[PAX] INFJ Ethics

[knight in battle]

rather than having a 'pinned down' set of rules we have a pinned down system to govern the differences of different group expectation. For example not wanting to take from people their dignity when confronted with high intellect (I hate people looking down on others) or success How this is executed is entirely individual based on the factors mentioned earlier. Another I see, is a pattern of the notion of universal harmony or sustained understanding, how these translate to set in stone ethics is fluid but the origin all the same. INFJ is a system based personality which is why we/they are harder to understand in terms of set codes because in order for systems to flourish, they need to evolve.

The spirit of the law.

 

[GracieRuth]

When I was a teen, I noticed I had a habit of morphing into the political beliefs of people I liked, and concluded that I need to be a little more *conscious* of my decisions and how I make them.

From the oldest time that I remember, my mom taught me to love my neighbor as myself. It was always clear to me that this was really the one rule, and everything that was wrong was wrong BECAUSE it violated this rule. My assumption was that my mother taught me this. However, recent conversations with her have led me to think that maybe it was just my own thinking and very little of it came from my ISTJ mom, who is less big on principles and more big on rules.

To cultivate my moral nature, I spend a lot of time thinking over hypotheticals, and reviewing things that have actually happened, questioning whether my response was REALLY loving, or a perversion of loving. As Hillel wrote, "Whatever is hateful to you, don't do to others. This is the WHOLE Torah, all the rest is commentary; NOW go study the commentary." It isn't enough to have a guiding principal if you don't practice putting it into effect in a variety of settings.

I used to adore a radio show called 'Ask the Rabbi'. The rabbi would describe a troublesome ethical dilemma, and ask people to call in what they would do. After about a half hour of hearing various ideas, the rabbi would say, "Now the Rabbi will tell you the RIGHT answer, and the Rabbi is always right!" (Tongue in cheek of course.) He would give his answer and EXPLAIN why it was superior. DAMN IT ALL, he WAS right! Every time! LOL He really challenged my ability to reason morally, and I hope some day I can thank him. (He is Rabbi Mentz of CHABAD in Bel Air.)

 

[894tt3h9]

My morals and ethics tend to be my own. I do what makes me feel good. I don't worry so much about other people. Though it just so happens I like to make other people feel good to.... so long as it doesn't take too much away from me. But generally morals and ethics for me are fluid, not black and white and are weighed different depending on who or what I am dealing with.

 

[Feelings]

In principle, all ethics ARE feelings based, on some level. That's what it breaks down to. Why is it wrong to kill people? To steal? To betray? To lie? To torture? Because there is widespread consensus that we don't like those sorts of thing. It's feelings based.

But what if I'm in a bad mood, and I want to behave like a total asshole? I feel like it. It makes me feel good. And when I so happen to be a good mood, I'm really nice, because I feel like it. Can this be considered "ethics"? I'm right to do whatever I do, because I feel like it? So, it doesn't matter what I do; everything that I do is, by definition, ethical and moral. I think for something to be classified as "ethics" or "morals", it has to be static.

For me personally, I have a static sense of ideals. They do change, but only gradually. My actual BEHAVIOR fluctuates. Sometimes I behave ethically, sometimes I do not. Sometimes I'm virtually incapable of behaving ethically. I can be TOTALLY emotionally wrecked, and as a result behave like a moody prick. That I'm incapable of behaving well doesn't change the fact that the behavior is unethical. I may do a lot of things that are unethical, for various reasons, but that doesn't change my assessment that it's unethical. I might download stuff on-line without paying for it, for example. I'll park at a shopping centre, and walk across the street, even though parking's only supposed to be for that shopping centre. If the cashier makes a mistake and doesn't scan a particular item, and I end up getting it for free, I won't necessarily make the correction.

So, my beliefs are rigid, even though my behaviors fluctuate a lot around them.

So my new theory is that most people, including INFJs, don't actually have a strong sense of ethics. That doesn't mean that they behave any worse than people who do. Someone may happen to behave very ethically, because of other factors, like wanting to have a positive self-image, wanting to cultivate certain kinds of relationships, wanting to share in nice warm feelings (aka empathy). But, I don't think the motivating force is to be in line with a static sense of ideals. I don't think they have a model in their minds of what's right and wrong, and compare whatever's happening against that model. I'm looking at this more as a manner of operating.

 

[Skarekrow]

Don't let your morals and ethics get in the way of doing the right thing....

 

[Elis]

I have a theory that INFJs have a strong pack mentality. They have a strong propensity to hold the same beliefs as those they feel close to. This is probably due to strong empathy, automatic tendencies to fit in and belong, and a feeling of oneness with their group. As far as ethics goes, there's no 'center'. They are chameleons that change color to be in harmony with their surroundings.

