge it? But it's not the sort of thing you should try to express or talk about. It should be personal.
 
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Intuitively strong and resilient people trying to use reason and logic often find themselves paddling upstream. I suggest dropping anchor and awaiting the tide to turn. Enjoy the rest.
 
just me said:
Intuitively strong and resilient people trying to use reason and logic often find themselves paddling upstream. I suggest dropping anchor and awaiting the tide to turn. Enjoy the rest.
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I don't understand how this relates to God's Plan?
 
Do you really not see how it relates to many of the answers this person has been given when asking about God? I feel his intuition may be receiving something he is asking help with concerning God. He should be hoisting his sails in the winds of encouragement. I bid farewell to him on his journey with all hope and joy. He should at least not lose ground.
 
Someone asked for opinions, people gave opinions, you are saying those opinions should be limited?

Is he not strong enough to hold his own conviction against someone who has an alternate opinion? I certainly think he is strong enough...
 
NeverAmI said:
Someone asked for opinions, people gave opinions, you are saying those opinions should be limited?

Is he not strong enough to hold his own conviction against someone who has an alternate opinion? I certainly think he is strong enough...
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I like chrome-lined barrels. Anyone wishing to discuss them will get a reply from me. I asked someone about them the other day. Had someone try to tell me how to keep a barrel clean, thinking I have a problem with corrosion. The stain on their shirt spoke so loud I paid little attention to them. I do not expect them to understand now if they do not already; maybe one day and a few thousand rounds later they will better understand. Sorry if I caused any confusion.
 
I'll just clarify here. My "religion" is very much a personal one, I follow no denomination and have never gone to church. I think all religions are correct because they all seek to make us better and put us in touch with God. If you live a virtuous life in touch with God, then the details don't really matter because that's the purpose of it all. That's how I see it.

As whether God is external or internal; I would align more with internal because that's where the connection lies. Without that connection, God is just a concept without tangible meaning and without significance in your life.

Appointed gatekeepers of religion are just traditional roles created by human society. It's just a byproduct of human nature, neither wrong nor right.

Morgain said:
yes I experienced this too. Every day you have to make the decision again whether you let go of control and let God "do his work" or take things into your own hands and try to force something.

I always find it difficult to decide when I have to let go of control. Is it right to let go of control, what happens if I do, what if I screw up my life when I let go of control. It is like something is always telling me that something terrible will happen when I let go of control... Do you have that too?
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For me it was more of an issue of trust. I'm still having difficulty with it. Like today, I got to thinking that my life may be utterly miserable even if I follow God's plan. Like how many years do I have to be single this time around? What's God trying to teach me this time? I know I handled my last relationship well and succeeded in furthering myself as a person, but what's that mean for my future?

The problem is I have some kind of flaw that requires for me to be fully content, I need a mate. I've had this since my teenage years. It's not that I'm emotionally needy either, I require very little from my mate. What I need is someone to express the full depth of my love towards; and without that, I always feel rather isolated.

If I follow God's plan, I'll likely find that special someone someday, and I'm sure it'll be amazing, just I'm not that patient. Being content and happy about a complete unknown is difficult for me.

As for letting go of control, I think that's just a good way to live. Control yourself but never expect to control the world around you. I've been like that for a long while now, so I don't really remember how I overcame that obstacle. Or maybe letting go of control is another way of wording the current problem I am having.

I'm just not patient enough for God's plan to unfold is the bottom line, though. I guess that's what I get to work on next. Learning to be content with whatever I have at the moment even when something is missing in my life.
 
Razare said:
For me it was more of an issue of trust. I'm still having difficulty with it. Like today, I got to thinking that my life may be utterly miserable even if I follow God's plan. Like how many years do I have to be single this time around? What's God trying to teach me this time? I know I handled my last relationship well and succeeded in furthering myself as a person, but what's that mean for my future?

The problem is I have some kind of flaw that requires for me to be fully content, I need a mate. I've had this since my teenage years. It's not that I'm emotionally needy either, I require very little from my mate. What I need is someone to express the full depth of my love towards; and without that, I always feel rather isolated.
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my thoughts exactly :D. I also want to express the full depth of my love to someone, only nobody seems to be willing to accept it. I thought I found that person quite recently and thought that god's plan was finely enrolling, but got rejected again. I also can't stop asking why? :D

maybe there is no plan, there is no learning curve and my life is just a random collection of events without meaning...
 
Morgain said:
my thoughts exactly :D. I also want to express the full depth of my love to someone, only nobody seems to be willing to accept it. I thought I found that person quite recently and thought that god's plan was finely enrolling, but got rejected again. I also can't stop asking why? :D

maybe there is no plan, there is no learning curve and my life is just a random collection of events without meaning...
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We should cherish the love we have. There are so many out there without it. To be able to express the full depth of our love with someone; that is truly something to strive for; what a shame when the depth of love and respect in return is not the same. I have grown attached to the saying, "My cup overfloweth", while many others talk of half empty or half full. To be so filled with love and speak of possible life without meaning sounds terrible at the very least and impossible at the most. :hug:
 
God's "plan" is the Christian equivalent to Karma. Just a way for major religions to explain that shit happens.
 
Morgain said:
my thoughts exactly :D. I also want to express the full depth of my love to someone, only nobody seems to be willing to accept it. I thought I found that person quite recently and thought that god's plan was finely enrolling, but got rejected again. I also can't stop asking why?
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We're in the same boat then. I wish you luck on your quest to find that someone.

As for the shit happens philosophy, I agree but I also think shit happens for a reason. The reasons aren't that difficult to discern, most of the time, if you look for them.

My ex left me because she's not mature enough to know what a committed relationship means. She still loved me when she cheated, just this other guy was more interesting at that moment. In many ways, it was a test for her to see what she would do. It was also a test for me to see how I would respond.

I left that relationship a better person than when I went in because I was willing to accept the lessons it had taught me.
 
Seriously, what kind of God would test you? The whole idea of being "tested" is such a Western way of thinking. The concept of tests for humans has only been around for a few hundred years. Before that, it was viewed as opportunity. A human had an opportunity to grow or show their strength. You only "tested" inanimate objects. I think some religions have objectified humans by externalizing God. Humans are conceived as God's playthings which he throws into situations in order to "test" them as we might test a machine for structural integrity. This is demeaning to both God and humans.

When a seed is planted, it is not tested by the soil. It isn't tested by the weather. All it does it what it can do with what it has available. Even if it does that perfectly, it still may not survive. The plant has no control over its destiny. It can't even change what kind of plant it is, because that is already ordained by its genes. All it can really do is fulfill its biological imperative to the best of its ability and maybe, just maybe, things will turn out for the best. The only difference between humans and plants is that we can pretend that when things don't work out, that they were suppose to turn out that way.

When you get down to it, all life really amounts to for human beings is an opportunity to be human. We get to experience all there is to being human, good and bad, and hopefully we appreciate it, because it is pretty miraculous that we get even that much. When you are about to die, even pain can be savored. And no matter how shitty it is for you, it will always be shittier for someone else. Think losing a fiance is hard, imagine being an HIV positive 10 year-old in Africa, who has been orphaned and has to look after his two younger siblings. What kind of test is he being put through? They certainly don't deserve it anymore than you do, and they aren't being "tested" any harder than you are. They are just humans experiencing a different side to humanity. They are making the best with what they have, and really, when you get down to it, that is what life is pretty much about.
 
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