Humanity and it Progress in the 21st Century

[Rferraris]

As a people, we are more aware and to some extent we have escaped isolation. We have become aware of the pedophile that twisted someone's life; we become aware of the oppression imposed by a group on another because of race, color, sexuality, creed or lack of. We have become sensitive.

As someone mentioned, our expectations are different. I imagine years ago we worried about crops, food and surviving disease and bad weather.
Tonight, I wonder what I'll crawl into bed watching on TV with my girl at my side. This might be after I take her out for dinner. Not for any special reason, just because I can.

The media has replaced our thoughts. It tells us everything we should think, want, fear, aspire to. To this end, we are less capable. Human interactions are relegated to the feelings and impressions we get from TV. We don't spend much time reading, being alone, forced to use imaginations and practice the art of conversation. I ignore most people while playing on my iPhone.

Our wants are instantly fulfilled via the Internet. My want for an intellectual thought led me here. I have two minutes before I have something else to do when I will put you down and forget you until I pick it up again. At which point you have ignored me, overwhelmed me with responses, or disappeared altogether. At which point I will either entertain the responses or find something else to do. All without any consequence.

But are we more humane? Our actions are less unkind and unjust. Only because of learned behavior; only because of fear of being exposed. Again, we do nothing in isolation.
That's for the crazies and the sadly left alone.

As a people, have we progressed. Progressed toward what?
History is only as long as you are alive.
Do your kids drive slowly because you showed them all the horrible things that happen? Do they not need to learn these lessons for themselves. Are they able to get a visceral sense of anything because you bestowed your infinite knowledge and wisdom upon them?

History repeats itself. We are who we have always been. Big brother will always be there to make sure you act appropriately. But do you think you are a more caring person than you would have been otherwise. If I took away all your belongings and killed everyone you cared about, (you'd be in Iraq), sorry, you'd suddenly lose all sense of humanity. So are we more humane, or just fat and lazy.

 

[muir]

If we are trying to decide if we have 'progressed' maybe we should try to define what we think progress is

I mentioned spirituality before because i see it as relating to the emotional wellbeing of people

Obviously there are a lot of things associated with the word 'spirituality' but within that umbrella term i see things such as personal development. I'm not necessarily talking about god here. I'm talking about our relationship with our unconscious mind. If you want to bring in god you can...its all down to your interpretation.

But putting the word 'god' aside for a minute, i'm talking about the process of trying to cultivate a relationship with an aspect of ourselves in order to become happier as people.

I think our conscious mind is the tip of the iceberg of our psyche. There is a whole load of other stuff going on in that inner realm. A lot of the terrain of that inner realm will be different for each individual depending on their life experiences, their cultural programming etc but Jung talked about the collective unconscious which is part of our shared heritage as humans

A person who is trying to make conscious things that were unconscious may then be able to reconcile with those aspects of themselves and grow as a person and become more balanced and happier and perhaps better integrated into their community

Jung looks at myths for example hero myths and at how they are actually just mapping stages of our development as we grow into adulthood. To understand the myths on those levels is to be initiated into their mysteries and to be initiated is to undergo a transformative experience

Are we the same people we were 10 years ago? No....we have all undergone changes in that time. We have hopefully gained greater insight into ourselves, others and into our place in the world. When i talk about spirituality i'm usually talking about this process of personal development. To try to consciously engage with this process is to try and quicken our personal development

For example the alchemists of old were not really trying to turn base metal into gold...that was usually a cover story to attract the funding of wealthy patrons. What they were usually concerned with was transforming themselves spiritually. That was what Jesus was doing in the bible when he was turning water into wine...its a metaphor for initiating people ie transforming them spiritually

To say that this stuff is a luxury for humans is to not really take fully into account what a huge part this has played in our development as a species. Anyone who doubts this should study ancient cave art which is full of depictions of shamens undergoing journeys into the unconscious realms in order to heal people.

Arguably we didn't really start becoming human until we were engaging with art. So it isn't a luxury, it is fundamentally a part of who we are.

There has been a deliberate move by people in power to distract people away from looking within. Part of this process has been the hoarding and jealous guarding of esoteric knowledge by elites who have only ever drip fed the public watered down versions of spiritual truths...usually literal interpretations of them

An example of this would be the transferral of Isis for the virgin Mary. Isis was not seen by pagans as a historical figure....she was seen as a living archtype. She was seen to embody certain truths about women and the cults that revolved around her were transmitting female mysteries. She was reverred as a mother and as a virgin and as an old woman: the three stages of a womans life. She was NOT reverred as a virgin mother as Isis worshippers would have found such an idea absurd....how can someone be a mother and a virgin?