If that'd be true, then perhaps INFJ wouldn't be my closest match after all, I don't really see myself changing my beliefs/etc based on norms/groups at all, quite the opposite, unless someone can convince me otherwise with reason of course.

BTW, when people talk about INFJ and empathy, it always seams that empathy = sympathy, for some reason. (but maybe that is just me)

 

[Skarekrow]

If that'd be true, then perhaps INFJ wouldn't be my closest match after all, I don't really see myself changing my beliefs/etc based on norms/group, quite the opposite.
BTW, when people talk about INFJ and empathy, it always seams that empathy = sympathy, for some reason. (but maybe that is just me)

I don't agree with the 'ethic chameleon" thing... I have always stood my ground on my own personal ethics... even when it gets me into discussions/arguments with complete strangers....

 

[muir]

INFJ's are fiercely independant. They will do what they know is right not what the crowd is doing

They're not pack animals in the sense of following the group, they have a bit of the lone wolf streak in them

That's the reason why they're both loved and hated

 

[acd]

In principle, all ethics ARE feelings based, on some level. That's what it breaks down to. Why is it wrong to kill people? To steal? To betray? To lie? To torture? Because there is widespread consensus that we don't like those sorts of thing. It's feelings based.

But what if I'm in a bad mood, and I want to behave like a total asshole? I feel like it. It makes me feel good. And when I so happen to be a good mood, I'm really nice, because I feel like it. Can this be considered "ethics"? I'm right to do whatever I do, because I feel like it? So, it doesn't matter what I do; everything that I do is, by definition, ethical and moral. I think for something to be classified as "ethics" or "morals", it has to be static.

For me personally, I have a static sense of ideals. They do change, but only gradually. My actual BEHAVIOR fluctuates. Sometimes I behave ethically, sometimes I do not. Sometimes I'm virtually incapable of behaving ethically. I can be TOTALLY emotionally wrecked, and as a result behave like a moody prick. That I'm incapable of behaving well doesn't change the fact that the behavior is unethical. I may do a lot of things that are unethical, for various reasons, but that doesn't change my assessment that it's unethical. I might download stuff on-line without paying for it, for example. I'll park at a shopping centre, and walk across the street, even though parking's only supposed to be for that shopping centre. If the cashier makes a mistake and doesn't scan a particular item, and I end up getting it for free, I won't necessarily make the correction.

So, my beliefs are rigid, even though my behaviors fluctuate a lot around them.

So my new theory is that most people, including INFJs, don't actually have a strong sense of ethics. That doesn't mean that they behave any worse than people who do. Someone may happen to behave very ethically, because of other factors, like wanting to have a positive self-image, wanting to cultivate certain kinds of relationships, wanting to share in nice warm feelings (aka empathy). But, I don't think the motivating force is to be in line with a static sense of ideals. I don't think they have a model in their minds of what's right and wrong, and compare whatever's happening against that model. I'm looking at this more as a manner of operating.

Emotions aren't totally irrational. It's not just wrong to kill because it makes us feel bad, it makes us feel bad because we have evolved to bond with other human beings because our survival is largely dependent on living as a community. Emotions can be irrational and result in irrational behavior as a result of a mental or physiological dysfunction or illness.or crisis.

It takes you a lot of words to say very little. If your principles are rigid yet your behavior is inconsistent depending on your emotion at that moment, it is because you lack self control. Why you are unable to control yorself? Your lack of self control and emotional maturity is not a reflection on other peoples sense of ethics. It demonstrates that for whatever reason you behave like a child in crisis, perpetually tantruming through life.

 

[Feelings]

Emotions aren't totally irrational. It's not just wrong to kill because it makes us feel bad, it makes us feel bad because we have evolved to bond with other human beings because our survival is largely dependent on living as a community. Emotions can be irrational and result in irrational behavior as a result of a mental or physiological dysfunction or illness.or crisis.

They aren't totally irrational, but IMO they mostly are. There's a ton of ways that emotions work against our self-interests. TONS. Probably because we're still emotionally wired for caveman sort of life, as opposed to civilized society. I have heard that theory a lot.

It takes you a lot of words to say very little. If your principles are rigid yet your behavior is inconsistent depending on your emotion at that moment, it is because you lack self control. Why you are unable to control yorself? Your lack of self control and emotional maturity is not a reflection on other peoples sense of ethics. It demonstrates that for whatever reason you behave like a child in crisis, perpetually tantruming through life.

LOL. Logic fail acd, logic fail. Damn. Well yeah, obviously I lack self control. Pretty much everybody does, heh. You can't have perfect control over yourself, the brain doesn't work that way. Emotions are fucking chaotic. But this thread isn't about what you think about me personally.