Barnabas
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Tell me, if I am correct, then is it not my duty to relate this to everyone in earshot.
[important] need your help for a sermon
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Tell me, if I am correct, then is it not my duty to relate this to everyone in earshot.
poshlost
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Haha, I can never get used to how feeble-minded Christian self-righteousness is.
TinyBubbles
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love
(don't read too much into that)
(don't read too much into that)
Barnabas
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Your really out to start stuff today aren't you.
Barnabas
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Tell that to the pharisees.
Matthew 12:1-8
Matthew 12:22-33
Matthew 16:1-4
You couldn't possibly be more wrong. Pharisees thought they understood God and the Law, so they argued with Jesus thinking to outsmart him only to be made fools at every turn.
acd
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I mean he had no ego. I was specifically referring to Pilate taunting him, btw. He saw the fruitlessness in trying to impress Pilate and save face.
His message was bigger than his pride.
He had no pride.
It's something to aspire to. I find it inspiring because it takes such discipline and spirituality to obtain.
I don't identify as a Christian, but I do have something of a soft spot for the person of Jesus in the gospels... and to be frank, I do not perceive him to be a fire and brimstone God--if indeed he is God.
I am appalled by Christiandom but inspired by Jesus. I do not think highly of the Christian culture as a whole.
His message was bigger than his pride.
He had no pride.
It's something to aspire to. I find it inspiring because it takes such discipline and spirituality to obtain.
I don't identify as a Christian, but I do have something of a soft spot for the person of Jesus in the gospels... and to be frank, I do not perceive him to be a fire and brimstone God--if indeed he is God.
I am appalled by Christiandom but inspired by Jesus. I do not think highly of the Christian culture as a whole.
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Barnabas
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Pilate didn't bad mouth him, he did have him scourged and crucified. But even Pilate said that he "could find no fault in him"
I don't like to debate, I believe that the Gospel is very rarely communicated effectively through it(I even made a thread a while back stating that debate is fairly pointless). But I can not sit by and watch the Gospel be defaced either, Jesus message is to big and to important to be watered down or misspoken.
poshlost
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Lay the truth on our collective shoulders and we shall carry it to Golgotha.
acd
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Who is defacing the gospel?
Barnabas
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Most recently, you and John Shelby Sponge. By making incorrect statements and watering down the message of the gospel by replacing it with some new age spiritual theology.
You made Jesus out to be someone who he was not, even if you were trying to do so in a positive way.
Sponge teaches completely against Jesus message instead going with something watered down to make it more palatable.
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acd
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I haven't even said anything about the gospel. I talked about love in a thread... and I said I admired Jesus. I said I was not a christian or not even sure I believe in God. But apparently, unless I mindlessly agree with you my opinion and thoughts don't matter. I'm not the one proselytizing here. How do you know who Jesus is? Because someone else told you? You don't know anything more about God than I do. Christian, agnostic, or worshipper of a flying spaghetti monster.
You don't have any answers. It's obvious by the arrogance you display here--which was my point to begin with.
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Moya Anomalous
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Your all fools, from the so called Christian to the Atheist.
When the Jewish "religion" was started, it was not a focus on religion but a school, no different then our schools today, if not better. It incorporate sheer reason into its teachings and God himself established it's principles.
You preachers are guilty of teaching twisted doctrine and reducing the word of the lord into sophisticated pan-handling. You prey upon guilt and morals to fuel your ministry. The Word of God is about wisdom and reason, and every one of his commandments have scientific evidence and reason to support the causes for his commandments.
Job 28:28 KJV And unto man he said, Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom; and to depart from evil is understanding.
Proverbs 4:7 KJV Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.
