INFJs & Ni: problem solving

[Honey]

In my introduction thread I mentioned I'm married to a INFJ, and there are some things about her that I struggle.

For example, one is how my SO doesn't seem to want to find solutions, but would rather find new possibilities and problems. I believe this is due to the Ni dominant, but it may be a personality issue and/or a male-female difference.

For example, there will be something troubling her, say she wants meaningful work, a better wardrobe, or recently we've had some struggles around housing issues. I'll start by trying to find a solution. Actually I've learned better and I'll start by discussing it with her! But at some point I will steer it towards "OK, how can we do something about it?" But as I'm trying to steer things toward a conclusion, she'll keep throwing up new possibilities. These will be other problems, things that are bothering her, etc.

For example take wardrobe. She'll complain she doesn't have any clothes. I'll tell her to...

Architect, you must be frustrated. I remember reading something else you wrote about your wife elsewhere and she struck me as being very strongly INFJ. Anyway, when I vent, my primary reason for venting is actually to find a solution primarily and secondarily, to feel that my problem/position is understood. Ultimately, I am a J type and I want closure, that is, I want a solution above all else. Someone who just passively sits and listens to my problems without making any concrete suggestions eventually annoys the hell out of me. I had the problem you described with a previous partner (ISFJ) who would quite often complain that I am doing what you think your wife is doing. The thing is though that while I did want a solution, none of the solutions he suggested ever seemed adequate enough. I could always spot a ton of flaws in anything he suggested and he became impatient and hurt with my less than enthusiastic yeah but...responses to him. I tend to know "intuitively" when something is workable for me and hardly anything he ever suggested felt right for me so he came to the conclusion that I must not want to solve the problem.

I actually become very enthusiastic and focused when I hear solutions that I think will work and I then do not keep going around in circles, I go into action (my little thread on money management elsewhere got suggestions that excited me to a frenzy almost). I did not always want to come out and just say that what he is saying just does not seem right for me and that I felt a better solution existed because I often felt like I was invalidating him when I did this not least because I frequently did it anyway.

I would probably need to think a little bit more about how to overcome this issue that is facing you but as always, there is a need to become more firm and very specific when dealing with INFJs [women]who tend to be a bit too focused on the vague and global sometimes. However, find out first what her grand global vision for the situation that is facing you/her is then direct her mind to specifics. If she thinks she cannot find the right type of clothes shop, find out very specifically what sort of clothes she is looking for and where might the type of store be found that sells that type of thing if there isn't one any nearby. If you have time, find a couple of stores that fits the bill. Make a convenient date together where she will go clothes shopping and ensure that she sticks to this date even if it rains, be firm.

So basically ask about and pay very strong attention to the goal and ideal that she has in mind then work on very specific, small, structured ways that those goals can be achieved if possible. I think INFJs benefit greatly from the concrete, firm and specific or maybe it is just me. Work on understanding what it is she wants and why without assuming anything. Work together on win/win solutions and if you become stuck, express how you feel about that and stress that you would like to work with her to find a mutually satisfactory solution and work at it in a disciplined way together.

This process might require a ton of patience from you but I see possibilities for growth, greater understanding and relationship strengthening here. I will think about your problem a little more though because to be honest, I am not really very satisfied with my own suggestions here, lol not at the irony.

 

[Sriracha]

Is this a INFJ trait? Female trait? Personal trait?
Good question. Whining is a personal trait, not related to MBTI or gender. We whine because we feel we are not being heard or understood.

How should I respond? Just listen and nod my head ("yes dear …"), try to help her (how do I keep from getting angry?) or ignore?
Listen. Ask questions. Don't offer a solution to her. Ask her: "Is there anything I can do to help?" Her answer to that last question will give you the key of what is really going on in her head. My guess is she might feel you are not in a financial position for her to purchase new clothes. You know that a woman's body changes greatly over time ... from losing metabolism/gaining weight, having kids, widening hips to possibly getting a belly during menopause. I will be the first to tell you that finding clothes that fit STINKS! However, once you find what works ... the elation!!! You don't have to spend a lot of money to buy, but you have to spend a lot of tedious shopping time. Honestly, I loathe shopping ... and the crowd that go along with it on the weekends.

How can I help her break this habit? Should I?
IDK. If you silence her, she will slowly shut you out completely. Perhaps she feels most intimate with you while she is venting? If I'm right, then during your most intimate moments, try to steer the conversation away from her venting/negativity to something positive. Make a routine of this. Reflect on the good times in your marriage, the funny times when raising your kids, what attracted you to her from the start and what keeps you attracted to her.


I can't relate to the whiny woman. I have had to learn to ask, my husband has had to learn to offer and we both have had to compromise on when something gets done. I'm a do'er. I don't ask for help often, so when I do my husband is quick to respond. If I tell him I would like to buy new clothes, he will tell me how much I can spend (b/c he manages the finances.)

If it is seriously the clothes she is complaining about, create a thread on here asking for advice. Tell us her body type and we can give you hints on where/what labels to look for. Then plan a day to take her to a mall to purchase some things. If she finds only a few items that fit ... YAY! She can order more of it online!

