INFJ intelligence

ThisIsWhoIAm said:
I don't think i am better. I know i'm different. I stopped reading here. It seems like you have some issues with your self and you choose to throw them at me instead of settling thing on your own.
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Dude you just sound like a INFJ supremacist jerk. Maybe you are unable to see it, but from a lot of posts you've made around the forum so far, you sound like you're full of yourself. Calling me a hater and wondering why I'm here while you reside in your noob status. Get real.
 
ThisIsWhoIAm said:
The reason it's hard for me to explain myself in many situations, is that i see something crystal clear, while others are completely blind to what i see - but for them to understand it, and for me to explain it - i have to disconnect from my feelings and intuition, and connect to my hard logic, and then back and forth in order to put it all into a formula that thinking people will understand. This is very exhausting to do, especially in the middle of a conversation. I usually do these connections when i'm alone. My brain goes to travels inside and all sorts of awesome connections between my left brain and right brain are made. But doing this in the middle of an argument for example, is just extremely tedious and annoying. Especially when people condescend, thinking they are superior because you don't have the "scientific evidence" they are looking for, while you are understanding the situation so much better than them. It's quite ridiculous sometimes.
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I actually sort of agree with you on this but I'm going to have to concur with [MENTION=3998]niffer[/MENTION] because honestly, you really sound like a prick right now. Each type has their advantages and disadvantages it's pretty absurd to think that one is better than the other. One type's disadvantage could be another's advantage and lol you're displaying one of the biggest INFJ pitfalls right now, being hard-headed and assuming that your perspective is the only correct one.
 
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[MENTION=6650]SealHammer[/MENTION] :
I'm sorry for the harsh reply i posted earlier, i've been having quite a crisis this week and it exploded yesterday, i was half passing out from pain when i posted... I do not want to hurt anyone here and i ask your forgiveness, you do not deserve this kind of reply over merely your own opinion, we are all entitled to have our own opinion. I promise i will read it later when i will feel better and give a much better reply. This was a really really hard week and i'm sorry it came out on you.
 
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[MENTION=6650]SealHammer[/MENTION] :

Being able to have a deep internal understanding of an idea is meaningless if you cannot share and develop that idea with others, which should be your endgoal. After all, isn't the idea in itself worthless if it cannot be shared? By simply claiming that you have too deep of an understanding for something to explain it, you are placing limitations on yourself and your abilities.
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I agree wholeheartedly with this. When i said i have trouble explaining myself and that it's not worth my time, i meant it in small talk when i throw in an opinion which is very thoroughly thought of.

Oh, and there's nothing to suggest that any personality type is inherently more intelligent than another type. There's no catch-all metric for intelligence and us INFJs being rare does not mean that we are necessarily smarter than anyone else.
We have a unique predisposition to having a well-developed awareness of the world, ourselves, and the people around us, but that predisposition doesn't mean much if we don't grab it by the horns and take full advantage of it.
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This is very true as well. I'm sorry i was a jerk earlier, i was in great physical pain and exhaustion. I've been having a hard time lately. I was like in half consciousness and everything was so vague i didn't realize i shouldn't post.
 
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[MENTION=3998]niffer[/MENTION] : I'm sorry you feel this way. The hater picture was supposed to make you laugh, didn't mean harm. You seem to be having problems with people with high self esteem though. I will not take it personally. I thought i can be who i am in this forum without people being judgemental or jealous or whatever. The truth is, i found out i am an INFJ (and about jung in general) just a week ago. I don't feel like i'm superior because of this. The truth is i am a genius in a lot of areas. I don't say this from my ego. That's the way it is, and i just want to share who i am here. If i sound patronizing then you got me the wrong way, i'm here to help people. And to receive help of course. This forum is very supportive (usually). What i said to SealHammer was indeed mean and stupid. I was in a lot of pain and didn't realize i should not post. I wrote a bit more about this in the post above if you want to read.

I decided i will not hold back on who i am here because i feel like i have a lot of good advice to offer to people who are like me in some ways. Something i did not have my entire life and it's something i really needed.
If it annoys you or pains you to see that i have a high self esteem then we will just have to agree to disagree, and i'm sorry if i hurt you.

Thanks for reading. :)
 
ThisIsWhoIAm said:
Sometimes explaining how i know something would require half an hour even if i was fully connected to my thinking side (which is quite strong by the way). I understand things very deeply sometimes that in order to explain them i have to explain certain unconventional 'networks' of knowledge inside my head... In short... If you don't like talking to INFJs... :)
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I feel you.
 