Women were able to engage with Isis as a woman who was a fellow woman who lived and loved. Christians can't do the same with Mary. For example how can a christian woman ever aspire to be a virgin and a mother...she will always fall short of that ideal!

The patricarchal elites who gave christians the virgin mary did so because they knew the people would not let go of the feminine principle easily so they gave them a neutered version of one with an unobtainable and unreal quality which transmitted no real truths to them about their own nature and their own role in the world as women

Its easy for jaded people in the modern world to look around at modern religions especially as some global tensions seem to be along religious fault lines and see them as luxuries, but that is perhaps because these religions are often the externalised, literalised versions of myths that when assimilated properly by the initiatate can bring them to greater understandings about themselves and their place in the world.

We have lost these myths and the mysteries they transmit in our mainstream society and that is why so many people are not developing properly. There are a lot of people who are adults but still exhibiting quite childish attitudes to things because they have not initiatated or been initiated

The reason spirituality and the relationship with the unconscious mind has been suppressed is because they offer the individual empowerment and elites have never wanted the people they rule over to be empowered

 

[Flavus Aquila]

Our ideals for technology and our ideals for ourselves are incongruous.


We want our technology to be 'smart', user-friendly, logically/intuitively presented, efficient, beautiful, pleasing, adaptable,reliable, etc.

But we idolize sensuousness/stupidity, self-righteousness (in religious and irreligious forms), selfishness, dishonesty, bad manners, control, crass exhibitionism, uncooperative-ness, inflexibility, etc. for ourselves.

 

[Apone]

Humans developed spirituality as a way to survive. Spirituality creates unity amongst groups of people. In nature, if you are a human, there is a huge advantage to having unity with others.

Do you think that ants have spirituality? What about bonobos? Zebras? And that cats aren't spiritual because in their natural state, they prefer to go it alone?

 

[Apone]

yep, that's what I am saying. And I have said it three or four times now. I think I will stop saying it. Thank you for your input in this matter.

I really don't understand why you're getting so upset about this.

How else am I supposed to interpret:

What was the materialist drive for a woman to live past the age reproductivity?

And to answer this, I would guess it's because women's arms and legs don't drop off when they hit menopause.
At this point I'm not sure if we're all thinking of spirituality in the same way.

 

[tfg345i4u5lw]

Do you think that ants have spirituality? What about bonobos? Zebras? And that cats aren't spiritual because in their natural state, they prefer to go it alone?

I'm not sure what emotions motivate them to be social, but it might be something similar to spirituality who knows. I just think the majority of emotions we feel are just natures tricks and they help us survive.

 

[Apone]

To say that this stuff is a luxury for humans is to not really take fully into account what a huge part this has played in our development as a species. Anyone who doubts this should study ancient cave art which is full of depictions of shamens undergoing journeys into the unconscious realms in order to heal people.

Arguably we didn't really start becoming human until we were engaging with art. So it isn't a luxury, it is fundamentally a part of who we are.

Why can't a luxury be a fundamental part of who we are? Don't you think that iPhones can be a fundamental part of who someone is? Why is one inherently 'good' and the other inherently 'bad'?

 

[Apone]

I'm not sure what emotions motivate them to be social, but it might be something similar to spirituality who knows. I just think the majority of emotions we feel are just natures tricks and they help us survive.

What do you think spirituality is, exactly?

 

[tfg345i4u5lw]

What do you think spirituality is, exactly?

For me it would be the belief that there is something greater than myself; the people, God, nature, and things like that. And understanding that life is a gift to be cherished, not just a random sequence of events. That we have a responsibility to take care of the planet. etc... etc...

 

[Stu]

I really don't understand why you're getting so upset about this.

How else am I supposed to interpret:

If spirituality is a luxury, why did humans begin to live past their natural expiration point. More precisely, what was the materialist drive for a woman to live past the age reproductivity? (Women in fact live longer then men) I would posit it was the embracing of human spirituality that gave life meaning beyond the biological imperative to procreate. (of course I could be wrong, but it serves me well to believe this.)

And to answer this, I would guess it's because women's arms and legs don't drop off when they hit menopause.
At this point I'm not sure if we're all thinking of spirituality in the same way.

Clearly you do not see the import of this line of reasoning to me. I apologize for showing frustration with my inability to evoke in you the dimmest inkling into the ideas that I am trying (without success) to convey to you.

If spirituality is a luxury, why did humans begin to live past their natural expiration point. More precisely, what was the materialist drive for a woman to live past the age reproductivity? (Women in fact live longer then men) I would posit it was the embracing of human spirituality that gave life meaning beyond the biological imperative to procreate. (of course I could be wrong, but it serves me well to believe this.)

