I am ashamed of how little my country has done to help the Syrian refugees

Obama has helped to “create a huge vacuum” in Iraq for terror groups like the Islamic State to flourish and kill by failing to secure an agreement with Iraqi leaders to keep U.S. troops in the country after the war."

I cut this out of an article and I think it sums it up pretty darn well. Though some people may not like being able to pinpoint an exact single point of failure can go a long way toward actually solving problems.
 
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I'm ashamed of my government too.

Today they printed this ad in Arabic newspapers:

Støjberg annonce.webp

Boo.
 
What happens when other countries accept all the refugees and all that is left are the people that caused them to run in the first place? You have a nation full of assholes and a lot of power. Then what?

I don't argue that people should be allowed to flee war torn areas but I also think that certain procedures are in place for a reason. There are a lot of logistics that come with safely bringing people into our countries. Then a long term strategy has to be considered.

I don't particularly like that people are being slaughtered and that they are dying trying to get safety. Those pictures are circulating to tear at the heart strings of people globally. But I do think that people have to think about the long term strategy to rectify what causes people to run in the first place while we're at it.
 
ezra said:
Reasonable? Charitable? Whatever happened to "give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free"?
Click to expand...

Still true but in this day and age there has to be a process to follow.
 
I had this elsewhere but feel it should be here instead.



refugeesandweapons.png
​

Combined, the 8 countries that sent the most weapons to Syria since 2011 only accepted 2 percent of the refugees Germany has taken in.
This $16 billion in so called “military aid” has been entering Syria since the beginning of the civil war in 2011, providing support for various warring factions within Syria.

Yet, the destruction these countries are waging on Syria comes not only in the form of war, but also in the callousness with which they treat those most affected by the war.
Many of these same countries fueling the slaughter have also been some of the least willing to grant amnesty to Syria’s refugees.
 
[video=youtube;ANGGYQlGbN4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ANGGYQlGbN4[/video]


I hate you people who sit smugly in your chair at home and say things like “It’s more complicated than you realize.”
Bottom line - people are running for their lives and the lives of their children…who wouldn’t do that same thing in that situation?
Yeah, it’s been going on for a long time…a lot of terrible things have been going on for a long time, but that doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t address it/or anything else with any less vigor and urgency when we can.

​
 
[video=youtube;lMW03wOVHpA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=lMW03wOVHpA[/video]​
 
Eventhorizon said:
Obama has helped to “create a huge vacuum” in Iraq for terror groups like the Islamic State to flourish and kill by failing to secure an agreement with Iraqi leaders to keep U.S. troops in the country after the war."

I cut this out of an article and I think it sums it up pretty darn well. Though some people may not like being able to pinpoint an exact single point of failure can go a long way toward actually solving problems.
Click to expand...


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S.–Iraq_Status_of_Forces_Agreement

This was Bush’s deal.
 
Skarekrow said:
I had this elsewhere but feel it should be here instead.



refugeesandweapons.png
​

Combined, the 8 countries that sent the most weapons to Syria since 2011 only accepted 2 percent of the refugees Germany has taken in.
This $16 billion in so called “military aid” has been entering Syria since the beginning of the civil war in 2011, providing support for various warring factions within Syria.

Yet, the destruction these countries are waging on Syria comes not only in the form of war, but also in the callousness with which they treat those most affected by the war.
Many of these same countries fueling the slaughter have also been some of the least willing to grant amnesty to Syria’s refugees.
Click to expand...

Canada looks pretty good compared to most those places in terms of the ratio of money sent vs refugees accepted.
 
Skarekrow said:
[video=youtube;ANGGYQlGbN4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ANGGYQlGbN4[/video]


I hate you people who sit smugly in your chair at home and say things like “It’s more complicated than you realize.”
Bottom line - people are running for their lives and the lives of their children…who wouldn’t do that same thing in that situation?
Yeah, it’s been going on for a long time…a lot of terrible things have been going on for a long time, but that doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t address it/or anything else with any less vigor and urgency when we can.

​
Click to expand...

It is complicated in terms of logistics, economics, politics, etc. It is not complicated on an individual human level when you see people suffering and want to help.

It is easy to feel bad for people and want to provide them asylum. It is not as easy for governments to open their borders to the masses without considering how it impacts the economy and the citizens already living there. This is not to say that I am against sheltering those who need it. It is to say that it doesn't matter what we FEEL in the moment because it requires more long term strategy and planning to bring people into the country but also to address why it is they have to flee in the first place and how to rectify that.