*derisive laugh*

You leave the thinking to us NTs little missy. Look, there's a pretty flower, why don't you play with it for a while.
 
point uno... we need to be grounded from our conceit.

and dos: INTJs are fucking brilliant in every sense of the word!
 
Personally, I don't hold anything against people who think I'm wrong; it's that they think I'm wrong without giving me the chance to explain myself. It's condescending, and it's not even that I'm right, it's that they're pissants who are undeserving of my respect. They're moronic, not because of the answer they come to, but how they treat new information.

In short, anyone who thinks themself an intellectual should be willing to listen intelligently, and if you're not an intellectual, do not pretend to be one.
 
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Everyone has different strengths and also things that they're not so good at

generalisations could probably be made along MBTI lines, but i think the key thing is that everyone has something to bring to the mix

One thing i've noticed is some types not recognising the strengths of other types or not seeing their value to society. When one type is derided it is more likely that they will then return that lack of respect onto the person who is disrespecting them

I think our society is very different to society a hundred years ago and different again from one thousand years ago. What this means is that our society does get shaped by people

For example when society was ruled by just one king or queen they would make changes that might reflect them and their personality. When a country was colonised the invaders would impose their way of doing things on the inhabitants.

so therefore whichever group holds the most sway in society will probably get to shape it a lot

So the question then becomes 'who has the most power in our current society' and 'how are they trying to shape it'; 'what sort of values, outlooks and perspectives are they trying to push onto society'

At the moment we live in a profit orientated society which puts profit before people; so as a generalisation perhaps an argument could be made that types such as INFJ's who think about things in human terms are going to be less valued by the current group in power who's values are about putting profit before people than other types that will be more pre-occupied with pursuing profit without thinking so much in terms of what harm that might have on people or the environment in general

In an ideal situation all types would balance each other out if they had equal weight in society. But if some types are downtrodden and others elevated then i think there would be big problems resulting from that
 
I've never really considered myself intelligent. If my life depended on me finishing a sudoku- I'd die. I'm slow, verbally awkward and my short term memory is pitiful. Despite this I've fooled quite a lot of people into thinking I'm intelligent. It isn't like I've gone out of my way to be hailed a smarty pants but I can hold a debate and mirror while I'm doing it, so even though I may have no understanding of what is being debated in the first place, I'll end up looking like quite the scholar at the end of it.

:md:

Can intelligence not be mistaken for others things? Like an interest in the correct things, a bit of memory, and quite possibly the ability to just come across as smart and not actually be it? I wonder how often what is considered intelligence is just really clever parroting. Not to mention intelligence is often wrapped up with knowledge, which really complicates things when it comes to folks who are naturally wise but not considered academic.
 
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I do think about intellect a lot and while I don't feel free to discuss it and sound like an arrogant meanhead with people I know IRL, it can't hurt to vent and ask online with those of you who are also considering these same things that are on my mind.

What I've found is that there are types- INTP and ENTP to name a few- that seem to believe in general that the memorization of facts and rules of debate and whatnot is what makes a person intelligent. I can't disagree more. While I personally have a relatively large store of trivia and "did you know's," I think real intelligence goes so much deeper.

It goes much deeper than test scores and reading levels can reflect, and so often I find myself mentally humbled by my friends who couldn't begin to compete with me in school but easily find solutions in the real world while I look on in horror at the realization that I can be a real idiot.

I also need to ask this question- other INFJs, did you correct your teachers and did they like you so much that they didn't even mind? Did you tutor the kids grades above you? Did you finish your tests in half the time it took everyone else? Please don't take this as me bragging. I can't talk to people I know about these things because I've found that those who never have to study or try often receive the brunt of the frustration of those who work and struggle but still fail.

So I wonder if other INFJs were alienated as kids
because of how effortless and natural school was for them. It seems like I had better friendships with my teachers than with the students from 3rd grade through high school. Sometimes my teachers would accidentally abandon their lesson plans because my questions would spark deep discussions (still on the right topic). Other times I felt my teachers were pitting my classmates against me by telling them that they used my tests as the key for grading, by instructing the class to split into two teams for a game: me vs. everyone else, by bringing me gifts and allowing me to break rules, etc.

Someone tell me about your experience as an INFJ in school- were you the top of your class?
 
