Idolization and Idealistic Fantasies

[Deleted member 16771]

The same one as you. I just really like quotes man.

Lol.

I was going to say - I'm making a distinction between admiring the virtues that individuals manage to practice, and idolising/elevating the individuals themselves.

 

[Peppermint]

I've admired people, but they just tend to rise to the level of equal in my esteem, and I'm not sure that it's possible to exceed that. In fact, I find the notion of 'exceeding that' pretty abhorrent.

Does that assume a scale of inferior --> equal --> superior?

 

[Deleted member 16771]

Does that assume a scale of inferior --> equal --> superior?

No, because fundamentally 'I' am not part of the scale, and therefore the qualities of 'inferior-equal-superior' don't really make sense.

I think what's going on is something like a judgement of individuals according to their fulfilment of a set of objective/external criteria. These criteria might be values that I, subjectively, hold, but I'm not really a participant in my own mind when I'm making these judgements.

I can judge myself by this same, external scale, and therefore it's possible to triangulate some kind comparison, but that's not the subjective experience I'm having, and thus probably why I find idolisation so strange.

I can describe it as somewhat akin to how a coach might feel when picking a team. He's not a 'player', but he decides who meets the standard to be 'on the team'. In my case, I've described this standard above as 'equal'. By this analogy, it's not really possible to be 'better' or 'superior to' being 'on the team'.

 

[Quiet]

Pursuing self-love has been difficult for me. In the past, I felt as though I didn't have a sense of self unless I had the approval of others. That was a disingenuous way of living and yet I thought I was being true to myself.

Self love is difficult yet its critical and becomes the easiest thing in the world with practice. I think some of us (including myself) became conditioned by certain messages from our caregivers/environment at any early age. Its about analysing and undoing that programming.
And then self love.....if you cant love yourself, how can we love anyone else? Or expect anyone else to love us? We owe it to ourselves to try and to care, to be on our side no matter what, to give that grace and compassion.
Its strange because i'm a people pleaser but i don't care about anyone's approval. Sure people can make my life difficult or sucky through their disapproval...but i think most people have no idea what they're doing and believe some weird stuff....worse a lot of people never even ask themselves why they think/feel/do what they do....so i just don't care what they think of me because i guess i'm too self righteous and judgemental. I grew up believing my parents were insane and with them believing I was insane. Now i think we're all insane lol and each to their own

In wanting to give people the benefit of the doubt, in the past I've fallen for narcissists (or, perhaps narcissistic people since I have no authority diagnosing people). They're magnetic to me. I feel the happiest when I am able to make someone else feel good, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but when I sought the attention of someone I admired, I behaved in ways I normally wouldn't.

Yes, i can relate to this somewhat and i think it has to do with survival instincts adapted in an environment of learned helplessness- we freeze and fawn if we can't fight or flee.

I admire your positivity.

I'm a bit of a cynic, to be honest and I kinda like being that way.

I like your cynicism. You don't necessarily come across as cynical through your words on screen....more like you're really pushing the envelope and being 'full assed' rather than half assed in your exploration of concepts and ideas. That is cool. I liked what you said in the other thread about your relationship to Self/God.

I've had personal heroes in the past but I got burned often enough to make me apprehensive. Usually it was over something they did that I disapproved of (generally with good reason). Nowadays, I'm making efforts to appreciate an individuals work over their personal selves, and save my admiration for people in my immediate vicinity since those are the ones who truly affect my life.

Yes, there's a reason we get burnt. And we're all just human, fumbling around, hurting each other and ourselves...sometimes inspiring, learning etc
I think it's hard for me to turn off the love and admiration because i really do feel we are all children of God. Regardless of why we're all here, the fact is we are in it together. I can't help but think people are pretty cool...everyone is so unique and honestly interesting. Even the people who have caused me the greatest damage have been instrumental in my life. This doesn't change how i feel about accountability for actions and being discerning in judgement...i'm not going to that hellhole again....but i can safely say I can't seem to hold a grudge...even when i desperately want to.

Haha, are you me? I really liked a few metal bands in the past but some concerts of certain bands revealed the artists to be - like you said - arrogant dickheads with smelly, kinda violent fans. Gotta respect the hustle but I stay home these days

Only on Thursdays...I go by Rob

 

[Pin]

Do you all experience something like this?

Well, I don't really idolize people anymore. There's nobody who never did anything wrong. Except maybe Jesus. So I guess Jesus is my default hero. But the problem with that is that Jesus is also God. It's not fair to compare anyone to Jesus because they will always fall short or let you down in some way.

Have you ever "met your heroes" and was disappointed they weren't what you thought?

A lot, the more I read about individuals in history, the less appealing I find them.

I'll never have any respect for an unapologetic bastard though. Getting angry, cursing at people, or even violence can be the easy way out a lot of the time.

Also, I like myself these days a lot more than most historical figures. I have an exceptional amount of patience, will-power, fortitude, courage, and boldness.

I overcame exceptional odds to pursue the opportunities I've had. Furthermore, I don't quit even when times get tough. I'm awesome. I've managed to stay in decent shape during COVID, managed to secure another quality opportunity, and will more in the future.

Furthermore, in my infinite narcissism, I've managed to stay exceptionally humble. I acknowledge that I lose sometimes. I acknowledge that not everyone likes me. I acknowledge that life is not easy.

I should be a hero for most people. I should at least be made a moderator here just so I can resign from the position. I don't even want the job anyway.

 

[InfernoMink]

I don’t idolize any public figure. I admire the creativity of many but I wouldn’t put up their photos in my home. The reason I never have been in awe of celebrities is because in my ridiculous delusion, I have always felt like I’m supposed to be famous but now i know it’s just my strange mind talking that dumb shit.

 

[Ren]

There are many figures I admire but none (I don't think) I've ever idolised.

Just in the sense that I've never had an emotional reaction to those figures being critiqued.

 

[Roses In The Vineyard]

To like something of or something a person has done or character in general sure but never to what is often observed in society where things get a bit on the creepy side. The worst I've seen it beyond the usual celebrity worship is people acting as if their choice politician or religious figure ect being like idols of old in high places where basically it is like their God though in human form as seen with the past election.