[Film Club] INFJ Film Club - Week Cuatro - Charlie Chaplin's "The Kid" (1921)

SarahBS said:
Part II: BRING IN THE TALKIES - THE SOUND ERA (from late 1920s)


A: The Golden Age of Hollywood

Week 5: The American Gangster of the 30s
Director: Howard Hawks, or William Wellman?
Film: Scarface (1932), or The Public Enemy (1931)


Scarface :mwaa: I've been waiting to watch this for a long time ^_^

but guys can I share a thought with you?
Honestly I don't have the feeling of getting to know the history of cinema. It's just a little touch to whatever we can lay hands on...
Hmm, I think we could do better than this.

Thoughts?
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Let's watch it!
Writing the entire history of cinema and the historical context is a lot of work for this politically active ollege student. I'd love it if you'd do it, but I'm not up for the task right now.
 
Alright then, so Scarface it is! :)

Hmm...so how should we do this instead?
How would we choose the next assignments?
 
SarahBS said:
I coudln't t agree more!


Well I've come to realize that Chaplin's movies were extraordinary at his own time. I supposed he experience a huge amount suffering at the time. It's obvious from the way his stories go. I'm wondering if people understood what he was trying to say at time.

Just like City Lights , there were meticulous details. Like how caring he is.How he is inspired by the letter the child's mom left. Exactly when read , he feels he has to take care of the kid ^^ How generously he cut his own chair to make him a toilet.

How he fights for the kid. To bring him back. HOW REAL EVERYTHING IS!
The music when they were taking the child …

and Oh the dreamland ..Can he mean that he doesn’t have a good life even in his dreamland by the events we see? He feels insecure about his surroundings.

There's a question though: What does he mean by this?
View attachment 25473
He walked back to go from the other side! any ideas?

P.S: [MENTION=13909]Satori[/MENTION] I didn't actually get what your question is :">
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Chaplin's films are extraordinary in our time too! The unpublished preface to Chaplin's autobiography stipulated that his poverty and early life suffering taught him nothing other than distorted values. That being said, he carried a huge burden in that he was such an auterist.

As far as your questions regarding the events of Dreamland, Chaplin had this to say :

"A heaven satirizing the sloppiness of much contemporary altruism, with policemen enforcing brotherly love and second-hand dealers exchanging wings for kisses of the newly arrived angels"

Did I mention how much I love every time the Tramp goes into a dream state or imagines things? I can't get enough of them! My favorite visual of this particular dream scene is that even in "Dreamland", the patch on the Tramp's door is still in place.


Finally to address your question regarding the frame you snapped- I honestly believe it was nothing but a sight gag by Chaplin. Think about it- why would it matter which side of the post he walks on? It doesn't. Naturally the Tramp will want to comply with the policeman as much as possible, since he's a gentleman above all other things!

Three fun facts regarding the dream scene:

The girl who "vamped" the Tramp was only 12.

She went on to become Chaplin's second wife at 15.

The Tramp fell quite often from his suspended piano wire, cause him many pains. At one point during a take of him flying down main street, the wire snapped.


Another fun fact regarding the production of The Kid

This film was edited in a hotel room illegally. Chaplin had a disagreement with First National over the production of the film, as they wanted to cut it into three two-reel comedies to avoid paying Chaplin extra money.

Chaplin fled with all the reels of The Kid to Utah, and stored them in a hotel bedroom where they went through over 2,000 takes of film, occasionally losing parts and spending hours looking for them under the bed, etc., before the film was finished. He had pieces of the film strewn all over every piece of furniture he could find- an entire hotel room's worth. It was illegal to keep flammable materials in a hotel room, and as we all know, nitrate films are HIGHLY flammable.

Sarah, if you are interested in watching Chaplin's films on the side away from the regular movie thread, I would be ecstatic to help you along in your quest to watch as many as you can. PM me if you have any questions or if you are interested. I have a tremendous passion for Chaplin's works, and I love to share it with others. As others in this thread have stated, if he had not had such a profound effect on others, we would not be sitting here discussing watching his entire filmography over 100 years after it began!
 
