How To Improve Extroverted Sensing

Would playing action-oriented video games train Se?
 
Eniko said:
Would playing action-oriented video games train Se?
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Interesting question. Actually, it's almost the same asking whether playing Wii games train Se.

Anyone, does it?
 
Ugh, my piano teacher is brilliant. I have a natural talent for piano, but my main problems, I have noticed, have to do with Se.

If I didn't get tense all of the time I could probably be a very good performer.

Also, she tells me that I tend to "get stuck". She says my wrists should keep moving up and down and the fingers just follow. It is obvious that my Ni is interefering with that bit n_n
 
I'm starting to believe that Se is my second state of mind

For a while now I have noticed that sometimes I switch from state of mind. Expetially whan I'm really focused at work, when I'm driving and don't know the way or when I'm in a rollercoaster. I than get really focused and I absorbe the environment. Not in a Ni way: feeling the vibes, scanning the energy in the room, the underlying meanings. But more "what do I see and hear and how does this influences me, can I use it, is it benefical to me or is it threatening, do I have to consider it further or can I forget it. At work I'm on an adrenaline rush, I'm really fast, gets all information needed, I'm very information oriented with my collegues (not feeling them out at all). In the car I notice things outside that I normally doesn't see like streat names, open spaces where I can squize myself in, ...

Only when I'm in that state, I barely notice myself, my feelings, my intuition. I'm to job oriented, I need to be on guard, like I'm in danger and only being focused will help me to save my life, or something like that. And it gets really hard to get back in my intuition state of mind or just to get relaxed. I really resent it most of the times!

In fact I have always been good in orientation, spotting open parking spaces, squizing myself fast through a crowd, ...

Whould you consider this an Se state of mind? It would be a good explanation of this phenomena. Only it is not common for an INFJ to get such a strong Se I think?
 
midnightmelody said:
Ugh, my piano teacher is brilliant. I have a natural talent for piano, but my main problems, I have noticed, have to do with Se.

If I didn't get tense all of the time I could probably be a very good performer.

Also, she tells me that I tend to "get stuck". She says my wrists should keep moving up and down and the fingers just follow. It is obvious that my Ni is interefering with that bit n_n
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I don't think you need a lot of Se to play piano. In the contrary, I think you need a lot of Ni. I don't think you need an adrenaline rush, a drive to get the job done to play piano. You need feeling, intuition, a sense of how you have to play each note to create a certain feeling, sound. You have to get into the music, be the music and play without knowing you are playing, loose yourself in the music and become one with it. I also get tense when I'm playing, especially when someone is listening and I want to play without mistakes, I get so focussed on the notes that I put so much pressure on my hands that I play it all wrong, I think that is Se at work :becky:
 
TheDaringHatTrick said:
I knew you were going to crash this party, VH. :P

Thanks for the info.
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You're welcome, though you make it sound like I wasn't invited, heh.

smiffy said:
hahahaha I was waiting on him too! as soon as I seen the thread I knew he was going post!

actually got to ask him something! on another thread of course!
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Feel free.

...or is that what you asked on my profile comments?

Restraint said:
Interesting question. Actually, it's almost the same asking whether playing Wii games train Se.

Anyone, does it?
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Yes on both. However, video games are by nature more pattern oriented than real life, so they also feed N functions. Wii will obviously help with Se more than a standard video game, but the end result is that video games feed N functions more than S functions - which is probably the reason for the constant upswing in N dominant population over the past 30 years.

mooseman said:
Is sense of direction Se or Si?
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Both. Se orients where you are in relation to everything else. Si orients where you have been and where everything else is.

Reon said:
Off topic I would suppose, but if self assessment can result in inflated scores (It's obvious that it can) what would be the proper way to get the 'right' results?
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Unfortunately, just lots of research, pondering, comparisons to others whom you are certain of type, and self honesty. It's not an easy thing to take an objective look at one's self... especially for us F types.
 
mooseman said:
Very interesting post, Von Hase!

I'm curious about one thing. How do you mean Se is used in Go? I thought it was mainly an NT game.