Deuteronomy 4:5-9 KJV Behold, I have taught you statutes and judgments, even as the LORD my God commanded me, that ye should do so in the land whither ye go to possess it. (6) Keep therefore and do them; for this is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the nations, which shall hear all these statutes, and say, Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people. (7) For what nation is there so great, who hath God so nigh unto them, as the LORD our God is in all things that we call upon him for? (8) And what nation is there so great, that hath statutes and judgments so righteous as all this law, which I set before you this day? (9) Only take heed to thyself, and keep thy soul diligently, lest thou forget the things which thine eyes have seen, and lest they depart from thy heart all the days of thy life: but teach them thy sons, and thy sons' sons;
Ecclesiastes 12:9 KJV And moreover, because the preacher was wise, he still taught the people knowledge; yea, he gave good heed, and sought out, and set in order many proverbs.
Repent, for you have become as the Pharisees...
When the Jewish "religion" was started, it was not a focus on religion but a school, no different then our schools today, if not better. It incorporate sheer reason into its teachings and God himself established it's principles.
You preachers are guilty of teaching twisted doctrine and reducing the word of the lord into sophisticated pan-handling. You prey upon guilt and morals to fuel your ministry. The Word of God is about wisdom and reason, and every one of his commandments have scientific evidence and reason to support the causes for his commandments.
Job 28:28 KJV And unto man he said, Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom; and to depart from evil is understanding.
Proverbs 4:7 KJV Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.
Deuteronomy 4:5-9 KJV Behold, I have taught you statutes and judgments, even as the LORD my God commanded me, that ye should do so in the land whither ye go to possess it. (6) Keep therefore and do them; for this is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the nations, which shall hear all these statutes, and say, Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people. (7) For what nation is there so great, who hath God so nigh unto them, as the LORD our God is in all things that we call upon him for? (8) And what nation is there so great, that hath statutes and judgments so righteous as all this law, which I set before you this day? (9) Only take heed to thyself, and keep thy soul diligently, lest thou forget the things which thine eyes have seen, and lest they depart from thy heart all the days of thy life: but teach them thy sons, and thy sons' sons;
Ecclesiastes 12:9 KJV And moreover, because the preacher was wise, he still taught the people knowledge; yea, he gave good heed, and sought out, and set in order many proverbs.
Repent, for you have become as the Pharisees...
myself
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You should preach about hell.
Explain to the people that God wants to torture their souls for all eternity, unless they repent of their wicked ways. Also they gotta be baptized.
FULL IMMERSION
And they should also receive the gift of the holy ghost... the evidence of which is speaking in tongues.
Yes.
Without the tongues, and the full immersion baptism, and the confession of Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour...
It's hell to pay.
What message could be more important?
Just get those people saved!
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF6I5VSZVqc&feature=player_embedded"]YouTube - 'Hell' as an invention of the church[/ame]
Explain to the people that God wants to torture their souls for all eternity, unless they repent of their wicked ways. Also they gotta be baptized.
FULL IMMERSION
And they should also receive the gift of the holy ghost... the evidence of which is speaking in tongues.
Yes.
Without the tongues, and the full immersion baptism, and the confession of Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour...
It's hell to pay.
What message could be more important?
Just get those people saved!
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF6I5VSZVqc&feature=player_embedded"]YouTube - 'Hell' as an invention of the church[/ame]
Barnabas
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You stated a state something that was incorrect, you might as well said two plus two equals five. Even if it wasn't intentional, it was still wrong. But the vast majority of people don't read enough of the bible to even know they've been told. When was the last time you actually opened up a bible and did a serious study of the people, culture and language involved.
The reason I know about this stuff is because I've been going to school learn about the people, the culture and the language involved. I've devoted my life to knowing and teaching about these things.
But even what I do know is far from inaccessible to every one here. Stop searching google and you tube to find out things about Jesus and open up your Bible. Start at Luke then go to Acts, and from there, anywhere else.
I can't hold you formulating your own opinions about God wrong when you actually take time to get to know him. But listening to me or John Shelby Sponge isn't going to be enough.
Your throwing around a lot of scripture, but I'm not sure in accordance to what. That we as preachers are supposed to have reason and intellect. I wouldn't disagree, but to say that this is the only and primary thought of the Jewish people is simply incorrect.