What I am trying to convey here is that the primary biological instinct in humans is survival. But not indefinite survival, survival with the intent of reproduction. Modern, anatomically correct humans lived in a harsh environment and survival took supreme effort. Once the body aged and its ability to procreate diminished, that effort demanded more and more "psychic" energy (eg will power).

It was, in my opinion, the development and tapping into other aspects of consciousness that gave humanity the psychic energy to wish to survive. This is the essence of "Spirituality".

We have not developed into this complex and largely "imaginary" society simply because we "figured it out". There had to and has to be something else that is the source of that energy. Without "it" the modern individual will not thrive.

To those who would believe that they are doing just fine with out "it" I would suggest that they have and are in tune with "it" unconsciously.

Last edited by Stu; 27-09-12 at 11:53AM

 

[Apone]

For me it would be the belief that there is something greater than myself; the people, God, nature, and things like that. And understanding that life is a gift to be cherished, not just a random sequence of events. That we have a responsibility to take care of the planet. etc... etc...

Why do you have to believe that there are things greater than yourself… don't you just know it by looking around? I mean, isn't it obvious? Does anyone (human or otherwise) actually disbelieve this? Or are you talking about deities?

I'm not knocking spirituality, I'm just saying that I don't think it's essential to anyone's survival… and saying that it's a cause rather than an effect of our resilience/dominance of the planet seems pretty unlikely, though I can see how some people might want to think otherwise. I would definitely agree that the presence of spirituality signifies a successful species, however… but again this supports the idea that spirituality is a luxury earned by those who have fought their way to the top of the food chain.

 

[Apone]

Clearly you do not see the import of this line of reasoning to me. I apologize for showing frustration with my inability to evoke in you the dimmest inkling into the ideas that I am trying (without success) to convey to you.

Too bad you can't include:

Last edited by Stu; 27-09-12 at 11:53 AM.

in your amazing 'repost' that I am so stupid for not getting.

To be honest, when I was asking all of those questions, it wasn't so much that I didn't get what you were saying as much as it just sounded like something must be missing… but I guess that's not the case.

So here's what I think:

Even as a pretty die-hard atheist who is open to nihilistic ideas, I would never suggest that the purpose of life is just reproduction. Saying that it is seems to imply a real obliviousness to how families work, and what very young human children are actually capable of, which is to say, not very much.

I'm not sure if you've noticed, but humans don't just have their babies and then drop them in the woods to fend for themselves. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that if you do this to a baby, then it will die.

So you have to raise it... and raising a human baby takes much longer than raising a kitten or a puppy. A kitten only really needs a few months, but a human needs years. And because our parents realize this, they know that they also have to live longer, and take care of us, protect us from harm, and teach us how to get by.

They also know that it's easier to die within a time frame of years than a time frame of a few months-- so in the interest of helping our children to survive, we depend on other people-- grandmothers, grandfathers, uncles, aunts, friends, neighbors etc. So again in the interest of preserving the species, those people remain useful as 'backups'.

It has nothing to do with psychic energy, or willpower, or some inexplicable mystery force… it all comes down to survival instincts. This isn't to say that instinct can't dovetail into something more interesting, just that it doesn't imply that it's all due to an inexplicable energy force, driving everything with some sort of grand intent.

In some ways it is miraculous that our slow maturity rate didn't end up being a huge disadvantage that rendered us easy prey for animals who matured much faster… and even more miraculous that it has actually had the opposite effect-- and has actively encouraged us to develop intricate social bonds in order to survive, and that those social bonds have actually resulted in our becoming the dominant species on the planet.

But you can't say that we're not social creatures, or that learning in general isn't a social process… and that it isn't our unique social bonds which have also fostered social/intellectual luxuries like spirituality (mostly when times were such that survival/protection didn't take precedent)… and various forms of mythology that probably exist only within the human 'realm' (our communication patterns/relationships).

 

[Stu]

It has nothing to do with psychic energy, or willpower, or some inexplicable mystery force… it all comes down to survival instincts.).

I think the difference in our points of view is that I am considering the development of human psychology over the time span that humanity has existed and wondering how our base survival instinct evolved into what it is today. I refuse to rule out a transcendental aspect to this development but accept that that may not be the case.

Psychic energy is not the spooky force at a distance stuff as much as it is the unseen, unmeasurable forces that move our Psyche.

If these terms only read voodoo to you than I am at a loss.

 

[Apone]

I think the difference in our points of view is that I am considering the development of human psychology over the time span that humanity has existed and wondering how our base survival instinct evolved into what it is today. I refuse to rule out a transcendental aspect to this development but accept that that may not be the case.