I don't think the solution is for there to be a mass exodus for war torn countries. It is a bandaid, but I do not think that most people want to have to uproot their entire lives. The most complicated part is addressing why countries are at war in this way and why people are being driven out to being with. The issue is that huge geographical areas now are uninhabitable. So what do we do?
 
I probably will get a lot of hate for saying this, but it doesn't matter because I feel like I need to say it anyway. :/

I'm scared for my country. Thousands and more and more thousands of people are now coming to here, Northern Europe. They're mostly young healthy looking men, where are all the children and women? Fighting in the Syria when at the same time their men are running away and leaving them behind? Is that fair?

Men, men and more men...

YVt5eOz.jpg


aqVEZV0.png

Source: http://weblog.iom.int/migrant-crisis-mediterranean-what-can-be-done


Why? Well, there are many reasons and ''the biggest reason'' that everyone think is that they are running away from Syria because of the war at there. I understand that... I understand that many of them are in a danger, scared and want to go to a country which is safe for them to live and have a better life for their families. In the end... Who doesn't want a safe life for them and their loved ones? Everyone wants and deserves that. BUT, there are some big issues now and this is something which makes me a bit scared.

If they would be in a real danger, hungry, thirsty and needing the help... Why they're throwing all this food and water to the ground? Happened in Hungary...

[video=youtube;G9tTOkAgEAI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9tTOkAgEAI[/video]

Reception center for immigrants was set on fire in Estonia:

4447037t81ha669.jpg

Source: http://www.virumaateataja.ee/3315507/pagulaskeskuse-elanik-polengukoha-juures-oli-olilaik

I understand that they might feel frustrated and angry etc. because of their situation but still... Is that acceptable? Really?

They're not all from Syria as you see... Also from Africa etc.

Now tents are too bad for them... Well, they're in a safe country, that is what should matter the most? Also when thinking about how many hundreds of them are coming, not all European countries are economically stable and prepared to give the best kind of help for them (my country is one of them). Especially how quickly this mass immigration happened, only in few days. Which also makes me think why only now? War in the Syria has been happening for some time now, so why they're only coming now?

[video=youtube;2wt8zvuWHwA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wt8zvuWHwA[/video]

Most of them wants to go to Germany, because Merkel seem to have given a message to them that they want them to there. Hungary is a safe country but no... It's not a good enough for them. There has even been this one Syrian man in the news here in my country that he traveled through Turkey, Greece, Macedonia, Germany, Denmark, Sweden to here: Finland. Aren't all those countries safe, eh? Why Sweden, Germany or Finland? Because they will get free health care, free schools, they will basically come to there because they know that our politicians and whoever else are welcoming them. They aren't stupid, they have paid thousands to get here (illegally). So the people who are in real danger, poor and maybe ill too have been left behind to Syria... Only the rich ones are coming. They know that Northern European countries have (almost) free welfare system and they want benefit from it too. Also even if these countries would have systems to get them to learn the language, go to school and work etc. still it would take many years before they are integrated here. Do we have money for them? My country is already economically in a bad place and it's going even more down... They said here that they have to build 5 new reception centers every WEEK so there's enough space for them. My country has already been cutting to half every possible allowance what you could even think about from the government. But now... Suddenly having millions to take care of these immigrants but what about your own citizens? We aren't important enough? I understand that something has to be done for them, since thousands of them are coming here and everywhere so suddenly, in such a short amount of time. All these countries aren't prepared for this... I am not a racist, by the way. I don't care if you are white, black, blue, yellow or from Mars. I don't care what is your religion or what language do you speak. It doesn't matter. What matters is... We don't have resources for this! No money, none! Maybe we have lot of space but really, money has ended a long time ago. And now we have to take care of them? What about the Dublin Regulation? Why no country doesn't follow it? These immigrants should be taken back to the safe European country where they came from (by the Dublin Regulation http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affair...asylum/examination-of-applicants/index_en.htm). Why we are responsible about them? Why no one takes care about the root cause/issue in the Syria or in the other countries? They just bring their problems to here... I don't want Europe to become another new war zone. :/

Also this happened few days ago in Sweden, in area of immigrants who have gotten permission to live there (I don't know how many years they have lived there already but.. but that's not the point):

96540-1.jpg

Source: http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/15-tal-bilar-har-satts-i-brand-i-ostberga/

I'm also afraid because I am a woman... And well, they can abuse sexually much often than the original citizen here. I'm not saying that all of them are rapers but somehow Islamic culture doesn't respect women in the way we more Western countries do. In this one research in my country, they have noticed that men from Somalia rape 17 times more than original citizens: http://www.optula.om.fi/material/at...imuksia-sarja/XZ5bk8f2H/265_Lehti_ym_2014.pdf Just one example, I'm not saying it's the truth.

