How would you rate your level of attractiveness?

[bamf]

But that's not what I was getting at. Assume for a second that the person can walk-the-walk and talk-the-talk and have an IQ that rivals Einstein's and can engage you in an intellectual conversation about the Principia Mathematica and are everything you want psychologically, mentally and emotionally. On a purely visceral level, should they choose to appropriately enhance their physical features with make-up or fashion or whatever else, there is always the potential to increase their attractiveness on a purely physical-basis.

Lordy lordy! I would be in heaven.

 

[Ergo Christobal]

I definitely agree that there is more to attractiveness than what is skin-deep; it's very much all about the eye of the beholder. You've made some assumptions about Ms. Fox without ever meeting her based on, what I'm assuming, are your past experiences with men and women who present themselves that way. But assume for a second that the person can walk-the-walk and talk-the-talk and have an IQ that rivals Einstein's and can engage you in an intellectual conversation about the Principia Mathematica and are everything you want psychologically, mentally and emotionally. On a purely visceral level, should they choose to appropriately enhance their physical features with make-up or fashion or whatever else, there is always the potential to increase their attractiveness on a purely physical-basis.

If there is such a person, and makeup enhances the general experience of that person, go for it. I've got nothing against dressing up to appear more attractive, but I feel it often takes the place of real attraction. It's great for the first impression, I will agree this is necessary, but too much is weighted on making oneself appear differently.

Indeed, there are mathematical standards and calculations where attractiveness is concerned and we do respond to them on a subconscious level. Most of the time, the factors that contribute to that subconscious formula of beauty can be enhanced or changed. For example, most men are attracted to larger eyes. With the right color palette and some knowledge about application, a woman can play up her eyes so that they appear larger than they are. Paired with flattering clothes and hair-style, she ups her chances of being noticed for her physical features.

I'm sure this is true, but you'll lose me when there's nothing behind those big eyes. I might be saying that physical attraction is part of forming and maintaining relationships. Makeup and what have you doesn't always enhance this, and too much reliance on physical appearance to appear as part of the standard actually harms overall attractiveness.

This is why I mentioned context in my above post. Up until now, there was nothing in the discussion that suggested attractiveness beyond that of the purely physical, to which my statement about the possibility to enhance physical appeal still stands. Who that attracts is also a possible toss of the dice or careful marketing strategy. Like it or not, we do bank a lot on first impressions and there are certain things that we can potentially say approach a standard.

I agree, there is always the possibility to enhance your appearance. To me, it seems that people go about this in the wrong way or to too far extremes. People start of as beautiful, and makeup can only do so much to make that more visible.

As for standards, I'm not too sure. Of course there are standards, but a "standard" only works in an objective environment. I represent an outlier for the standard of sexy, as do many others. With different tastes in everyone, I guess all you can do is attempt to appeal to those that you want to be attracted to you. I'll admit that the standard for sexy covers most of the male demographic.

It seems we mostly agree, it's just that I put much less value to enhancing physical appearance and much more (possibly unrealistically) to other forms of attraction.

 

[Quinlan]

I was thinking the other day about makeup and how women it is (perhaps unintentionally) used to mimic sexual arousal/availability. Flushed cheeks, lips and eyelids etc. it is also used to exagerrate estrogen related traits (high cheekbones, full lips).

Is it any wonder that men are such horndogs when most women are running around in an artificial state that our primitive male minds recognise as hyper fertile and available?

Consider your average caveman, who would probably only ever come across maybe a few hundred?? women in their lifetime (half of which would be related) all of which would be completely without make up/cosmetics/soap/shampoo/conditioner/razors etc. I wonder what he would think of the photomanipulated women we see on magazine covers? would he even recognise them as human?

 

[sassafras]

I'm curious, but does attrativeness necessarily have to correspond with self confidence? I've known some very unattractive people who have amazing confidence and get laid all the time or end up in a relationship with someone who is way more attractive than them. In fact, confidence in and of itself seems to be more attractive than physical attractiveness. And in some cases I think physical attractiveness is actually a major turn off since physically attractive people are often seen as more superficial and/or arrogant than they may actually be.