Psychic energy is not the spooky force at a distance stuff as much as it is the unseen, unmeasurable forces that move our Psyche.

If these terms only read voodoo to you than I am at a loss.

Your question was "If spirituality is a luxury, why did humans begin to live past their natural expiration point. More precisely, what was the materialist drive for a woman to live past the age reproductivity?", and that's the question that I thought I answered. I also do think that my response answers the question of how I think our 'base survival instinct evolved into what it is today'.

My answer is that I don't think that our psychology has evolved… not in the sense of there having been huge leaps and bounds, or drastic changes. We're still social animals, because it's how we've learned to adapt to our environment-- the process is the same no matter what our environment entails.

It's interesting that the most popular technologies in the world are social. Facebook, iPhones, the Internet-- all social phenomena. We still long to care about each other, learn from each other, and teach each other… because it's how we adapt, and because adaptation is survival. We recognize that the landscape is changing, and we recognize the need to adapt, so our instincts again kick in and compel us to turn to each other for answers…

If we have evolved/are going to evolve, then it would probably mean that we've finally begun to look to other, non-human sources of information for clues on how to survive-- I suppose that machines/technology sort of qualify… but I would say that animals/nature/outer space is probably a better place to look.

I am willing to admit that some spirituality/religion was probably born out of superstitions which arose in times of desperation (praying to the Gods for rain in a drought, for example), some of it was probably hatched out of times of prosperity when things like humanizing the universe/some sort of social ideal was most important, and then some of it is probably just the articulation of human social instincts… and then it was sort of combined and passed along through various social channels until it arrived at the present day as a mix of ideas, the 'meaning' of which nobody actually understands.

But I do think that it's kind of a dead end… it makes more sense to turn to tangible examples of existence and learn from other creatures how to achieve harmony with the planet, rather than 'humanizing' the unknown and pretending that we can talk to the universe as if it were our mom or dad or something.

 

[muir]

Why can't a luxury be a fundamental part of who we are? Don't you think that iPhones can be a fundamental part of who someone is? Why is one inherently 'good' and the other inherently 'bad'?

I haven't said that technology is bad. I am saying that a certain aspect of our nature needs to be balanced with another aspect of our nature.

I think if we don't balance these two aspects of our nature then we will end up feeling empty even if we have the latest iphone

 

[tfg345i4u5lw]

I haven't said that technology is bad. I am saying that a certain aspect of our nature needs to be balanced with another aspect of our nature.

I think if we don't balance these two aspects of our nature then we will end up feeling empty even if we have the latest iphone

I agree man. It's important to keep the spiritual in balance with the physical. It's okay to want the latest iPhone and the latest tech products, but we shouldn't let it turn us into sell outs. And we shouldn't exploit people to get those things.

 

[Quiet]

These are just some of my ideas of some of the things that have been happening. It is based on thoughts, dreams and intuitions. I dont hold any of this to be 'true' and i dont 'believe', just something i feel and my creative interpretation of the sum of the information i currently have.

The Adam and Eve story is symbolic. It represents a shift in humanity's goals. Before this shift, humans were more aware of the 'true' nature of reality, conciousness and reality. We were able to live in peace with our environment because we understood it in a more holistic way. We understood that the environment was a part of us and we were a part of the greater environment. We were aware of the greater gestalt. There was less seperation between the inner and outer conciousness. we knew this pattern. We did not 'fear'. We did not struggle to survive. we did not feel pain in the way we do now. We did not understand hunger, there was always plenty. We were able to communicate with our inner selves, each other and the greater environment in a much more comprehensive way. Thus we were able to live in more harmony. we were still 'learning' and evolving, as we continue to do so, but in a very different way. We decided, as a collective of spiritual entities, to change the direction of our evolution and experiment with something different. Something we knew would dramatically change the course of our existance and teach us many new things about ourselves and the potential of creation. We developed an 'ego'. The development of the ego caused us to lose touch with some of our spiritual reality. We developed a new 'rational' frame of mind to perceive our new reality. We were suddenly separated from the enviroment. There was a chasm between the inner and outer worlds. We forgot much knowledge about the nature of reality and our creative ability. We forgot we are all fundamentally connected to each other. We began to 'fear'. This lead to seeing life on this plain in terms of 'survival', rather than 'living'.