 

[Solongo]

I always assume if people don't want advice or solutions then they want their problem. I don't think it is an INFJ thing. Its just a general human behavior. There is something holding here back within herself and she needs to find it and unblock it. The possibilities she keeps bringing up is just a coverup or surface behaviors for a more deeper issue she needs to deal with. Its definitely not a personality trait. You can't help break it for her. You can "influence" her to do more indepth self analysis of herself and if she is a true INFJ she should have no problem doing so. All you can do is support her and be open without offering any solutions.

 

[Trifoilum]

The -topic- may have been a culturally-induced trait; thinking about cooking, housework, etc... but the reasoning is completely INFJ, the way I see it. (Of course, I'm projecting some parts of me too..)
She seeks completion. She seeks full understanding of what she deemed as a problem. Connections and patterns, implications and insinuations. Possibilities is not on the realm of physical possibilities; but mental possibilities (less 'what would happen' than 'what would it be/feel if this happened')

Not that it's always good (there is a line when INFJs / at least me starts to: a) go nowhere, b) start seeing things that aren't there, or c) starts to broke down over the 'impossibility' of the problem that looked big and huge and powerful, while in fact, it is chained.)

In fact the possibilities when that is unbridled is either true enlightenment or complete entanglement.

This is related to Se, but not completely. Mastery of Se will only drove them to -do- something, but it may not stop her from thinking. In fact it may overwhelm her with sensory inputs and multiple changes.

 

[BMatt]

Hi, y'all . . I lurk here frequently but rarely post, but it seems I actually have something useful to contribute to this topic.

Personally, I feel this is a difference between Ni-Fe and Ti-Ne and how they clash.

Ti judging function sees a problem in something, then turns to Ne (and Si) to come up with ideas to be compared back to the Ti logic
Ni perceiving function has a sense that something is amiss, then turns to Fe (and Ti) to find problems that need to be accounted for within the Ni grand plan


It's the reason why everyone thinks I'm so negative because I'm always pointing out problems, AND why everyone view's INFJs as far more "judging" than we actually are. We're extraverting stupid complaints about stuff that we don't actually care about. . . the stuff I DO care about is usually kept within the private Ni world.

Alternately, it's why I tend to find INxP types to be far stupider than they actually are because of their tendency to vomit out endless stupid ideas, when in reality the ones that they actually care about are being filtered into the Ti structure.





That all might sound rather crazy, but I can give a half decent example:

I was trying to sort through everything and give stuff away that I didn't want to haul with me in my recent move. I talked to my mom at one point and she started trying to tell me some new smoothie recipe she had, and how I should try it. I told her that it sounded good, but I didn't have a blender anymore. Sure enough, a week later a new blender arrived in the mail. She thought she was doing something nice for me, when in reality I had finally given away my last blender, and she made another one appear in my apartment for me to deal with.

It wasn't that I hated blenders, it was just one more thing that had already been dealt with, that I had to deal with again before a looming stressful move.







B

 

[SKINFJ]

Hi,

Don't know if this has been said here already, but to answer the original question - we , INFJs doing this questioning of the solutions/looking for problems act not because we are trying to look for problems or cant see a solution.

What we are looking for is a reassurance from the other person that we are loved, which means we are still attractive to the partner even with bad clothing / not ideal figure, that they will love us and wont leave us/find us weird even if we will ask a lot of annoying questions.

Once you reassure them, than they are ok again and will find a solution to the problem very easily without anybodies support.

 

[eta]

In my introduction thread I mentioned I'm married to a INFJ, and there are some things about her that I struggle.

For example, one is how my SO doesn't seem to want to find solutions, but would rather find new possibilities and problems. I believe this is due to the Ni dominant, but it may be a personality issue and/or a male-female difference.

For example, there will be something troubling her, say she wants meaningful work, a better wardrobe, or recently we've had some struggles around housing issues. I'll start by trying to find a solution. Actually I've learned better and I'll start by discussing it with her! But at some point I will steer it towards "OK, how can we do something about it?" But as I'm trying to steer things toward a conclusion, she'll keep throwing up new possibilities. These will be other problems, things that are bothering her, etc.

For example take wardrobe. She'll complain she doesn't have any clothes. I'll tell her to buy some new clothes. She'll say there isn't any time for that. I'll say take the time, I'll watch the kids. She'll say there are no stores locally that have anything she wants. And then it goes on, and on. Eventually I'll get frustrated and angry, because there's no end to it. Does she really want to solve the problem? Or just tear my ear off complaining about it?

So I'm curious on your thoughts about this

• Is this a INFJ trait? Female trait? Personal trait?
• How should I respond? Just listen and nod my head ("yes dear …"), try to help her (how do I keep from getting angry?) or ignore?
• How can I help her break this habit? Should I?

Thanks!

I know the question is really old, but I am giving my two cents any way. I am an infj. I don't have a black belt in mbti and I don't think I know any other infj. If I have a situation at hand that needs solving, there are several reasons why I might ponder about possibilities and fight suggestions instead of actually finding a solution. This will be long, so you might skip to the end where I summarize my opinion

First (not your wife's case) is that I know the solution but don't want to act up. It is very easy to tell this case because usually it requires me doing things I don't like to do (like going out on a day that I had planed to stay home, so I am actually just finding excuses instead of telling you that I don't feel like going out). Also, I won't come to you complaining about the problem (if I can get away without a discusion, great). I will just start throwing excuses after you ask me why not.

