Insight into INFJ men: luxury of analysis or the volatility of passive-aggression?

[HunterO]

So here it is. INFJs are abstract free thinkers, which trust me, its a pretty hard job. Ni is not certain like Te ( althought I know ENTJs have Ni as a secondary function, but in their case Ni is guarded/grounded by Te ), at least in the beginning...after some times, Ni+Fe+Ti can develop some maturity in terms of confidence and certainty.

Aside from this, I just find it intriguing that you guys were making up eachother. ENTJs + INFJs can be a strong match!

Just curious...emotional immaturity means also... whiny? I've been found this stereotype about INFJs males, which I think is false, so I'm curious to hear your thoughts on this!

You make some very thought provoking points I think though that Fe could potentially be detrimental when making decisions because it is about group consensus. Perhaps that is the reason for the clash that I had with my INFJ- he cared about consensus, whereas that wasn't a goal objective for me. I think being together with completely different political and religious views is something I don't feel uncomfortable with as long as we share the same internal values; whereas I think the former is something he holds dear to his heart and will find problematic if I disagreed with his opinions.

He wasn't whiny at all. In reality, I'm more of the whinger Thank God for Happy Hour and the gym, otherwise my poor SOs might have to deal with my temperamental rants...He wasn't a whiner, but he was a bit of a baby in the way that I suppose all men tend to want to be babied sometimes. Preparing nice dinners for him and taking care of him when he was sick was something that I think he found the most lovable about me.

Our current culture is not set up for INFJ's. Our society currently lives under certain ideologies that are an anathema to people of conscience for example rampant consumerism, neoliberalism and monopolistic capitalism

These ideas which are formulated into 'ideologies' or 'philosophies' are basically the product of sick minds and the results of these ideas can be seen manifesting in all of the problems we see around us in the world right now

Alcohol might be a persons consolation in such a harsh environment; i barely drink myself but i drank a lot in my late teens

Emotional maturity is HONESTY; its not a game...it is the the underlying moulding force of our reality. A lack of honesty creates a shit reality, a lot of honesty creates a good reality

What we are seeing in the world at the moment is a lack of honesty which is why 'whistleblowers' are having to come forward to try to restore some balance

I am speaking in generalisations here (but then so is MBTI) but what you are likely to find with INFJ's is that they have read huge amounts, observed huge amounts, and reflected on things more than most people

They feel a drive to understand the meanings behind things and generally put FAR MORE ENERGY into this than other people

People wonder where their insights come from and sometimes say things like ''how can you possibly know that?'' It will be at that point that the INFJ politely bites their tongue but what they really want to say is: ''because whilst you were watching X Factor and **insert name of soap opera or sports event** I was learning stuff!''
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He may have been reacting to different aspects of you. So he may have loved you but found aspects such as the disagreements to be difficult? (remember INFJ's don't generally like conflict). That might create a tug and pull indecision?

I don't think jelousy is an INFJ trait per se

There's a good thread that someone started recently looking at MBTI types and their roles in society. it might shed some more light:

It discusses a study that looks at different personality types and their roles in society: careerassessmentsite.com/mbti-personality-types-socioeconomic-infographic

If you don't mind an observation Muir, but you remind me a lot of people who work in the financial industries, especially what you said about the whistleblower part. I agree our current society is configured for consumerism and capitalism, however I don't think the public at large is as gullible as they have been treated by the media. I find most people quite intelligent; however application of that intelligence is an entirely another matter...

To be honest, I got the feeling that INFJs expect you to guess why they were mad or extrapolate why they were feeling jealous. I consider myself good at reading people, but I'm certainly not psychic. I expect my partner to tell me when he feels jealous, but I suppose that's a bit unrealistic considering how men have a tendency to sulk. (!) At least when I'm feeling jealous, I tell him straight away. He doesn't and let it build and build until it finally comes out and we have a row about it.