Alright let's talk about Hell. The most common conception of Hell does not exist in the Bible, the one that people think of as a fiery pit of never ending torture. This concept first showed up around the dark ages and was propped by the hell fire and brimstone preaching of the 1800's and the 1900's.
The bible relates Hell in a very different way, though it never uses the word.
first in Matthew 22:1-14
The most commonly used phrase for hell is Gehenna, Gehenna was the garbage pit outside the gates of Jerusalem.
One of the last pictures we get of what Hell looks like is in Luke 16:19-31
This story gives us the picture of a rich man and a man named Lazarus. Lazarus was a poor man who went to heaven while the rich man went to hell. This is illustrated by having the two separated by a great chasm split them apart, with the rich man suffering and the Lazarus comfortably with Moses beside him.
In all of the stories two things are shared in common, the firs being that all of the share the idea of separation, separation from the party, separation from Jerusalem and separation from the good.
the second is that every place outside of the heaven is uncomfortable at best, with the common phrase "weeping and gnashing of teeth" be used commonly.
so we can can conclude that hell is both a place separate of heaven and therefore separate from God and that it is not an enjoyably place to be in the slightest.
Finally your concepts about salvation are wrong, starting with God wanting people to go to hell. Scripture states that God is waiting for as many people as possible.
Secondly, Baptism, I've yet to come to a conclusion on the necessity of Baptism for salvation. What I can say about it is that it is a requirement, Jesus said go out and Baptize, that was an imperative command. So regardless of what kind of baptism you think is right, we know that baptism in an of itself is required.
The mode of baptism is another tricky thing, secondary forms started creeping up again in the middle ages, firs the idea of sprinkling and then the idea of infant immersion.
Sprinkling is never found in the Bible, all accounts for baptism are of full immersions. So I would put my finger out to guess that even if it isn't necessary to to have the "correct" form of baptism, it's the biblical way and the way Jesus was baptized. Seeing as we are to imitate Christ I would wager that we should be baptized in the same fashion as him.
However I would decline to say that your going to hell if you were sprinkled.
Moving on to infant baptism, Once again this is a tradition founded in medieval times and not found in the Bible. The baptizing of infants was done because people were worried that their infant children would go to hell if they weren't baptized.
I'm highly opposed of the nature of this baptism. Baptism is part of an individual committing their life to God, it is a decision they have to make on their own when they believe they are ready. By making a child that cannot reason on it's own do this, you have essentially taken that decision out of your child's hands and made it for them.
I do believe that an infant that is baptized should be baptized again at a later date, under their own discretion.
Regardless of whether or not it's mandatory for salvation, Jesus commanded us to be baptized. That in and of it'self should be enough for any Christian to understand that they need to do it.
Speaking in tongues is an interesting thing, I recently shared a dorm with a man whom was a pentecostal Christian. I asked him why he believed that every one should speak in tongues.He responded more or less saying that it was in the Bible. He showed me were several people whom after baptism spoke in tongues. He and the rest of the church took this as meaning that every one should be able to speak in tongues as a sign of having the holy spirit.
This concept is simply people jumping to conclusion and making scripture say things that it doesn't say. In the book of Galatians it lists the fruit of the spirit. Basically it's a list of traits that a Christian should have and how other should be able to identify if a person is a Christian or not. Tongues is not found among the list.
However you are correct on possibly the most important thing, a confession of Jesus Christ as Lord is the only way to heaven. No getting around it.
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Well said! I truly wish that Christians (myself included!) would be more like Jesus. Say what you have to say to those who will listen, and don't worry about the rest. Don't worry about the results, don't worry about those who won't listen (that's on them, not the speaker). I find endless arguing to be so very tiring, and it's sad that Christians are so often looking for a fight and then claiming "oh woe is me for the world hates me!"
Umm, I'm not trying to bash you Barnabas, I'm ranting about Christianity as a whole in North America.