Second case (still, most probably not what you are asking here for) has to do with the way I seek out solutions. My thought flow is non - linear, I get distracted while I think (unless I am not writing things down and especially if other people are around or I am under pressure). I try to find reasons why my own solutions (and yours, for the matter) do not work because I want to make sure that if the solution is not right, I find out before making my mind. The path to a plan has many steps back, but once I am done I need the plan to be perfect. So I will try to find reasons why solutions don't work. Lastly, I think out loud (unless I don't want you to know what I am thinking). So what you hear is exactly what goes on in my head. Sometimes I do reject my own ideas, other times I reject ideas and then decide they were worth it. I am indecisive and juggle between ideas / opportunities / arguments. My thought flow is a mess and if I let you in, you might get confused if I am trying to solve an issue or not.

The third case - most probably why your wife acts that way occasionally:
Sometimes I want to solve / do sth. but at the same time I don't. I find myself complaining to other people why I cannot follow through with that thing and fighting their suggestions on purpose. It takes a little time on my side and efforts on theirs for me to realize that something troubles me. What troubles me is related to whatever thing I am trying to solve. Maybe I fear it wont work out, maybe I am second-guessing my decision in going through with that decision. Maybe I am disappointed in me or someone else involved. For example, years ago I was going to apply for a scholarship in the country I had been dreaming on studying. At first people were telling me that it was not worth it and my chances were slim, but I put up a huge effort to complete the requisites against the odds and what people were telling me. It wasn't easy. The day before the deadline for the application, I had every document and requirement ready. All I had to do is send the application. That cost around 30Euro because I needed it delivered fast. 30 Euro are not that little money where I come from, but the total application had already cost me more than that, as well as asking for favors and telling a couple of white lies. (Also, this scholarship was one of my biggest dreams.) Instead, I had my mind set that the there was no way I could send the application in time without even checking. My best friend (poor thing) was there looking for ways to deliver the folder and looking for ideas while I kept arguing every single one of them. She got tired of my attitude (who blames her) and told my straight on my face that I it was as if I did not want to send the damned application (if so, I was wasting her time). That brought me into my senses because:
- She was telling the truth
- She does not speak b***. If she makes such statements, I tend to hear her out because usually she has a point.
- she was straightforward (and a little brutal) but still it did not feel as if she was attacking me
- at the mention that I was taking time from her that she needed, I felt the need to reconsider with honesty because I love her and care for her

After reflecting for a second or two I realized what was going on. I had invested so much, in so many different ways, in something I wanted with all of my heart, against almost everybody's judgement. I was tired and exhausted. Failing after all this anticipation and sacrifices scared the hell out of it. It was not just fear of failing, but also of facing the fact that maybe I had made the wrong decision. I needed a break to recharge, put the pressure aside and get back to my usually optimistic, ambitious self, but did not have the time for this break.

Once I faced things as they were (my bff made me snap out of this panicky mode, like she usually does), I realized that all this investment I had done was the reason why I should give it a try. That is my thinking in normal mode. Under different types of stress, I go back to being irrational, counter-productive, short-sighted and escapist. All I wanna do is quit, but I cannot face the fact that I am being a quitter so I try to justify it in the most unreasonable ways possible.

I called this friend my bff, but I don't really believe in bffs. I do believe in very very close friends to whom I trust greatly and she is probably one out of the 3 equal members of this group. She and another of my friends are ENTPs, the third is an INFJ. They have lots of different aspects of their personalities, but all three are able to call on my shit when I revert in child mode. The way they do it is by keeping their calm and patience (very important) and objectively pursuing me to see that I am making arguments up. After they have me speechless with no more nonsense to say, they remind me to look inwards for the real problem. They don't make me feel attacked (or I will walk away, shut them away or snap back). They make me feel that they are trying to see my point and feel that in the end it is my choice.

To shortly answer your questions:
1 - I wouldn't know about it being a infj trait, but it is definitely not a woman's trait. More on it on point 3
2- Just listen and nod your head or ignoring her is a no-no in so many ways, unless you don't care. Most importantly, it is not helpful to the issue at hand. She is being unreasonable and will carry on with it unless she comes to her senses (which probably will take longer than it should). Also, if you do that, after a while she will feel that you don't care, don't stand up for her etc. Idk about how you keep from getting angry. Hopefully it helps remembering that wife is not an irrational person and if she is acting this way means she is feeling troubled.
3- Like every (negative) personality trait, I am don't think it can be 'cured', only treated. If she is a generally reasonable person, you have to understand that being unreasonable stems from her emotions. Ruling emotion, or facing them for the matter, is not easy. I think tiring her till she breaks or relaxing her till she is calm enough to see things as they are can be the most efficient strategies. But INFJs will turn their backs when feeling unloved, uncared for or misunderstood. Your positive attitude should be at its best.

Good luck with your wife. You've come this far - you must be a terrific husband.