God, I love God threads!! (...humour intended)
They always come down to two factors :
1) what is God?
2) does one possess 'faith'
Ignosticism ...is what I would point to first. (...google it)
(...is 'google' a verb?)
Fundamentally, it states that in order to discusss something, it must be defined as to what that 'thing' is ...and mutually agree on the definition.
As example, let's discuss a tree.
But what is a tree?
To someone who has never seen a coniferous tree, they would probably include "it has leaves" in their definition.
But for someone who has never seen a deciduous tree, the term 'leaves' means nothing.
And for someone from the desert who has never seen any kind of tree, the word 'tree' means nothing.
Some people say God is energy.
But what is energy?
Is not energy undefinable, as well?
Some people say God is love.
But what is love?
Is not love undefinable, as well?
So... everyone must
first come to some sort of concensus as to 'what is God', or no meaningful discussion can occur.
Then there is 'faith'...
"...strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof..."
Oops...
either you gots 'faith',
or you don't gots 'faith'.
People who gots 'faith' sometimes say that the 'proof' that God exists is something that one just 'knows' or 'feels' 'inside'.
But if one person just 'knows' or 'feels' 'inside', how is another person going to just 'know' or 'feel' 'inside'?
The answer is always that one must 'believe' or 'have belief'.
Oops, again.
Belief = 'trust,
faith, or confidence in someone or something'.
So...
faith is belief and...
belief is faith.
I'm beginning to see a pattern here.
People who gots 'faith' sometimes say that God cannot be defined because God is beyond our understanding, our comprehension.
"
Great is our Lord, and abundant in power; his understanding is beyond measure." (Psalm 147:5)
“
Glory be to your Lord, the Lord of inaccessibility, above what they describe.” (Qur'an 37: 180)
So... how can any discussion - rational or not - about something that is beyond human comprehension and understanding even be initiated or valid?
How can any discussion exist about something that no one can define (...and agree on the definition) - because it is beyond our comprehension and requires possessing belief in (...which requires faith in, which is the belief in, etc., etc.,
ad nauseam)?
And just for fun... let's throw in Pantheism - the concept that everything, including us humans, are the 'divinity' ...are God.
What now?
God exists because we and everything else exists and everything is God?
So... my (...and your) attributes and 'failings' and deviances and emotional tribulations and farts, etc., etc., are God? ...are 'divine'?
Anyhow... first, if possible, come to a concensus definition of 'what is God'.
Of course... for those of an atheistic persuasion, God does not exist.
Maybe you could pretend God exists for the sake of argument.
And...
if a tree falls in the forest...
does it fall left, right, forward, or backward?