How the world really works

But that is just talking about overall economic systems, not the objectives or nuances I have pointed out. I know people with Degrees (no great measure but better than nothing) who don't think the establishment mostly voted for Brexit (which they did). IF people knew all the stuff I have spoken about above as you claim, Brexit would have been 90+% Leave, but they don't and it wasn't. The EU is an elite-friendly, undemocratic organisation posing as the opposite, so 48% of the British voters got it wrong and don't know what you are saying they know lol. People talk all the time as in that video, but that's different, that's just saying everything is not working. IT's too crude.
 
Since most of us under 40 enjoy memes.


 
David Nelson said:
Leave vote was anit-establishment, protest vote.
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Though I don’t live in the UK, I successfully predicted the vote outcome.

To what degree was it anti-immigrant, nationalist, and insular though, if at all? Just curious about a native’s perspective.

Cheers,
Ian
 
aeon said:
Though I don’t live in the UK, I successfully predicted the vote outcome.

To what degree was it anti-immigrant, nationalist, and insular though, if at all? Just curious about a native’s perspective.

Cheers,
Ian
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I voted to leave the EU. It wasn’t a protest vote for me - I chose something positive, the right to democratic self-determination. I might have chosen differently if the EU could have moved towards being a democratic superstate with an elected single federal government and pan-European political parties such as there are in the USA. That could never be though - we are all far too diverse in language and culture for that, and we all have very different legal systems and constitutions that don’t gel together well. Britain was always going to be on the periphery of the political centre of gravity of the EU and our interests were always going to lose out to the nations within it that align together more closely.

I think sone people voted leave in order to get tighter control on immigration. It seems a weird reason to me because a lot of our immigrants have come from Asia over the decades in fact.

It’s a strange thing that it has become disreputable to have a nationalist perspective- but we are highly selective in how such judgements are applied. Scottish nationalists and Ukrainian nationalists aren’t thought of in that way for example. We think of the Ukraine as seeking self-determination not insularity. I feel the same about Britain escaping from the EU, though of course the circumstances, and the processes are much more civilised for us than is the Ukrainian tragedy. Thank goodness we could leave without causing a war.
 
Moranga said:
Don't leave your boy George Soros out. I'm sure his input was just satire added to poke fun at these silly conspiracies. :looninati:
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So even after explaining myself you still don't understand my position and are choosing to call that clown my "boy" for some reason lol
 
John K said:
I voted to leave the EU. It wasn’t a protest vote for me - I chose something positive, the right to democratic self-determination. I might have chosen differently if the EU could have moved towards being a democratic superstate with an elected single federal government and pan-European political parties such as there are in the USA. That could never be though - we are all far too diverse in language and culture for that, and we all have very different legal systems and constitutions that don’t gel together well. Britain was always going to be on the periphery of the political centre of gravity of the EU and our interests were always going to lose out to the nations within it that align together more closely.

I think sone people voted leave in order to get tighter control on immigration. It seems a weird reason to me because a lot of our immigrants have come from Asia over the decades in fact.

It’s a strange thing that it has become disreputable to have a nationalist perspective- but we are highly selective in how such judgements are applied. Scottish nationalists and Ukrainian nationalists aren’t thought of in that way for example. We think of the Ukraine as seeking self-determination not insularity. I feel the same about Britain escaping from the EU, though of course the circumstances, and the processes are much more civilised for us than is the Ukrainian tragedy. Thank goodness we could leave without causing a war.
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Thank you for this from a ’murican. ;)

Cheers,
Ian
 
aeon said:
Thank you for this from a ’murican. ;)

Cheers,
Ian
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Mind you, there is always the problem of choosing people who aren’t idiots to be our rulers :D. Looking at our lot at the moment, the choice seems to be which flavour of idiot do you want ….
 
Mind you, there is always the problem of choosing people who aren’t idiots to be our rulers :D. Looking at our lot at the moment, the choice seems to be which flavour of idiot do you want ….
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Honestly John I believe that the people did not chose these "idiots". I think it is more likely that these "idiots" were selected and inserted with election fraud.
A recent example being Macron.
 
Moranga said:
Honestly John I believe that the people did not chose these "idiots". I think it is more likely that these "idiots" were selected and inserted with election fraud.
A recent example being Macron.
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I don’t think it’s done through election fraud - they are just too thick to do it successfully. What we get is a choice between different sorts of donkey - the fiddling is done in what’s presented to the electorate for selection.

In the UK of course it’s COVID that’s undone Boris. He was elected to break the criminal stalemate over brexit, which he did better than any other could have done. It was his bad luck that the pandemic struck a couple of months later and he’s too shoot from the hip to have steered through that without mishap.
 
John K said:
I don’t think it’s done through election fraud - they are just too thick to do it successfully. What we get is a choice between different sorts of donkey - the fiddling is done in what’s presented to the electorate for selection.

In the UK of course it’s COVID that’s undone Boris. He was elected to break the criminal stalemate over brexit, which he did better than any other could have done. It was his bad luck that the pandemic struck a couple of months later and he’s too shoot from the hip to have steered through that without mishap.
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Yes, that is another way. All choices being compromised and influenced leading up to an election between two "good fellas". Regardless of method it appears that both running candidates are vetted and selected prior. Which brings up the obvious. Are all elections merely a show to convince the populous to believe that they actually have the ability to chose? Has it always been this way? How far does it go?
 
The illusion of choice with all that one can do is just bang on the pots and pans even though no one listens anyway.

"These politicians make me sigh
Democracy is just a lie
As long as we are rich enough
Each government will do for us
We feed like vampires on the world
We are the first, they are the third
There ain't no hope, we had our chance
We spent the world for one last dance"
Alphaville Fools​
 
Roses In The Vineyard said:
illusion of choice
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Choice has power although limited in scope. It reverberates and ripples to a certain tangible extent and from there it evolves depending on how the receiving points manage the input to churn out certain types of outputs. There are strategic ways to effect any limited change but it isn't categorically impossible. It may be out of control because it requires a chorus of reactions, which is hard to come by pristinely but not impossible. To have a crowd that believes it is all hopeless is surely more problematic than a level headed enough crowd that can make sound choices.

These value systems were made by humans to suit their own agenda. We need to think in terms of systems and modifying them at levels we can handle so we may effect longer term change. That's difficult but not impossible.
 
mintoots said:
These value systems were made by humans to suit their own agenda. We need to think in terms of systems and modifying them at levels we can handle so we may effect longer term change. That's difficult but not impossible.
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Now we're talkin
 
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