I don't know... Whew, just needed to vent this out. I am sure some of you don't agree with me, it's fine. This is only my humble opinion about this issue and it's not the whole truth, only my (scared) opinion.

I'm just scared for Europe and for my country, that's all. :(
 
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I agree with many things you've brought up [MENTION=11100]flower[/MENTION]. Germany is going to take on 800.000 people. That's one large city - a lot of people! European economies are absolutely going to crash under the weight of having to provide for so many people. It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when and then we will see intense conflict escalation because people will fight for resources and these kinds of things are going to be a trigger for bad shit. If the richer economies are struggling with providing for them is there any wonder Hungary is frenetically building the fence? They're scared that if EU decides to enforce the Dublin resolution they and other poorer peripheral EU states will be straddled with taking care of these people and they can absolutely not afford it. Many people from the poorer EU states and states in the process of joining are themselves in position of wanting to emigrate to richer countries for better living standards. Many people in Europe right now are bitter because they think their governments are prioritizing the welfare of foreigners over their own citizens meanwhile the governments are torn between knowing hard economical realities and having to cater to their PR image and do the right thing by helping out refugees hence why the hot potato is being passed from one set of hands to another, without a good solution.

Having borders indiscriminately open is a huge security liability. The refugees are refusing to have their identities verified, refusing to be finger printed, first in Hungary, now in Denmark. There's no telling how many bad apples are smuggling themselves into Europe and not enough people seem to care about this, the ones that do are vilified by media for torturing refugees. Meanwhile Syrian passports are being sold to economic migrants because it's now common knowledge anyone claiming to be Syrian is given free entry.

I'm following the situation with a lot interest. It will be a wild ride for everyone involved, I think. Somehow I cannot imagine Aus, U.S, Canada nor Russia will volunteer to take any refugees.
 
I already sent this as PM to flower because my post was accidentally deleted before posting, but here it is.

The majority of these 'Migrants' are indeed young men in their 20s and come from countries, mostly in the Middle East in which Islam is the dominate religion, culture, lifestyle and source for all ethics, values and principles. What I am astonished to discover is how violent these men have been responding to the food, water and shelter they have received by the Hungarian authorities. I have watched several videos of hordes of men rioting in the streets, waving flags of their origin country and screaming 'Allahu akbar' and setting fire to the roads. The needs of the Syrian refugees are being indiscriminately undermined by the 'needs' of selfish, racist, bigoted, violent, sectarian religious military-men in their droves rioting because they don't have a free ticket to any country they think they can pick and choose to live in for free.

The people of this forum are blatantly ignoring the real source of the crisis. Islamic State and Assad are pushing the Syrians to their limits, and will now claim even more land, infrastructure and strategic resources because these men are fleeing their lands to settle in more flourished countries in the West. Do you know why we are so easy to allow this to happen? Firstly, the United Kingdom, along with other EU member-states voted not to take action in Syria in 2013, just as ISIS began claiming territory, murdering or force-converting all non-Muslims and destroying people's homes. The reason this happened was because of the moral outrage expressed from the social media brigade and the 'anti-war' brigade in Britain at the time, these are the people that seem to think that whatever problems that destroy Middle East countries post 9/11, it is the West that is to blame based on our invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan in 2001 and 2003 respectively. What they sanctimoniously do not understand is that those two wars are completely legally and morally justified, but they are so wrapped up in their only delusional world of social media that they do not take into account logic and facts when it comes to these crises. Now Europe is paying a heavy price for not doing something about Syria, and not preparing full military action against ISIS.

We're going to see a lot more terrorist attacks on our cities, we are going to see a lot more bloodshed both in the Middle East and in Europe because of the awful knee-jerk reactive decisions being made here. This crisis proves that Western public opinion is capitulationist and will appease our enemies, and proves that we have completely forgotten why we are what we are today. Our ancestors that fought for the protection and freedoms we now take for granted will be dancing in their graves if they knew what sort of decisions we were taking with these men that wish to destroy our way of life. The vote to not take intervention in Syria was the worst decision that we ever took post-9/11.
 
Eventhorizon said:
Hardly. Here you are eating false information again. This is very clear and straight forward. .
Click to expand...

Prove it.
I linked what I provided, now prove it.
Quit talking and flapping your mouth all the time and prove it.
 