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somerandomISTJguy said:
Chaplin's films are extraordinary in our time too! The unpublished preface to Chaplin's autobiography stipulated that his poverty and early life suffering taught him nothing other than distorted values. That being said, he carried a huge burden in that he was such an auterist.

As far as your questions regarding the events of Dreamland, Chaplin had this to say :

"A heaven satirizing the sloppiness of much contemporary altruism, with policemen enforcing brotherly love and second-hand dealers exchanging wings for kisses of the newly arrived angels"

Did I mention how much I love every time the Tramp goes into a dream state or imagines things? I can't get enough of them! My favorite visual of this particular dream scene is that even in "Dreamland", the patch on the Tramp's door is still in place.


Finally to address your question regarding the frame you snapped- I honestly believe it was nothing but a sight gag by Chaplin. Think about it- why would it matter which side of the post he walks on? It doesn't. Naturally the Tramp will want to comply with the policeman as much as possible, since he's a gentleman above all other things!

Three fun facts regarding the dream scene:

The girl who "vamped" the Tramp was only 12.

She went on to become Chaplin's second wife at 15.

The Tramp fell quite often from his suspended piano wire, cause him many pains. At one point during a take of him flying down main street, the wire snapped.


Another fun fact regarding the production of The Kid

This film was edited in a hotel room illegally. Chaplin had a disagreement with First National over the production of the film, as they wanted to cut it into three two-reel comedies to avoid paying Chaplin extra money.

Chaplin fled with all the reels of The Kid to Utah, and stored them in a hotel bedroom where they went through over 2,000 takes of film, occasionally losing parts and spending hours looking for them under the bed, etc., before the film was finished. He had pieces of the film strewn all over every piece of furniture he could find- an entire hotel room's worth. It was illegal to keep flammable materials in a hotel room, and as we all know, nitrate films are HIGHLY flammable.

Sarah, if you are interested in watching Chaplin's films on the side away from the regular movie thread, I would be ecstatic to help you along in your quest to watch as many as you can. PM me if you have any questions or if you are interested. I have a tremendous passion for Chaplin's works, and I love to share it with others. As others in this thread have stated, if he had not had such a profound effect on others, we would not be sitting here discussing watching his entire filmography over 100 years after it began!
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I haven't read an autobiography on Charlie but you make me think of it. Which one would you recommend?
From what you know about his mother, do you think it influenced the female character in City Lights?
 
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ezra said:
Let's watch it!
Writing the entire history of cinema and the historical context is a lot of work for this politically active ollege student. I'd love it if you'd do it, but I'm not up for the task right now.
Click to expand...
Me neither. I just felt a need to know more and I thought we could be better.I don't think what we're doing is enough :P It's not for me ^_^
Satori said:
Alright then, so Scarface it is! :)

Hmm...so how should we do this instead?
How would we choose the next assignments?
Click to expand...
I guess we need to be more creative. I'll think about it. ^^
 
camomile said:
I haven't read an autobiography on Charlie but you make me think of it. Which one would you recommend?
From what you know about his mother, do you think it influenced the female character in City Lights?
Click to expand...


The most recent biographical material, if you will call it that, that I have picked up on Chaplin is Taschen's The Chaplin Archives. It is an absolute beast of a book, weighing in at over 14 pounds. It mostly deals with the production of his material, with a dusting of his personal life and affairs [pun intended] throw into the mix.

I have only read one other biography on Chaplin, but it was some time ago, and as such, I do not remember the title. I have also read Charlie's autobiography, which I would highly recommend. My reading of his autobiography has also been some time ago, though. As soon as I am done with Mark Twain's three volume autobiography, I fully intend to pick up Chaplin's autobiography and read through it again.

You can grab the ISBNs for the books I mentioned here:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/3836538431/?tag=infjs-20

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B009GCFBZ2/?tag=infjs-20

Finally to answer your last question, yes I do see some parallels between Charlie's mother (and father) in the movie. Charlie's mother suffered from syphilis. Chaplin Sr. was an alcoholic, like the millionaire. I'd really have to study hard to give you a more concrete opinion on the subject, though. If I had to base it off of a hunch, I would say "probably", since his mother died not very long before the production of City Lights began. Her death was undoubtedly on Charlie's mind at the time, even though he had roughly worked out the script months before her death.