In terms of the career assessment site that you linked, I think that is heavily based on military personnel and people who work for banking and financial industries and doesn't encompass the wide range of personalities in multiple professions.

yes, immature INFJs can have problems. ive had some of the problems you mentioned, and i am definitely an INFJ. at this time in my development i experience my personality as being ultra simplified, but in the past, i experienced it as complicated and difficult to manage. i knew that there were a lot of complex things that i needed to understand and i understood none of them. it took time and work to figure it all out. im sure other types have their own problems in coming to maturity too.

i was struck by what you wrote about not letting arguments go. i know i was like that in the past and it was something i had to recognise in myself. i see other members on the forum act in this way too. i think its because when you are beginning on the developmental path as an infj, everything seems like a matter of intense ethical urgency. its not just about the ideas - its about whether they are right or wrong; and wrong is inflexible. i think eventually you get to recognise that things are a bit more fluid and grey than right and wrong, and so it becomes easier to recognise the validity of alternative perspectives.

Those are very insightful remarks and I'm glad you shared your POV. I see how Fe vs Te could potentially have a significant part in the breakdown of communication. INFJs need for consensus clashes with the ENTJs objective of exploring possibilities. It sounds a bit reductive but I think consensus is the last thing I think of when engaging in dialogue and I do see that INFJs believe very passionately in anything they discuss whereas ENTJs or other Ts can take a more light-hearted approach.

There ARE people out there who DO argue for policys which DO lead to rape and poverty

Well not to derail the thread about rape, but rape is often, a very complex situation, in which the common usage of the term of "rape" is not necessarily about strangers violently raping women as depicted in Rubens' Rape of the Sabine Women. In legalese, rape is often defined as a breakdown of communication between two lovers, or else an underage person having consensual sex with an older person or even a person having consensual sex under the influence, so there are many variations of rape. However, most "rapes" are not reported and often most rape victims are men being raped by other men in the prison system, so there are many arenas to evaluate the type of rape inflicted by others in various situations.

Huh, we'll I guess I was "fortunate" to have to mature so quickly due to inefficient parenting skills and a shit ton of trauma. I still struggle with some of the negative personality aspects inherent to INFJs just not what this one is dealing with. thanks for reminding me about the socionics difference that's probably why I was thinking INFP for this guy. I also was a little biased being my one INFP friend was pretty unhealthy when I met him so he exhibited most of the traits she mentioned in the op.

In my opinion, I think everyone needs to go through an "unhealthy" phase to see things in a different light. Most people have had an adolescence that wasn't at all indicative of perfect family life despite the exterior personae. I'm rather suspicious of "perfect" people as I tend to think most people who are the most aware and have the most emotional intelligence are the ones who have at one time, been through a trying period of transition or even rage against society. Of course, this doesn't apply to all, but we should take into account the vicissitudes of life instead of thinking people should be content all the time, which is unnatural.

 

[muir]

If you don't mind an observation Muir, but you remind me a lot of people who work in the financial industries, especially what you said about the whistleblower part.

I am about as far from the financial services as it is possible to be in both outlook, career path and politics

I agree our current society is configured for consumerism and capitalism, however I don't think the public at large is as gullible as they have been treated by the media. I find most people quite intelligent; however application of that intelligence is an entirely another matter...

I have trust in people to do the right thing when they have all the info

To be honest, I got the feeling that INFJs expect you to guess why they were mad or extrapolate why they were feeling jealous.

As i stated very clearly i don't think jelousy is an INFJ thing per se; i would not consider myself a jealous person at all

In fact i would expect INFJ's to be less jealous and more emotionally independent than most types

I consider myself good at reading people, but I'm certainly not psychic. I expect my partner to tell me when he feels jealous, but I suppose that's a bit unrealistic considering how men have a tendency to sulk. (!)

I think thats a bit of a side swipe at men in general that doesn't really take into account that most men are thinking types like yourself

At least when I'm feeling jealous, I tell him straight away. He doesn't and let it build and build until it finally comes out and we have a row about it.

