Homosexual relations, natural or not?

Bottom line. Bonobos do it. Therefore, it is observed in nature.
 
merrytrees said:
Bottom line. Bonobos do it. Therefore, it is observed in nature.
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From the nature viewpoint, another bottom line might be that nature does not allow homosexual activity to breed children. Just pure scientific naturality. It lets them have all the sex they want, but it doesn't let them breed as a result.
 
just me said:
You can blame my Christianity for that, too, should you like.
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I'm not blaming Christianity for people's choices anymore. That is what you wanted. If you choose to hold the misconception that homosexuality is unnatural, then that is solely your misconception. And to be frank, I don't really care if you choose to be ignorant of what actually occurs in nature, or whether you choose your conception of nature as your source of morals. I don't care whether you stay, go, or get pissed off, because since you choose to ignore any ideas that are contrary to your own, you have no use in a discussion. Feel free to preach your faulty ideas, I've already clearly explained why they are wrong, and at this point, you can only make yourself look like a bigot.
 
Satya said:
I'm not blaming Christianity for people's choices anymore. That is what you wanted. If you choose to hold the misconception that homosexuality is unnatural, then that is solely your misconception. And to be frank, I don't really care if you choose to be ignorant of what actually occurs in nature, or whether you choose your conception of nature as your source of morals. I don't care whether you stay, go, or get pissed off, because since you choose to ignore any ideas that are contrary to your own, you have no use in a discussion. Feel free to preach your faulty ideas, I've already clearly explained why they are wrong, and at this point, you can only make yourself look like a bigot.
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you can only make yourself look like a bigot
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Got a mirror, Satya?
 
I wonder if this would be stupid to say.. oh well: What of hermaphrodites? I know that people born with both sexes are usually sterile, that both reproductive systems are not fully functional or even formed sometimes.. but what if it was discovered that there was such a person who could reproduce with themself? What would that do to sexuality and what is considered natural and right? What if that is what nature is working on perfecting?

I am a Christian, but I have questions that I can't deny myself from asking and wondering about.
 
Satya said:
Are you accusing me of being a bigot?
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Well no. I am more accusing you of accusing "Just me" as being a bigot, and I am just a little tired of you throwing these charges of bigotry and juvenileness and other such things at others here on this forum. What I would in essence ask of you is to not call any others of us by names and charges you would not cast upon yourself. That seems reasonable, don't you think?
 
mayflow said:
Well no. I am more accusing you of accusing "Just me" as being a bigot, and I am just a little tired of you throwing these charges of bigotry and juvenileness and other such things at others here on this forum. What I would in essence ask of you is to not call any others of us by names and charges you would not cast upon yourself. That seems reasonable, don't you think?
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I've held bigoted views toward Christianity in the past as is evident by some of my past threads on this forum, and I certainly acted like a juvenile when I reacted to your misuse of those statistics in that one thread. I'm going to call it as I see it, and that includes me.
 
Let's put it this way

I am homosexual. Did I choose to be this way? Psh, no! I would't choose to be homosexual if it were my choice. It is a more diffucalt lifetyle when it comes right down to it. I also have much fewer people to choose from.

Homosexuality is not a choice. I can't control who I am attracted to, nor can anyone else. Try to force yourself to be attracted to someone. Does it work? Nope.

As for being natural. I'm sure if you talk to any homosexual they would tell you (myself included) it is natural. We are born this way, and it is out of hands. It is like any aspect about people. The word "natural" just becomes semantics. Just because someone thinks it wouldn't be natural, doesn't mean it should be restricted in anyway way. It doesn't harm you or anyone else.
 
mayflow said:
From the nature viewpoint, another bottom line might be that nature does not allow homosexual activity to breed children. Just pure scientific naturality. It lets them have all the sex they want, but it doesn't let them breed as a result.
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Homosexuals cannot procreate with one another. This is true. Is that a moral argument against homosexuality? Does it harm the world to have a group that doesn't add to the overpopulation that already exists? Are infertile heterosexual couples who have sex acting immorally because they can't procreate? I really wish to understand this "bottom line" but I don't understand the argument people trying to make with it.
 
Satya said:
I'm not blaming Christianity for people's choices anymore. That is what you wanted. If you choose to hold the misconception that homosexuality is unnatural, then that is solely your misconception. And to be frank, I don't really care if you choose to be ignorant of what actually occurs in nature, or whether you choose your conception of nature as your source of morals. I don't care whether you stay, go, or get pissed off, because since you choose to ignore any ideas that are contrary to your own, you have no use in a discussion. Feel free to preach your faulty ideas, I've already clearly explained why they are wrong, and at this point, you can only make yourself look like a bigot.
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Satya, I am not going to expend my weekend trying to argue with you.
I am glad the majority of people in this world see things rather my way than yours. You used:
misconception
misconception
ignorant
pissed off
ignore
contrary
no use in a discussion
faulty
wrong
bigot
Good for you. Hope it makes you feel big. I will say we do not see things the same way and let it go at that. I do not have to resort to using those words. I am that I am. You are that you are. We are that we are. Regards.
 
merrytrees said:
I wonder if this would be stupid to say.. oh well: What of hermaphrodites? I know that people born with both sexes are usually sterile, that both reproductive systems are not fully functional or even formed sometimes.. but what if it was discovered that there was such a person who could reproduce with themself? What would that do to sexuality and what is considered natural and right? What if that is what nature is working on perfecting?

I am a Christian, but I have questions that I can't deny myself from asking and wondering about.
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I think earthworms can do this.
 
merrytrees said:
I wonder if this would be stupid to say.. oh well: What of hermaphrodites? I know that people born with both sexes are usually sterile, that both reproductive systems are not fully functional or even formed sometimes.. but what if it was discovered that there was such a person who could reproduce with themself? What would that do to sexuality and what is considered natural and right? What if that is what nature is working on perfecting?

I am a Christian, but I have questions that I can't deny myself from asking and wondering about.
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The focus in sexual orientation research has actually been on hormones.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6zPh97qYd4&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_bfVvo3dd8&feature=channel_page
 
Von Hase said:
As an ordained minister with a PhD in theology, I am qualified to judge whether or not someone is practicing their religion correctly when it is my own. Again, this does not make me right, just qualified.
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I don't recall anywhere in the four gospels, where Jesus gave specifics for schools of Christian theology or judges the essays on theology. Therefore you're only "qualified" in the bullshit that has sprung up in his name, not in his religion.
 
Mind as well change this debate to

Is the world flat or round?
 
This thread was finished with Satyas first post. Homosexual relations are proven to be natural.
 
mayflow said:
I think earthworms can do this.
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haha... yeah....
I was talking about people who are born with parts of both kinds..that don't fully develop.. and they're usually operated on (pretty young) and determined which sex to be by which characteristics are more developed.. But I have no idea how often it happens, not very I imagine..

And.. um. well I guess my point was that if God creates all of us and forms us and expects us to be heterosexual with defined gender roles, then what of these mutations?
Maybe I'm way off though..
 
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