Thus we began a new stage of conciousness, learning to percieve ourselves, each other and the environment in a completely different way. A previously peaceful, or neutral enviroment suddenly appeared hostile to us. We had forgotten how we create reality through our thoughts and beliefs. We struggled just to survive. We used our ego and our rational mind to perceive and interpret reality. This allowed us to learn many things and create all manner of new things that had previously been unthought off. We progressed in a different way. 'Technology' adavanced in way that could not have been previously, as our desires and needs changed. We worked to build our ego and develop our reason. To concentrate on the external outer layer of reality, with the inherent knowledge that we created that external reality now buried deep within us, for all intents and purposes, this knowledge became lost. It was never our goal to lose our spiritual reality and innate understanding of reality, this was more of a by product of the extreme fear that many felt in their new found struggle to survive. The inner world became more and more supressed as our fear led us to believe that our environment was hostile and life was about survival. We began to compete with each other and forged ridicuolus and ludacris concepts of inequality, seperation, ownerhip, possesion and greed. We tried to dominate our environment, believeing that nature was our enemy and something we needed to control and supress for our own ends. We could no longer see that nature was plentiful, only seeing as something to be conquered and enslaved. Something to exploit. We no longer understood that we were interconnected and the outer world reflected the inner world. We developed heirarchies, systems, ideologies, cultures, religions and societies. Some people remembered more than others. They tried to preserve this information through various means such as parables, mythology, symbolism and esoteric groups such as kaballah and the essenes. Peoples that were more in tune with the environment had a greater innate understanding of their true reality. There was less seperation for them. They yielded to nature and nature yielded to them. They lived more in harmony with each other and their environment. All of us hold this information deep within us, buried under other layers of our conciousness. We all collectively understand this, although it is not a priorty for everyone to seek this or to understand. Some others used this information to manipulate others, many others misintepret this information and use it in a harmful way to themselves and others from experiencing their true nature.

At different times through 'history' (because i technically dont believe in history as i see time only as a concept and not an inherent truth of reality) humans have strived to connect with their inner worlds. There have been various movements through out time and many religions that were borne from these efforts. Many great spiritual leaders that were chosen by us collectively have been born on this plain to deliver these messages. Jesus heralded in a new age of understanding and humanity. He marked the Age of Pieces, and came here to remind us all of what all know, buried deep inside of us. He spoke of brotherly love and establishing community, living in equality and peace. All in all, i do believe that all the religions misinterpreted the true knowledge and allowed it to evolve in dogma, law and twisted ideologies to control others. Buddhism contains more truth than most others, but even that has been warped through misinterpretation and efforts to control others. We were unable to trust our inner selves, to delve deep and see ourselves, so we used our faulty reason to create this religions.

I feel that we are now in the age of aquarius, which is the age of humanity. We will further evolve to develop our love for each other. We will remember more and more. There will be a powerful movement and cultural shift very soon. There will be a powerful leader that will usher in new information and many will see this person as the antichrist or otherwise sinister, as they will be unwilling to put past their dogma and open their hearts to love. But love will prevail. People will start remembering all manner of knowlege that they have forgotten- their inner reality, their past lives and knowledge of the Gestalt. This will be a dramatic shift and it will lead us into a new era of peace, love, collaboration and progress. This age will be about bringing the ego in harmony with our inner reality, our true nature.

 

[Billy]

I agree man. It's important to keep the spiritual in balance with the physical. It's okay to want the latest iPhone and the latest tech products, but we shouldn't let it turn us into sell outs. And we shouldn't exploit people to get those things.

What does that even mean? Keep a spiritual balance? I can easily say we need to keep a juju-magical-shamalamadingdong balance and that if we dont we will feel empty too, does that make juju-magical-shamalamadingdong balances real too?

 

[tfg345i4u5lw]

What does that even mean? Keep a spiritual balance? I can easily say we need to keep a juju-magical-shamalamadingdong balance and that if we dont we will feel empty too, does that make juju-magical-shamalamadingdong balances real too?

I agree I could have used a better word. When I say the "physical" I am talking about our animal side; the side that is competitive and greedy. The "spiritual" side is the side that appreciates selflessness and makes you feel like you have an obligation to people other than yourself, even if they aren't that close to you.

Hopefully that helps.

 

[Billy]

I agree I could have used a better word. When I say the "physical" I am talking about our animal side; the side that is competitive and greedy. The "spiritual" side is the side that appreciates selflessness and makes you feel like you have an obligation to people other than yourself, even if they aren't that close to you.

Hopefully that helps.

Then why say spiritual? Because both of those phenomenons are completely animal. You have never seen a mammal sacrifice itself for another member of its family? I think it would be better to say the mammalian part of us, or the reptilian part of us since those are the actual distinctions you are making... The human part of us is actually beyond emotion and beyond fear, the most human part of us is our rational mind and the ability to think and deduce things.