INFJ and Spirituality

I'm highly spiritual. I think it can be chalked up to being an NF.

I'm not sure if it can be in part due to my religious upbringing, or in spite of it. Ever since I was young, I always felt that, as I was sitting in church, that this was all wrong. That it wasn't for me, his message. That I have my own very specific message that I must follow, go through with my own dreams. And I see a few of them being realized every so often. My mom chalks it up to the "power of prayer", but I feel it's otherwise. I felt this spiritual pull to something from a young age, and I dislike going to church because I feel that it pulls me away from that. So my mom makes me go every Sunday, but I try my best to resist the message, because it is only a half-truth in my eyes and not the full truth. Resist the lies.

My faith is in people and what they can do. People create and destroy. People kill and make love. It's a beautiful continuum. You can't have happy without sad.
I believe in waking up to my favorite song.
I believe in a nice bike ride.
I believe in having a nice conversation with someone on the train.
I believe in a nice conversation in general.
I believe in beautiful sunny days.

I hope you get my point :)
 
Spirituality is so personal and needs to be experienced personally... That's one of the things bothering me with religions. I do not believe in ready-made-dogmas. I think they're as much a portrait of personal spirituality.

I do understand the evolutionary point of view, but what I'm contemplating is, if we think of it in reason, what is the reason behind there being something? There could as well be nothing. It may be a coincidence, the big bang, and all universes come to an end at some point, and new ones created, start and an end to everything, but then, if there is no reason, wouldn't that mean there wouldn't be no movement at all? Cause something to be always needs energy, and energy is always created by something, in a chain of events. It needs a spark. What causes the first spark? Who moved the first stone kind of fashion. If there was no reason, there'd be nothing. There'd be sloth, cause sloth has no reason.

We've made God as that interpretation, a picture of ourself, that we can't see into. We're supposedly pictures of God, but much more imperfect. But our capacity to see beyond our own reasoning and faith is so limited, we can't comprehend the ultimate farther now than acknowledging the borders of our understanding. We can't reason our ways out of it. Atheists are just in much of a dilemma as are those who base their beliefs in religions.

It might be a coincidence, but nothing exists without a reason. It can be seen in every level.

What I appreciate is the seek - cause this is my own personal seeking, and I try to find the truth from beyond all that is presented and there's always room for development and I take every single information and view into account in forming and developing my own view.

Like Bataille said, I believe truth has only one face - that of a violent contradiction.

And then again, there are no contradictions.
 
Our reasons for things are different from the reason why things exist. We act to complete/improve ourselves. The cause of existence (whatever you wish to call that cause) is unchanged by and gains nothing from causing. There is a reason why things/the universe exist, but that reason is too simple for us to understand.
 
I've been away for the past couple of days so haven't been able to keep up with this thread, but I'm delighted to see more people joining in the discussion.

Maybe we are more prone to it, simply because we always look for a deeper answer, when it is impossible to find an absolutely 100% factual answer, therefore we turn towards religion.

Also I think our upbringing does have something to do with what we believe. When told something repeatedly as a small child by your parents of whoever, of course your going to believe it, and even when your grown up enough to think for yourself, it's kind of embedded in you.

My parents are atheist, and I am atheist.

People are products of there environment.
 
Flavus Aquila said:
Our reasons for things are different from the reason why things exist. We act to complete/improve ourselves. The cause of existence (whatever you wish to call that cause) is unchanged by and gains nothing from causing. There is a reason why things/the universe exist, but that reason is too simple for us to understand.
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I agree, I think the simplicity of our existence- to simply reproduce and evolve and so on, is just not satisfying enough for the human mind, particularly not the INFJ mind. Therefore we look for something deeper when it's just not there, or whatever is there is just far too advanced for us to even be able to comprehend; like a fifth dimension to us- we just can't imagine it.

I think that's what your getting at . . . but I might be wrong.
 
sdraguer said:
Funny. I was atheist for a while when I lived in my INFJness denial bubble, but that's excatly how I would describe myself, as spiritual, as opposed to religious. I don't follow any religion but to me being spiritual means believing into something, whatever the form it may have, for religions it's god, but it can be reason, a mover, a motive - just something, I'd like to think a reason. What's the reason there is anything? If there wasn't a reason, wouldn't there be nothing, no existence, no development, no movement. But as I think all religions have got that idea but as I don't necessarily relate to their view altogether I wouldn't call myself religious but spiritual.

I get in touch with the spiritual side in myself when I'm for example in the nature - a certain oneness and peace, the most natural state there is.
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you took the words right out of my mouth! :m200:
I have always felt a need to muse and think about religion and God and, although I am agnostic at the moment, I like to research all types of religions and would definately describe myself as 'spiritual'.

However, if you don't, I shouldn't think that makes you any less of an INFJ
Remember, that there are different strengths of each part.
 
''Also I think our upbringing does have something to do with what we believe. When told something repeatedly as a small child by your parents of whoever, of course your going to believe it, and even when your grown up enough to think for yourself, it's kind of embedded in you.

My parents are atheist, and I am atheist.

People are products of there environment.''

I also agree with this. As one who has rejected the views of my parents and grandparents, who are all Roman Catholic, I have experieced how hard it is to look at all religions and viewpoints objectively and without a bias which I feel was somewhat brainwashed into me. (not that all RC's do this, this is just my opinion form my upbringing)

It is extremely hard to break those bonds and causes pain to others too.