Tatum said:
I do think about intellect a lot and while I don't feel free to discuss it and sound like an arrogant meanhead with people I know IRL, it can't hurt to vent and ask online with those of you who are also considering these same things that are on my mind.

What I've found is that there are types- INTP and ENTP to name a few- that seem to believe in general that the memorization of facts and rules of debate and whatnot is what makes a person intelligent. I can't disagree more. While I personally have a relatively large store of trivia and "did you know's," I think real intelligence goes so much deeper.

It goes much deeper than test scores and reading levels can reflect, and so often I find myself mentally humbled by my friends who couldn't begin to compete with me in school but easily find solutions in the real world while I look on in horror at the realization that I can be a real idiot.

I also need to ask this question- other INFJs, did you correct your teachers and did they like you so much that they didn't even mind? Did you tutor the kids grades above you? Did you finish your tests in half the time it took everyone else? Please don't take this as me bragging. I can't talk to people I know about these things because I've found that those who never have to study or try often receive the brunt of the frustration of those who work and struggle but still fail.

So I wonder if other INFJs were alienated as kids
because of how effortless and natural school was for them. It seems like I had better friendships with my teachers than with the students from 3rd grade through high school. Sometimes my teachers would accidentally abandon their lesson plans because my questions would spark deep discussions (still on the right topic). Other times I felt my teachers were pitting my classmates against me by telling them that they used my tests as the key for grading, by instructing the class to split into two teams for a game: me vs. everyone else, by bringing me gifts and allowing me to break rules, etc.

Someone tell me about your experience as an INFJ in school- were you the top of your class?
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I was, but only for one semester. And to be honest, the bar was not set particularly high either. I was bored a lot, teased a lot (in a bad way, it's more like a soft form of bullying) and my parent's aren't what you'd call intellectual, or stimulating, so my performance was only what I'd call adequate in a selective field of subjects - I only learnt (and remembered) what I considered interesting.

I was almost thoroughly disconnected for most of my life, concerned more with fiction than the reality of my life. I actually wasn't taught how to live life the way I need to until a few months ago. And this is the ultimate mental stimulation, if you ask me.

Just out of curiosity - were you bullied at school or encouraged? How did your life look like outside of school?
 
Tatum said:
What I've found is that there are types- INTP and ENTP to name a few- that seem to believe in general that the memorization of facts and rules of debate and whatnot is what makes a person intelligent. I can't disagree more. While I personally have a relatively large store of trivia and "did you know's," I think real intelligence goes so much deeper.
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Then they should memorise this, too: Plato, the most influential of all philosophers, was an INFJ ;)

Maybe they consider it the yardstick for intelligence because it's what they're good at, though I don't think all INTPs/ENTPs are like that. I feel like I have a good intuitive grasp of what makes the INFJ intelligence really special. But like any good Ni-dom, I can't quite explain it in the words of ordinary language.
 
I had an interesting time of it in school. I never studied all that intensely except when I had to memorize all the states and capitals in elementary school (aced it). I was always in accelerated programs and in the 99th percentile of whatever or magnitudes higher in various district tests. Pretty terrible at math but I had bad teachers for several years in a row. I was also in advanced math and finally had a good math teacher again in college and aced the one course I needed, though I did get a B one of those terms.

But, I was never top of my class really. Almost always number 2. There was always some super genius edging me out. I was never mad about it, always just more surprised by my own standing so near the top. I think it's really a beautiful analogy for who I am as a person. I've never aspired to be number one, I'd rather help that person out. Those people always seemed to have terrible lives to me as well. Coming from abusive homes or just tending toward unhealthy self flagellation.

The times I failed were just the times I didn't show up. Metaphorically and/or physically. I think this is true for a lot of people. Often times just having your head in the game is the hardest part. Learning was easy. It was difficult for me because I fucking hate the educational establishment. Genuinely.

I should note that GPA wise I ended up in the middle because my final year of high school I had to miss a ton due to health issues. The same happened to me in college. Prior to those incidents though, I sat on a pretty solid 3.7ish GPA so again, not at the very top by any means but I also never really applied myself due to boredom. One of my teachers told me after I failed a test one time (because the test didn't matter ultimately) "you reap what you sew" and he just sort of laughed disappointingly at me. I've never forgotten that moment either because It's like... I could probably be a lot greater but I just don't give a shit for a lot of different reasons. Life is more than school. I've almost died many times. Life is precious.
 
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