Charlie was a private person though, and much the same way he hid the inner workings of his productions, I feel he also hid the inner workings of Charlie from view as well:

"In this record [his autobiography] I shall tell only what I want to tell, for there is a line of demarcation between oneself and the public. There are some things which if divulged to the public, I would have nothing left to hold body and soul together, and my personality would disappear like the waters of the rivers that flow into the sea."

I think we need to keep this in mind when basing anything off of a "hunch".

You know what they say, one hunch over the line is a hunch too far. So let's not beat around the hunch and put all of our hunches in one basket on the subject. As the above hunch is only my personal opinion, take it with a grain of hunch.

[edit]^^I apologize for the above silliness. I'm not sure where it came from.
 
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somerandomISTJguy said:
The most recent biographical material, if you will call it that, that I have picked up on Chaplin is Taschen's The Chaplin Archives. It is an absolute beast of a book, weighing in at over 14 pounds. It mostly deals with the production of his material, with a dusting of his personal life and affairs [pun intended] throw into the mix.

I have only read one other biography on Chaplin, but it was some time ago, and as such, I do not remember the title. I have also read Charlie's autobiography, which I would highly recommend. My reading of his autobiography has also been some time ago, though. As soon as I am done with Mark Twain's three volume autobiography, I fully intend to pick up Chaplin's autobiography and read through it again.

You can grab the ISBNs for the books I mentioned here:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/3836538431/?tag=infjs-20

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B009GCFBZ2/?tag=infjs-20

Finally to answer your last question, yes I do see some parallels between Charlie's mother (and father) in the movie. Charlie's mother suffered from syphilis. Chaplin Sr. was an alcoholic, like the millionaire. I'd really have to study hard to give you a more concrete opinion on the subject, though. If I had to base it off of a hunch, I would say "probably", since his mother died not very long before the production of City Lights began. Her death was undoubtedly on Charlie's mind at the time, even though he had roughly worked out the script months before her death.

Charlie was a private person though, and much the same way he hid the inner workings of his productions, I feel he also hid the inner workings of Charlie from view as well:

"In this record [his autobiography] I shall tell only what I want to tell, for there is a line of demarcation between oneself and the public. There are some things which if divulged to the public, I would have nothing left to hold body and soul together, and my personality would disappear like the waters of the rivers that flow into the sea."

I think we need to keep this in mind when basing anything off of a "hunch".

You know what they say, one hunch over the line is a hunch too far. So let's not beat around the hunch and put all of our hunches in one basket on the subject. As the above hunch is only my personal opinion, take it with a grain of hunch.

[edit]^^I apologize for the above silliness. I'm not sure where it came from.
Click to expand...
I know that his mother was institutionalised, he had to commit her himself. That's got to be a hard thing to go through, for her too. She was experiencing Psychosis.
She acted erratic, he couldn't understand it and once on stage her voice cracked and he had to take over-which is when he started on the performance circuit. This idea of rescuing women is in his movies.
 
camomile said:
I know that his mother was institutionalised, he had to commit her himself. That's got to be a hard thing to go through, for her too. She was experiencing Psychosis.
She acted erratic, he couldn't understand it and once on stage her voice cracked and he had to take over-which is when he started on the performance circuit. This idea of rescuing women is in his movies.
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Yeah, I believe it was the syphilis that was giving her the psychosis issues. I'm not a doctor, though.

There is also the element of what may have been subconscious influences on his film story lines, too.

I will agree that the idea of rescuing women is an element in several of his movies, but by varying degrees. Off the top of my head I can give you the following observations:

City Lights- This one is pretty cut and dry. We all know what happens here.

Modern Times- I see this as more of a mutualistic relationship between the two main protagonists rather than a "boy rescues girl" scenario.