No, physical attractiveness doesn't necessarily have to correspond with self-confidence, but it usually correlates. Like it or not, there are standards and prejudices in our society concerning physical appearance and there is a slight difference in the way people who are considered physically attractive are treated by others. Attractive children usually get more attention from their teachers and peers and therefore, are exposed to more opportunities that allow for experiences and skills that contribute to and build healthy self-esteem. Furthermore, we're usually bombarded by images of attractive people in the media who are happy and successful, so there's the automatic assumption that good looking = confident = successful.

 

[IndigoSensor]

I'm curious, but does attrativeness necessarily have to correspond with self confidence? I've known some very unattractive people who have amazing confidence and get laid all the time or end up in a relationship with someone who is way more attractive than them. In fact, confidence in and of itself seems to be more attractive than physical attractiveness. And in some cases I think physical attractiveness is actually a major turn off since physically attractive people are often seen as more superficial and/or arrogant than they may actually be.

Mixed a confidant unattractive person, with someone who just wants to get laid, period. Poof, you have someone who always gets laid. Both of these kinds of people are somewhat common, so it does happen enough to be noticed (and enough to confused people).

 

[Barnabas]

I was thinking the other day about makeup and how women it is (perhaps unintentionally) used to mimic sexual arousal/availability. Flushed cheeks, lips and eyelids etc. it is also used to exagerrate estrogen related traits (high cheekbones, full lips).

Is it any wonder that men are such horndogs when most women are running around in an artificial state that our primitive male minds recognise as hyper fertile and available?

Consider your average caveman, who would probably only ever come across maybe a few hundred?? women in their lifetime (half of which would be related) all of which would be completely without make up/cosmetics/soap/shampoo/conditioner/razors etc. I wonder what he would think of the photomanipulated women we see on magazine covers? would he even recognise them as human?

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmekzvbKrF8"]YouTube- Joe Nichols - Gimmie That Girl[/ame]

 

[Gaze]

Can i just say, imho, confidence is overrated. If you're not confident in the right things, your self esteem can fall apart, no matter how attractive you are.

 

[sassafras]

If there is such a person, and makeup enhances the general experience of that person, go for it. I've got nothing against dressing up to appear more attractive, but I feel it often takes the place of real attraction. It's great for the first impression, I will agree this is necessary, but too much is weighted on making oneself appear differently.

I'm sure this is true, but you'll lose me when there's nothing behind those big eyes. I might be saying that physical attraction is part of forming and maintaining relationships. Makeup and what have you doesn't always enhance this, and too much reliance on physical appearance to appear as part of the standard actually harms overall attractiveness.

Again, I agree that attraction has many complex layers, but this still goes beyond the scope of my point about improving physical appearance and purely physical attraction.

I agree, there is always the possibility to enhance your appearance. To me, it seems that people go about this in the wrong way or to too far extremes. People start of as beautiful, and makeup can only do so much to make that more visible.

Agreed.

As for standards, I'm not too sure. Of course there are standards, but a "standard" only works in an objective environment. I represent an outlier for the standard of sexy, as do many others. With different tastes in everyone, I guess all you can do is attempt to appeal to those that you want to be attracted to you. I'll admit that the standard for sexy covers most of the male demographic.

I think it's not so much important that women enhance their physical appearance with the intent to attract as much of the male demographic as they can, because not everyone woman's appearance lends herself to what is propagated by the media. Rather, I'm talking about enhancing her appearance so that it compliments her own, unique beauty.

It seems we mostly agree, it's just that I put much less value to enhancing physical appearance and much more (possibly unrealistically) to other forms of attraction.

I'm glad that we agree. My only potential irk is your parting comment, where you may or may not have implied that I personally place more value on physical attributes above all else (much more than you do, anyway) a possible assumption that is nowhere near true.

 

[Satya]

I dunno. I find it hilarious that I want to be with a physically attractive person. I can't judge society for being superficial because I am just as superficial. A guy with a nice V drives me wild; add a medium build and cute facial features and I'm sold. It's not like I want to judge a book by its cover, but it can be really difficult to get past an unattractive cover. Add that I know I'm not Prince Charming, and you have a recipe for some wicked cognitive dissocance. I don't want to be judged by my appearance but I actively judge others for their appearance.

Sadly, I've known several people who were attracted to me even though I felt no attraction to them. You just can't force it but if you are only attracted to people outside your league, then you are in trouble. And when you are ugly, just about everyone is outside your league.