Edit:
I play Go, and also enjoy most of the Se things you mention in the post. But I never saw a connection.
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Go is actually a very kinetic game of relative strategy. When played, Go moves are supposed to be very rapid, each player moving quickly after the other. More often than not, Go moves are of a ballpark nature. Stones are placed in a relative position to other stones, without precise counting. You know the whole "I need a stone over here somewhere" because you know that you'll be able to follow up that stone in a variety of ways later if need be. This is very Se not only because it is temporal and present but because it is based on proportion and a sense of movement (as opposed to the very precise counting of how chess pieces move). The Japanese offer Dan ranking in Go, and consider it as much a martial art as Karate or Judo. The Se of it is subtle, but very much there.

I cited Go as an example because it is a good contrast to the Si nature of Chess. Both of these games benefit strongly from intuitive perception. Chess is actually more of an NT game, with its patterns being of clear relationship. Go is more of an NF game, with its patterns being of fluid relationship. Left and right brain dominance, respectively. Despite reliance on NT or NF thought process, both of these games pull a strong S function. For those of us who are already NF types, I listed Go as a good way to start unlocking Se as it incorporates and fuels Se use very well as an addition to our NF philosophical and abstract reasoning.
 
Von Hase said:
Se orients where you are in relation to everything else. Si orients where you have been and where everything else is.
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If I understand this correctly, that would explain why I can juggle 4 balls without effort, but can't make a decent road description from my home to my workplace. My Si seems to be very very inferior.

Von Hase said:
More often than not, Go moves are of a ballpark nature. Stones are placed in a relative position to other stones, without precise counting. You know the whole "I need a stone over here somewhere" because you know that you'll be able to follow up that stone in a variety of ways later if need be. This is very Se not only because it is temporal and present but because it is based on proportion and a sense of movement (as opposed to the very precise counting of how chess pieces move).
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I see what you mean. Thank you Mr. Hase!

/1-dan EGF
 
mooseman said:
Is sense of direction Se or Si? My sense of direction is hilariously crappy. I can become lost in warehouses, the office where I work every day and even after living 15 years in the same town I can't give a good answer when someone asks me for direction.
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I suppose it could engage both, but I would think it has a little more to do with Se, whereas giving and receiving verbal directions might be a little more Te. (Just my guess.)
 
Morgan said:
I don't think you need a lot of Se to play piano. In the contrary, I think you need a lot of Ni. I don't think you need an adrenaline rush, a drive to get the job done to play piano. You need feeling, intuition, a sense of how you have to play each note to create a certain feeling, sound. You have to get into the music, be the music and play without knowing you are playing, loose yourself in the music and become one with it. I also get tense when I'm playing, especially when someone is listening and I want to play without mistakes, I get so focussed on the notes that I put so much pressure on my hands that I play it all wrong, I think that is Se at work :becky:
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Music actually has a lot of Se involved. The concentration on the physical, the natural understanding of the flow of the music, the kinetics of the hands that make the sounds -- these are all very Se things. Really, music employs just as much S as it does N, and great musicians often have a great handle on the Se of living in the moment of the music along with the guidance of Ni (and Ne and Si work in there too, with pattern recognition and all that stuff)
 
flux said:
I suppose it could engage both, but I would think it has a little more to do with Se, whereas giving and receiving verbal directions might be a little more Te. (Just my guess.)
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Hmm.. This is interesting stuff. What I can't seem to understand is how the mental process of visualizing a path would be similar to that of say juggling. To me it feels very different when I actually do it. I think I have some reading to do. Thanx for the input!
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Couple of questions or thoughts. Is knowing cardinal directions (North, South, etc) more Se than Si, and knowing the difference between left and right, Se/Si? I can tell N/S, E/W almost flawlessly, but I have great difficulty distinguishing left from right. Also, driving a car would seem to involve Se/Si, plus Ti, I think. Took me 3 attempts to pass my driver's road test. Thoughts?
 
Take up hunting, seriously.
 
