INFJ's Obsession with Power

I don't really want power, I want control. There are so many things in life that are out of your hands, and I so long for the abillity to control each one of them. I hate hate hate throwing caution into the wind, and letting things just go.
 
darkstar said:
Isn't power the same as control? All of us "J"s do not want to "wing it" I think.
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I see power as ruling over others. I have no desire for that. I only want power over myself, which I see as control I guess.
 
darkstar said:
LOL, because I see control as control over others. All just semantics I guess. The consensus is then, that we just want power over our own lives and to make sure others are treated fairly.
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pretty much
 
I have an extreme need/strive for power and recognition and proudness from my surroundings haha. Not in the sense that of an evil abusive leader, but in an achieving state. When I achieve something and distinguish myself, then I feel as if I have power.
 
darkstar said:
The consensus is then, that we just want power over our own lives and to make sure others are treated fairly.
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Having power over our own lives and making sure others are treated fairly is indeed having power over the people who wish exactly the opposite. For the tyrants that do have dreams of oppressing others, we would then be their oppressors.

Someone will be oppressed either way, so what defines right and wrong and what defines progress? *Hint - It's a trick question*
 
I think that wanting power and control are different.

But I also believe that the people who are best able to use power wisely and wield their authority justly are the ones who are qualified for those positions of power, but who really don't want them.
 
Hmmmm...true power, control, those that don't want it, influencial, dominate, you folk have a lot to think on here. From the little I have seen, infj types have power, period. They have it because of their ways of using it for the betterment of the populace. Yes, even from the background we assert ourselves, and is it not our self that people seem to listen to? They do not look at what they see in us as power; they see it more as ability and understanding. The older you get and the more you assert your abilities from behind the scenes, the more others will notice you do not seek credit or even self-gratification as much as you do seeing what should be or what is right happen. You have a keen sense that has been gifted to you already because of your attitude. No one else can harness this power like you can; calming the waters before the storm ever hits, stopping the killings before they happen; even stopping or preventing wars because people know you do not have anything but the general well-being of everyone involved in your mind. You judge things without taking sides. Like it or not, you have this ability and it will only grow. The few people you have chosen or will choose to speak about these matters with will know who to share this with. It will happen. It is our destiny to help this place we call the world, though we are ultimately more concerned with the basic human needs moreso than the planet itself. We are here for a reason. Those close to you will know, as over the years time and time again they will see the negative outcomes you warned about happen because of those that have worldly power's not listening or taking heed to the insight you try to share. As someone had quoted as part of a signature a week ago or so,
We are the best friend of the state. That, to me, is a duty moreso than a power. Wield it uncompromised and without fear. Choose those you share your insights with carefully as you grow. You have read the opinion of a male infj in his mid to late fifties. Good to know there are more of you out there to keep things going as we pass on, and a shame money speaks louder than reason.
 
just me said:
Hmmmm...true power, control, those that don't want it, influencial, dominate, you folk have a lot to think on here. From the little I have seen, infj types have power, period. They have it because of their ways of using it for the betterment of the populace. Yes, even from the background we assert ourselves, and is it not our self that people seem to listen to? They do not look at what they see in us as power; they see it more as ability and understanding. The older you get and the more you assert your abilities from behind the scenes, the more others will notice you do not seek credit or even self-gratification as much as you do seeing what should be or what is right happen. You have a keen sense that has been gifted to you already because of your attitude. No one else can harness this power like you can; calming the waters before the storm ever hits, stopping the killings before they happen; even stopping or preventing wars because people know you do not have anything but the general well-being of everyone involved in your mind. You judge things without taking sides. Like it or not, you have this ability and it will only grow. The few people you have chosen or will choose to speak about these matters with will know who to share this with. It will happen. It is our destiny to help this place we call the world, though we are ultimately more concerned with the basic human needs moreso than the planet itself. We are here for a reason. Those close to you will know, as over the years time and time again they will see the negative outcomes you warned about happen because of those that have worldly power's not listening or taking heed to the insight you try to share. As someone had quoted as part of a signature a week ago or so,
We are the best friend of the state. That, to me, is a duty moreso than a power. Wield it uncompromised and without fear. Choose those you share your insights with carefully as you grow. You have read the opinion of a male infj in his mid to late fifties. Good to know there are more of you out there to keep things going as we pass on, and a shame money speaks louder than reason.
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Very enlightening and empowering post. I never really did see myself as 'powerful' as an INFJ -- I have just known that there are times when I would struggle, but thanks to having integrity, would not struggle alone. There were times when people would believe in me, I would complain against an injustice and suprisingly people would be willing to back me up, almost without my having to ask.