 

[Ergo Christobal]

I'm glad that we agree. My only potential irk is your parting comment, where you may or may not have implied that I personally place more value on physical attributes above all else (much more than you do, anyway) a possible assumption that is nowhere near true.

I did not mean to imply that! My apologies. What I'm saying is that there is a certain level of necessary physical attraction in everyday appearance, and people should try to make themselves appear more attractive. We agree on this, just to different extents. Or, maybe we agree more similarly than I think.

I'm not really sure where either of us stand in the spectrum. With one end being physical attraction is the only thing that affects relationships and it being something that doesn't matter at all, I feel I'm closer to the latter.

You've made me really think about it, and I think I'm more moderate now. It really does matter, although the hopeless romantic inside of me is going to be upset with me.

 

[Phage]

Can i just say, imho, confidence is overrated. If you're not confident in the right things, your self esteem can fall apart, no matter how attractive you are.

Perhaps you mean over-confidence? Having confidence doesn't mean one is blind to their imperfections. I can see what you mean though.

I am blessed to be confident, strong-willed, and optimistic. Just because one person finds me hideous in looks or mind or both, doesn't mean the end of the world. There are over 6 billion people in the world. At least one is bound to think otherwise. If I find one person other than myself who thinks I am beautiful in any way, I will be happy. And if not, I will also be happy.

I have been called ugly all throughout elementary school, middle school, high school, and my own family has called me ugly. It hurt until I said screw that shit and I just started having confidence in myself and building my independence. You have to put some sort of worth on yourself, because if you don't, other people will put it on you and people can be cruel.

 

[sassafras]

I did not mean to imply that! My apologies. What I'm saying is that there is a certain level of necessary physical attraction in everyday appearance, and people should try to make themselves appear more attractive. We agree on this, just to different extents. Or, maybe we agree more similarly than I think.

I figured as much, but it would have bugged me if I hadn't cleared that up

I'm not really sure where either of us stand in the spectrum. With one end being physical attraction is the only thing that affects relationships and it being something that doesn't matter at all, I feel I'm closer to the latter.

You've made me really think about it, and I think I'm more moderate now. It really does matter, although the hopeless romantic inside of me is going to be upset with me.

I personally think physical attraction becomes less of factor in attraction as you progress deeper into a relationship and your overall attraction becomes solidified by more, shall we say? weightier qualities that appeal to a higher level in our hierarchy of needs and desires. But before you get to step 1,564 in the relationship, something had to have caught your attention to lead you down that path. Most of the time, it's physical, and there's no shame in that!

Furthermore, barring a few unfortunate exceptions, I have a hard time believing that there are truly any hopelessly ugly people out there. I think everyone has at least a few attractive traits or potentially attractive traits. It's just more socially acceptable for (and even expected of) women to enhance these traits.

 

[Nucky]

Attractiveness is so subjective . . . and being a straight dude I really can't say

But by popular standards, I would say probably not too good . . . unless you're a chubby chaser. For a fatass I guess I'm not too bad-looking.

 

[dneecey]

Glasses decrease your attractiveness.

@Dragon: *sigh* You cut me deep. guess.. Maybe if I take my glasses off I can vote above average?

 

[the]

Isnt average what is actually hot? Which should I put? Average or hot?

 

[Ergo Christobal]

Glasses are totally sexy.

 

[the]

I have to agree with that. I think we man have it harder. Most of us can't do that transformation. I wonder why?

Youd be surprised what a suit will do to a guys attractiveness level. But all guys really need is money and women will think he is gorgeous. $$$$$

 

[Faye]

@Dragon: *sigh* You cut me deep. guess.. Maybe if I take my glasses off I can vote above average?

You're definitely above average with or without them on.

I'm not saying that I find them less attractive (I wear them too). I'm saying they are generally perceived to make you less attractive (but more intelligent), meaning that, if this is true, you'll get higher ratings on a site like hotornot without glasses.

 

[bamf]

Youd be surprised what a suit will do to a guys attractiveness level. But all guys really need is money and women will think he is gorgeous. $$$$$

I don't have a suit or money. I'm screwed, not literally.

 

[Raccoon Love]

You're definitely above average with or without them on.

I'm not saying that I find them less attractive (I wear them too). I'm saying they are generally perceived to make you less attractive (but more intelligent), meaning that, if this is true, you'll get higher ratings on a site like hotornot without glasses.

I personally think glasses look adorable on certain people .