Peppermint said:
I agree with many things you've brought up [MENTION=11100]flower[/MENTION]. Germany is going to take on 800.000 people. That's one large city - a lot of people! European economies are absolutely going to crash under the weight of having to provide for so many people. It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when and then we will see intense conflict escalation because people will fight for resources and these kinds of things are going to be a trigger for bad shit. If the richer economies are struggling with providing for them is there any wonder Hungary is frenetically building the fence? They're scared that if EU decides to enforce the Dublin resolution they and other poorer peripheral EU states will be straddled with taking care of these people and they can absolutely not afford it. Many people from the poorer EU states and states in the process of joining are themselves in position of wanting to emigrate to richer countries for better living standards. Many people in Europe right now are bitter because they think their governments are prioritizing the welfare of foreigners over their own citizens meanwhile the governments are torn between knowing hard economical realities and having to cater to their PR image and do the right thing by helping out refugees hence why the hot potato is being passed from one set of hands to another, without a good solution.

Having borders indiscriminately open is a huge security liability. The refugees are refusing to have their identities verified, refusing to be finger printed, first in Hungary, now in Denmark. There's no telling how many bad apples are smuggling themselves into Europe and not enough people seem to care about this, the ones that do are vilified by media for torturing refugees. Meanwhile Syrian passports are being sold to economic migrants because it's now common knowledge anyone claiming to be Syrian is given free entry.

I'm following the situation with a lot interest. It will be a wild ride for everyone involved, I think. Somehow I cannot imagine Aus, U.S, Canada nor Russia will volunteer to take any refugees.
Click to expand...

Yes, I've heard about it too, 800.000 is way too many people! European countries aren't prepared for this in anyway and many countries are already in a bad state economically, can't even take care of their own citizens and now suddenly need to take care thousands of illegal immigrants? Because that's what they are doing, coming illegally. I thought money still doesn't grow in trees? :P Lol... It seems like many people believe in such way. >< Much more criminality will start happening if politicians won't start doing right decisions. What I've seen, they seem extremely frustrated and full of anger. As you said, they move illegally from one country to another and there's no way that we could pick the bad apples from the good ones. You only need few bad apples to get chaos. I can understand why Hungary is scared... There's just too many of them and this isn't the right way to help Syria or the other countries. We can't help Syria by getting everyone from Syria to HERE. It doesn't help them in any way. It's like moving the problem from one place to another, it's not the best way to help them. We just sadly can't take all of them here. :/ Because if they will get permission to get their families from Syria coming after them to Europe, that's just hundreds of thousands people more! Yeah, governments are only thinking refugees right now, they should be thinking about the long-distance impacts too. Yeah, they seem to refuse any official papers, finger prints etc. Isn't that questionable?

This situation is surely very interesting. I hope it just will have a good end result for everyone, for the refugees and all European countries.
 
SpecialEdition said:
It is complicated in terms of logistics, economics, politics, etc. It is not complicated on an individual human level when you see people suffering and want to help.

It is easy to feel bad for people and want to provide them asylum. It is not as easy for governments to open their borders to the masses without considering how it impacts the economy and the citizens already living there. This is not to say that I am against sheltering those who need it. It is to say that it doesn't matter what we FEEL in the moment because it requires more long term strategy and planning to bring people into the country but also to address why it is they have to flee in the first place and how to rectify that.

I don't think the solution is for there to be a mass exodus for war torn countries. It is a bandaid, but I do not think that most people want to have to uproot their entire lives. The most complicated part is addressing why countries are at war in this way and why people are being driven out to being with. The issue is that huge geographical areas now are uninhabitable. So what do we do?
Click to expand...


When I see our country move the largest military to a specific country that it wants to attack…Iraq, Afghanistan…and they can do it pretty damn fast.
And I see all the money just thrown in the garbage by them as waste….did you know we blew up half the vehicles in Afghanistan because it was cheaper than flying them home?
And yet, we as supposedly civilized countries cannot mobilize a mass humanitarian aid?
I find our priorities disgusting and morally reprehensible on a human level.
 
Skarekrow said:
When I see our country move the largest military to a specific country that it wants to attack…Iraq, Afghanistan…and they can do it pretty damn fast.
And I see all the money just thrown in the garbage by them as waste….did you know we blew up half the vehicles in Afghanistan because it was cheaper than flying them home?
And yet, we as supposedly civilized countries cannot mobilize a mass humanitarian aid?
I find our priorities disgusting and morally reprehensible on a human level.
Click to expand...

Meh. We are not responsible for taking care of the world and never were. What makes me sick is the massive amount of money we give to other countries for aid and other things that we could be using for our own.
 
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