I remember at one time thinking that I was weak and inferior (I sometimes do), and then an NT I knew had told me that those qualities of mine which I thought were weak were actually strengths when looked at from a different point of view.

In this world that we live in where blind assertion is one of the only prized commodities -- INFJs have a special gift which sets them apart from that. They, by nature, possess integrity and other-interest -- as Jung stated "that society is so desperately wanting".

To that, INFJs have their own way of effecting change. I think this is real power in a way.

Oh and that quote that justme was talking about was this one, from the Art of War
And so he advances yet does not seek fame
Retreats but does not avoid blame
He seeks only to preserve the people
And his advantage accords with the ruler
He is the treasure of the state
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It is one of the most profound quotes I have ever read. Theres a few exerpts from the book here. I pretty much like all of these.
 
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INFJ'S Obssesion with Power

just me said:
Hmmmm...true power, control, those that don't want it, influencial, dominate, you folk have a lot to think on here. From the little I have seen, infj types have power, period. They have it because of their ways of using it for the betterment of the populace. Yes, even from the background we assert ourselves, and is it not our self that people seem to listen to? They do not look at what they see in us as power; they see it more as ability and understanding. The older you get and the more you assert your abilities from behind the scenes, the more others will notice you do not seek credit or even self-gratification as much as you do seeing what should be or what is right happen. You have a keen sense that has been gifted to you already because of your attitude. No one else can harness this power like you can; calming the waters before the storm ever hits, stopping the killings before they happen; even stopping or preventing wars because people know you do not have anything but the general well-being of everyone involved in your mind. You judge things without taking sides. Like it or not, you have this ability and it will only grow. The few people you have chosen or will choose to speak about these matters with will know who to share this with. It will happen. It is our destiny to help this place we call the world, though we are ultimately more concerned with the basic human needs moreso than the planet itself. We are here for a reason. Those close to you will know, as over the years time and time again they will see the negative outcomes you warned about happen because of those that have worldly power's not listening or taking heed to the insight you try to share. As someone had quoted as part of a signature a week ago or so,
Choose those you share your insights with carefully as you grow. You have read the opinion of a male infj in his mid to late fifties. Good to know there are more of you out there to keep things going as we pass on, and a shame money speaks louder than reason.
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I may have misunderstood the part of this quote about being a friend of the state. To me the state is part of the bureaucratic machine that oppresses rather than helps the people it is supposed to serve, and therefore it is my enemy; at the very least an obstacle to seeing injustices righted, to seeing even the poorest among us treated as valuable. I want to see an end to political posturing while people starve in the streets, to stop "providers"--agencies created to help the poor, the disabled, the elderly--make their profits off the backs of those they are supposed to support. I'm not talking about the new middle-class poor that Obama seems to focus on, though certainly there are injustices there that need to be addressed; I'm talking about the invisible, the marginalized, those at the very bottom of the ladder, those that make us avert our eyes when we pass them on the street.

When I was younger, I joined in demonstrations against such inequities, got arrested, etc., but as I grow older I see that as a waste of my passion. I've come to believe you can't win at city hall or even our nation's capital, much less corporate America. Recently I've begun to see art as a more effective avenue. If powerful enough, it grabs the attention of the populace, and forces people to focus on what they would otherwise ignore. It can raise the consciousness of people more readily than all the letter writing to legislators, all the chanting in the halls of power. Once the injustices are exposed, and large numbers of people are moved to do something about it, sufficient pressure can be brought to bear on politicians, the bureaucrats, the corporations. Then you have allies. I'm realistic enough to know it won't save everyone, but even if it provides a helping hand to some, there's accomplishment, but it all starts with one person or a small group of people dedicated to bettering the lives of the oppressed.