I hope that if I have children I will help them focus on their spiritual development objectivly without the help of religion, so that they may form their own views even if I have found a religion.
 
agreed . . .

Religion is a form of brainwashing to me, which is why my parents steered clear of it and why I steered clear of it.

However, I suppose I have to wonder if my parents brainwashed me by encouraging atheism? I suppose it works both ways.:noidea:
 
sdraguer said:
You're in the position where you'll have to form your own opinion because truth works neither way.

Church also has a lot of positive sides to it, I noticed that even at my most Church-cynical times. They for example provide professional therapy and counceling for free, something the government wouldn't.

Brainwashing, yes. Those who believe in what they believe will always justify their means with the end, because they believe in in their own faith / lack of it so strongly.

Churches need members to stay alive, they've become almost sort of like extensions of the government. They will have to compromise, like any organisations for the sake of general view. Gay marriages in near future, for example.

That's why I wouldn't put my two cents in them. Churches - religions - work as organisations. Being spiritual allows you to have an open mind, all religions worship the same God after all.

Actually maybe wisdom and spiritualism go hand in hand. And maybe spiritualism is a little bit of everything, sciences, philosophy, arts - ways to seek for the meaning.

Can science explain why we are? I don't mean how we are or how we became to be...

Ooh, I don't know. It's all very exciting though.
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It is exciting, something so mystifying about it all.

I suppose I do need to form my own opinion, however I'm worried that I've been so brainwashed that my own opinion is a reflection of my parents. I mean I agree with them, I would call myself an atheist . . . but I don't how I would have felt had I had a religious upbringing, would I still be inclined to steer clear of religion?

It is true the church does have some redeeming qualities. It's the historical element that really bothers me. I'm really into history and basically throughout history the church was a way to have power over the masses. The church was corrupt, terribly so, they taxed people, controlled people and basically used the power that God was said to have to their own advantage. So yes, now the church may be good and honest, but they were born from a web of deceit and lies. Which is why I'm dubious as to whether any of it's true, taking into the consideration the fact that church (during the middle ages) changed beliefs to suit their own needs and enable them to employ their own laws so that it had some religious relevance. I know the church is different now, but it came from that, it developed from that.

Also the organization element, it's a company isn't it? They have to work as a business to an extent.

I suppose the definition of spiritualism is open to debate. I always considered it to basically go hand in hand with religion. But I'm starting to consider that it could be something completely separate . . . I hope it is.
 
Blind Bandit said:
There needs to be a clarification made here.

I'm sure some INFJ's are spiritual but not religious. These terms do not mean the same thing.

I'm very spiritual but not religious in any manner.

I'm an agnostic humanist.
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Being spiritual but not religious seems to be the most common thing I've heard here so far, maybe that's a tendency of the INFJ?
 
I think spirituality is unlimited and in constant expansion and flux. Religions seem to be certain paths toward a spirituality in life, though they are restricted to limited parameters.
I believe the problem lies in that some religions insist that their parameters are the only way to spirituality in a person's life. In an infinite universe, I would surmise that there would be infinite ways of living a spiritual life.
 
As an INFJ, it is no surprize that my spirituality is very important to me in many ways. I firmly believe that spiritual discovery is a personal experience. Everyone should discover spirituality on there own, in a personal way. That is not to say you shouldn't receive guidence from people or book sources, but use it to exrapolate ideas. Make spirituality your own, personal thing. It has worked for me so very well so far.
 
This makes me wonder whether I'm an INFJ . . .

I do wonder about all of these things and the destiny of our kind, whether these spiritual things and superstitious things do have any truth . . . but otherwise I'm a complete and utter sceptic! Could this mean I'm not quite INFJ
 
I think it depends on what your understanding is, Fantome. I think most if not all INFJs are also skeptics to some degree, but I think we also believe that more exists than what we see (Ni at work). So if "the truth is out there" and it's more than our senses, we tend to believe in spirituality, aliens, conspiracy theories, and the like...running it, of course, through our own personal filters.
 
[quote=Le Fant
 
arbygil said:
I think it depends on what your understanding is, Fantome. I think most if not all INFJs are also skeptics to some degree, but I think we also believe that more exists than what we see (Ni at work). So if "the truth is out there" and it's more than our senses, we tend to believe in spirituality, aliens, conspiracy theories, and the like...running it, of course, through our own personal filters.
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That does ring true to me . . . I have found that I'm always searching for the greater reason, and although I have dismissed the religious view of God, I still am open to the idea that there are things out there we don't understand- I don't think there's any form of a 'God', but something, although I am strong in my view that I don't think this thing has any effect on us, I don't think it can reward or punish the human race in any way; this view of a higher power I believe was merely invented by man.

But I am always considering these things, like you said, spirituality, aliens etc. . . even if I do dismiss them in the end.

I'm sorry if this post doesn't make any sense- I'm a bit of a scatter brain today.
 
Obstinate said:
I think I'm an exception to the rule; I've developed in spite of my background. :)

My whole family is pretty Christian, yet I'd consider myself agnostic. I believe spirituality has a great place in humanity, but the church brainwashes. I've realized that from an early age. The first time I questioned it was when I was at least 5. And since then it has been a pretty much weekly struggle to remain myself and not be brainwashed.
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problem for me is, I agree with my family- so how do I know if I've been brainwashed . . .???
 
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