The Circus- The Tramp "rescues" Merna from her abusive father, only at the end of the film he ultimately rejects her as being someone he can take care of, and marries her off the the tightrope walker.

The Immigrant- This one starts off with the Tramp saving the girl and her mother from poverty by protecting them from a thief. The Tramp had a love interest in the girl, but they both seemed to be in the same dire set of circumstances (both immigrants), so I'm not sure this qualifies as being rescued.

Sunnyside- The Tramp is worse off than the woman he is courting in this film.

The Gold Rush- The Tramp courts a woman better off than he is in this film as well, only to have the tables turned at the end of the film, when he becomes a millionaire, and plucks her out of poverty.

The Count- The Tramp attempts to court a rich woman while impersonating a count. (This one is a gem of a film, although the plot isn't very smooth, the gags are top notch).

Shoulder Arms- The Tramp runs into a french girl whom he rescues from some german soldiers. I don't remember how this one ends.

A Dog's Life- The Tramp rescues a woman from a dance hall for a happy ending.

The Vagabond- Charlie rescues a woman from a band of gypsies, and ends up being rescued by her when she is discovered to be a rich couple's lost daughter.

The Tramp- The Tramp has a love interest of the farmer's daughter in this one, but he ends up leaving after her fiance arrives.

The Face on the Bar Room Floor- This one is based off of the poem of the same name, so it doesn't really apply.



There are many more that I'm sure I'm missing. I think we should also take into account that Chaplin had to make films that made money, and at the time I'm sure boy meets girl in any varying degree always sold well. In addition, we should also take into consideration the evolution of the Tramp character. The Tramp of 1914 was not the same Tramp that we see in City Lights. Watching the earlier films and then moving into the later films you can sort of see the Tramp mature like a fine wine. :)
 
somerandomISTJguy said:
Yeah, I believe it was the syphilis that was giving her the psychosis issues. I'm not a doctor, though.

There is also the element of what may have been subconscious influences on his film story lines, too.

I will agree that the idea of rescuing women is an element in several of his movies, but by varying degrees. Off the top of my head I can give you the following observations:

City Lights- This one is pretty cut and dry. We all know what happens here.

Modern Times- I see this as more of a mutualistic relationship between the two main protagonists rather than a "boy rescues girl" scenario.

The Circus- The Tramp "rescues" Merna from her abusive father, only at the end of the film he ultimately rejects her as being someone he can take care of, and marries her off the the tightrope walker.

The Immigrant- This one starts off with the Tramp saving the girl and her mother from poverty by protecting them from a thief. The Tramp had a love interest in the girl, but they both seemed to be in the same dire set of circumstances (both immigrants), so I'm not sure this qualifies as being rescued.

Sunnyside- The Tramp is worse off than the woman he is courting in this film.

The Gold Rush- The Tramp courts a woman better off than he is in this film as well, only to have the tables turned at the end of the film, when he becomes a millionaire, and plucks her out of poverty.

The Count- The Tramp attempts to court a rich woman while impersonating a count. (This one is a gem of a film, although the plot isn't very smooth, the gags are top notch).

Shoulder Arms- The Tramp runs into a french girl whom he rescues from some german soldiers. I don't remember how this one ends.

A Dog's Life- The Tramp rescues a woman from a dance hall for a happy ending.

The Vagabond- Charlie rescues a woman from a band of gypsies, and ends up being rescued by her when she is discovered to be a rich couple's lost daughter.

The Tramp- The Tramp has a love interest of the farmer's daughter in this one, but he ends up leaving after her fiance arrives.

The Face on the Bar Room Floor- This one is based off of the poem of the same name, so it doesn't really apply.



There are many more that I'm sure I'm missing. I think we should also take into account that Chaplin had to make films that made money, and at the time I'm sure boy meets girl in any varying degree always sold well. In addition, we should also take into consideration the evolution of the Tramp character. The Tramp of 1914 was not the same Tramp that we see in City Lights. Watching the earlier films and then moving into the later films you can sort of see the Tramp mature like a fine wine. :)
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Flip. I've got some catching up to do. It's really rare to come across someone with an interest in Chaplin.
 
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