I dont really undertand what se is. Is it just physical things around you? I dont know left from right, I have to stop and think about which is which. But I notice small changes in my physical environment. Like if a piece of equipment at work is placed off 1/2" where it normally is. Or if it makes a different sound than usual. I also work with a lot of women. I always notice if they have a different hair style/cut, different color hair (even 1 shade) or if the dye job is just fading, different nails, jewelry, earrings, etc. They really appreciate this but it get tiring because there are so many of them and they are always messing around with the cut and color of their hair and nails. Not to mention everything else.
 
Us er Na me: said:
I dont really undertand what se is. Is it just physical things around you? I dont know left from right, I have to stop and think about which is which. But I notice small changes in my physical environment. Like if a piece of equipment at work is placed off 1/2" where it normally is. Or if it makes a different sound than usual. I also work with a lot of women. I always notice if they have a different hair style/cut, different color hair (even 1 shade) or if the dye job is just fading, different nails, jewelry, earrings, etc. They really appreciate this but it get tiring because there are so many of them and they are always messing around with the cut and color of their hair and nails. Not to mention everything else.
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I think that would be Si (Si tend to pay attention to details)

Se - Just do it, it's that Simple.

I've been doing this on piano it's help. I haven't really thought about as Se (I guess because the more you relate something to one another the more Ne your using instead of Se kind of like a inverse relationship).

For me it's just letting go and experiencing the moment. The thrill of making getting through a hard workout, the feeling and sound comming from the cello.

I guess for XXXJ It would be about just letting go and for XNXX to just stop thinking.

Hope this helps!
 
When I was younger my Se was quite good and I was very competent in sports and other Se activities. Once I got out of my adolescence my Se decreased drastically and now is almost non existant. The only thing that is saving its butt is that I run and walk everyday. This thread has been really helpful.
 
Von Hase said:
I don't mean to bust anyone's chops, but I'm seeing a lot of conjecture on how to improve Se that has nothing to do with Se.

Focusing on details on a rational level is the function of Si. Examples include picking out the details in pictures, memory games, and the like. Si is the function of taking in what you perceive. Examples of Si include sheet music, cooking from recipe, using rote strategies in games like chess, mathematical reasoning, counting, analysis of surroundings, and the like.

Se is is the function of being part of what you perceive. Examples of Se activities include, visual art, using reactive tactics in games like Go, improvised music, martial arts, free form dance, athletics, camping, outdoorsy activities, target shooting, archery, jogging, sports, juggling, acrobatics, and the like.

Se can also be very competitive, and thrives on projecting strength. All of the people I know who have firearms permits and carry them regularly have a fairly strong Se. For example, my brother in law is an ISTP who never leaves the house without his gun. His father is an ENTJ who is a career Marine drill sergeant who served in Vietnam and owns several dozen firearms, yet never carries a gun outside his house unless he goes hunting (and all of his guns are hunting or target shooting weapons, which are both very Se activities). This is a good example of difference between secondary Se and tertiary Se. Secondary Se needs to feel capable of protection at all times (for T types that is physical protection, and for F types that is emotional protection). Tertiary Se is comfortable knowing that they can protect themselves when need be. Inferior Se gives protection last priority, but does consider it - for example INTJs are prone to take enough martial arts classes to feel confident in self defense, but after that give it up. Ironically, none of these friends would ever use this projected, implied, or reserved strength to harm anyone needlessly. Se is the projection of strength for more than the application of it.

At the same time, Se is very communal and benevolent. I personally think that Se is the biggest reason for the success of dance clubs. One of my favorite examples of the manifestation of Se is watching large groups of people who love each other spontaneously dancing in unison at a party. All of a sudden when a certain song comes on, the whole dance floor pops into position and everyone starts doing the same dance, and having a blast.

Lastly, this guy is perhaps the best example of Se I've ever seen.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MeiwLLZjDo[/YOUTUBE]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MeiwLLZjDo
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interesting that u mention sheet music and mathematics...

I took band for years in highschool, I never once got the hang of reading sheet music. I just played my clarinet by ear.

Even if I had never played a song before, all Id have to do was to listen to it being demonstrated once and I could remember it. Sometimes, I could even play along because I could tell where the song was going... eerie I know ~

as far as math went in school... well, I won't even go there, lol
 
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