Some examples: I can't remember her first name but there is a "Kennedy", a younger woman, who did a pictoral/bio history of a couple of families in the Appalachians. It focused on their abject poverty and drew national attention to the people's plight and it helped a "few" of them in a big way. Charley Wilson's war; a U.S. Senator couldn't get the government to do anything about the Russians brutalizing Afghan citizens so he "found a way" to do it himself and it worked until the bureaucracy got ahold of it and it went to shit again. Many of Johnny Cash's songs were written because of social or personal wrongs he experienced and was made aware of. The same is true of John Prine, Woody Guthrie, etc.. Willie Nelson's farm-aid, didn't work for most but did help some. And the list goes on.

Anyway, those are my early Friday morning ramblings. Hope they make sense.
 
You should understand that when it comes to anything quoted from the art of war, that many of the objects mentioned are just abstractions/metaphors for any given piece which is relevant to you. For example.

"The general/commander" is an abstraction of yourself.
"The sovereign/ruler" is an abstraction of anyone who rules your actions in a specific context (such as your boss)
"The military" is an abstraction of force in general
"The state" is an abstraction of the larger theater in which you're operating. It could be your job, your community, your nation, and even the human race.

It is true that the state could also represent any organization which is run by bureaucratic principles. And such principles and even actions taken as part of this system can be restrictive, or even in more extreme cases oppressive. But these types of systems are usually an amalgamation of the flaws of human nature, meant to protect us from them, yet also easily influenced by them ('groupthink' is an example of a flaw) -- or to secure the power base of the soverign (if the sovereign is benevolent, he or she can use that power to act for the good of the multitude, or for the good of himself -- often both, but usually one is prioritized more than the other). The INFJ in particular can go with the system, attempting to shape it into something positive -- or resist the system and attempt to revolutionize it. Revolution is tricky business, and often needs catalysts -- which is the role that NFs typically fill.
 
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INFJ'S Obssesion with Power

Zero Angel said:
You should understand that when it comes to anything quoted from the art of war, that many of the objects mentioned are just abstractions/metaphors for any given piece which is relevant to you. For example.

"The general/commander" is an abstraction of yourself.
"The sovereign/ruler" is an abstraction of anyone who rules your actions in a specific context (such as your boss)
"The military" is an abstraction of force in general
"The state" is an abstraction of the larger theater in which you're operating. It could be your job, your community, your nation, and even the human race.

It is true that the state could also represent any organization which is run by bureaucratic principles. And such principles and even actions taken as part of this system can be restrictive, or even in more extreme cases oppressive. But these types of systems are usually an amalgamation of the flaws of human nature, meant to protect us from them, yet also easily influenced by them ('groupthink' is an example of a flaw) -- or to secure the power base of the soverign (if the sovereign is benevolent, he or she can use that power to act for the good of the multitude, or for the good of himself -- often both, but usually one is prioritized more than the other). The INFJ in particular can go with the system, attempting to shape it into something positive -- or resist the system and attempt to revolutionize it. Revolution is tricky business, and often needs catalysts -- which is the role that NFs typically fill.
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Thanks for the explanation, Zero. You clarified a lot. It's early and I'm rushed, so probably wasn't clear. I like the way you think.
 
Zero Angel said:
I remember at one time thinking that I was weak and inferior (I sometimes do), and then an NT I knew had told me that those qualities of mine which I thought were weak were actually strengths when looked at from a different point of view.
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Zero, please fill me in here. I have the same struggles, and would like another perspective on inferiority, etc.
 
I don't know really. A sense of inferiority is something I struggle with on a near-daily basis. I can only alleviate it temporarily by accomplishing something. Nothing seems to work on it really, not logic, or affirmation or attention seeking or any other methods one uses to boost ones self esteem. I suppose it is a pattern that works itself out in time.
 
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Can you give an example of viewing a "weakness" as a "strength" then? Just trying to get the mindset.
 
Well think of it in terms of the MBTI. Being intuitive grants one the ability to think at a longer range to 'think outside the box' -- where many sensors would think a policy is good because it addresses an immediate concern, an intuitor might see how it would be negative in the long run -- and while being a sensor gives you a short-sighted view of things it can also give one the grounding to address the more immediate. It just like a person who is introverted (typically considered a bad trait by many extroverts) can possess tons of depth underneath the otherwise static surface of his personality (can be considered a good trait).

I'm not going to list all the 'negative' traits of the INFJ which are good in other contexts (that would take all day, and is probably suitable for its own topic). I suppose you would have to view yourself without overlaying your own emotional baggage onto it in order to get a clear picture
 
There is also a general "state" of being out there......much to ponder.
 
Never thought of it like that
 
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