I don't usually get ANGRY, but...%#@%&*#

[Poetic Justice]

Glad there is someone on here whome I can relate to on this. My dad is one which was found out during couples therapy with his wife, only to prove that she was a 'sick' one. In fact, he is the one with the problem which in fact makes perfect sense to me, and explains alot of his behaviours towards me.

It is a traumatic experience for anyone to have contact with a narcissist. To be raised by one must have been awful. I truly relate. The best advice I could give is that you take everything he has ever said to you, everything he has ever told you is true and discard it. When he speaks to you just let the words just pass over you, having no effect on anything you think. I know this is hard when it is your dad but I still think this is what you should do

 

[Shai Gar]

Regarding Karma. You should read one of the quotes on Shai Gar's signature. It goes:

Originally Posted by Satya
The biggest mistake that religious people make is that they believe certainty in their faith is proof of its correctness.

I love that you call it "One of the quotes on Shai Gars Signature" instead of, "you should read Satyas quote".

 

[Poetic Justice]

I thought it would be easier to find if I put it like that. I couldn't possibly expect anyone to find the post that this is from. But it can be seen on any of your posts.

 

[Soulful]

The vast majority of narcissists don't seek help for their condition because by definition they don't think they need help. they think they are superior to everyone else (the least in need of help). Plus they would have to be honest to a counsillor. Something I can't imagine my brother being.

yes I know you mentioned something similar to the quote on Shai Gar's signature, but that raises the question: If you understand this point, why do you believe in karma anyway?

Oh, I see what you mean about the counseling. That's too bad.

Why do I believe in karma? Because I want to, I guess. It fits in with the rest of my beliefs, and they make sense to me. I like them - they fit with my philosophy of life and offer me some answers to questions I have.
I know that my beliefs may not be "correct" - maybe there is no karma; maybe we don't reincarnate; maybe when I die (or at some point while alive) I'll find out that I am way off base. I'd like to believe that my beliefs ARE what IS. I trust them, I trust my inner knowing, and I trust what I've learned from reading, others. But at the same time, I feel compelled to always keep in mind that maybe they're not. I don't know if that means that I doubt my beliefs or speaks to me wanting to be/being open-minded. Either way, at this point, it works for me.

I try not to normalize my beliefs and apply them for others as though they are universal because I know that they are not. I hope I didn't do that with my posts to you. I was trying not to. I just wanted to explain how I saw things differently, that's all.

And you were joking, and I kinda missed that initially.

I see your mood reads angry - I hope these posts didn't frustrate you. I can't recall if most of them were from today or yesterday, it's been a long day.

 

[Poetic Justice]

Even though I don't agree with you I respect how open minded you seem to be. Everyone is entitled to their beliefs, I don't begrudge anyone their opinions unless they are closed off to all reason. You aren't. I do find it strange though that you state many of the arguments I would state against your beliefs, and then state that you believe it anyway. How do you reconcile this in yourself?

I'm not angry at you at all, I'm angry at the people on that theology forum. the one being discussed on the "are men better than women" thread.

 

[Soulful]

I do find it strange though that you state many of the arguments I would state against your beliefs, and then state that you believe it anyway. How do you reconcile this in yourself?

Thanks! I do try to be open-minded.

How? Uhhhh... I'm not sure what you mean - I feel pretty wiped out right now though, so maybe that's why. I'll take a look through our posts and get back to you later. It's interesting you say that, I'm curious to see what you mean.

 

[Poetic Justice]

This is what I mean. You wrote these statements:

"my reason is really not an argument, it has no backbone (rationally/logically-speaking). But I just believe it does."

"I don't like it when people use their beliefs as logic/justification for something, because if they are speaking with someone who doesn't share those beliefs then that argument is really null."

"Why do I believe in karma? Because I want to"

And then after I posted this quote.......

Originally Posted by Satya
The biggest mistake that religious people make is that they believe certainty in their faith is proof of its correctness.

You wrote this:

"Yes, I like that quote, I've seen it in Shai's signature. I thought I addressed the same point in my post, a few times... "


In my opinion you have disproved your own beliefs with these statements. I don't know what else to say because you clearly understand the arguments I would put across to disprove your theory. Yet you believe it anyway. I don't understand how you can reconcile this in yourself

 

[Soulful]

Poetic, I think I admitted the possibility that I could be mistaken in my beliefs. That admission is based on my belief that I don't have those answers. I can speculate, dream, wish, rationalize, debate, scrutinize, and so on, but regardless, I could still arrive at an incorrect conclusion. Given that, I think it's equally true that I may be in-the-know.

I believe because I want to. For me, it goes beyond logic/rationalization. I think I would feel that I am lying to myself if I chose not to believe, if I listened to (what in my case) would be my voice of cynicism and doubt. I have formed the majority of my beliefs based on what I have read and how I felt/what I thought about that, and conversations/experiences that I have had.

I believe what I believe because I want to. Because it feels incredible. Because it feels like the closest thing to the truth that I have ever known in my entire life. Because it brings out the best in me and because of that, I live a more fulfilling, empowered, joyful life. I become more fulfilled, empowered, and joyful - and other people benefit from that too. Because it just feels so wonderful... for so many reasons. And it satisfies a need deep within me.

I could continue on and on... At the end of the day, I don't know how to NOT want to believe... It's my oxygen.

 

[Bored Now]

The vast majority of narcissists don't seek help for their condition because by definition they don't think they need help. they think they are superior to everyone else (the least in need of help). Plus they would have to be honest to a counsillor. Something I can't imagine my brother being.

yes I know you mentioned something similar to the quote on Shai Gar's signature, but that raises the question: If you understand this point, why do you believe in karma anyway?

This is a bit OT but weird! That's actually how I found this forum googling narcissism NPD and infj. Of course Shai Gar's name came up first. I'm not sure what to make of that! *cheeky grin.. looks innocent* (Just teasing Shai!)

But I digress, my mom suffers (Or rather everyone around her suffers, she thinks she's great) from NPD. I was reading a lot about it, because she's up to her *antics* again and I wanted somewhere to vent. Then I got curious if INFJ's tend to attract narcissists or if my personality is just the by product of her dysfunction. (Even she admits we are pretty much polar opposites) I'm still not sure.