Perhaps you are not as good at reading people as you like to believe and are missing a lot of the signs of distress in your partner? (as in you are not empathically tuned to them)

In terms of the career assessment site that you linked, I think that is heavily based on military personnel and people who work for banking and financial industries and doesn't encompass the wide range of personalities in multiple professions.

Where does it say on the site that the sample base was from the military and banking? I'm interested to know if thats the case

Those are very insightful remarks and I'm glad you shared your POV. I see how Fe vs Te could potentially have a significant part in the breakdown of communication. INFJs need for consensus clashes with the ENTJs objective of exploring possibilities. It sounds a bit reductive but I think consensus is the last thing I think of when engaging in dialogue and I do see that INFJs believe very passionately in anything they discuss whereas ENTJs or other Ts can take a more light-hearted approach.

INFJ's can be lighthearted but some things are serious issues

Well not to derail the thread about rape, but rape is often, a very complex situation, in which the common usage of the term of "rape" is not necessarily about strangers violently raping women as depicted in Rubens' Rape of the Sabine Women. In legalese, rape is often defined as a breakdown of communication between two lovers, or else an underage person having consensual sex with an older person or even a person having consensual sex under the influence, so there are many variations of rape. However, most "rapes" are not reported and often most rape victims are men being raped by other men in the prison system, so there are many arenas to evaluate the type of rape inflicted by others in various situations.

Sure there are nuances to these issues but there is also solid foundations relating to the need for people to be consenting adults

 

[HunterO]

Perhaps you are not as good at reading people as you like to believe and are missing a lot of the signs of distress in your partner? (as in you are not empathically tuned to them)

That could be true. I sometimes did have a habit in my past relationship and ask my partners, "Why are you crying?" I am good at reading body language and motivations of people, but I don't think I give that emotional reassurance that INFJs and other NF types may need.

Anyhow as a bit of update, I was with my INFJ all weekend and we decided to work things out. Of course, he being 6 years younger and starting a graduate programme soon makes me feel a bit unsettled, but I suppose not all relationships have to have an end goal. I think as an ENTJ, I tend to map things out before I act, and I need that certainty and stability, and with him, I feel we're walking on an unpaved path that has yet to be written, but I wonder if our societal constructs pushes us toward these norms?

One more thing about my INFJ, he does give me very great emotional support when I feel pessimistic about my career, and through him, I have learned to be more of an active listener. I did verbalise my doubts that I think he would meet someone else during his graduate programme, and I didn't want to hold him back if he did, but he was very good about reassuring me.

 

[muir]

That could be true. I sometimes did have a habit in my past relationship and ask my partners, "Why are you crying?" I am good at reading body language and motivations of people, but I don't think I give that emotional reassurance that INFJs and other NF types may need.

Anyhow as a bit of update, I was with my INFJ all weekend and we decided to work things out. Of course, he being 6 years younger and starting a graduate programme soon makes me feel a bit unsettled, but I suppose not all relationships have to have an end goal. I think as an ENTJ, I tend to map things out before I act, and I need that certainty and stability, and with him, I feel we're walking on an unpaved path that has yet to be written, but I wonder if our societal constructs pushes us toward these norms?

One more thing about my INFJ, he does give me very great emotional support when I feel pessimistic about my career, and through him, I have learned to be more of an active listener. I did verbalise my doubts that I think he would meet someone else during his graduate programme, and I didn't want to hold him back if he did, but he was very good about reassuring me.

Great stuff!

I wish you both all the best

Be gentle with him

 

[54tjsioU]

Well, as it seems you've made up with the guy my input might be to late... I'm gonna put my two cents in anyway *shrugs* lol. The Only thing I personally identify with on that list you had made in the beginning is, well, I don't care to be right however I don't like to argue. I think if you were arguing with him, especially on subjects he values, it feels like an attack. And while you are arguing for play and fun, he sees you laughing at something he cares about, you're essentially making a joke of it in his eyes. Which I could see him turning to always have to "be right" because you've taken this topic he may or may not care about, told him its wrong, argued with him about it -probably with a smile as you were being playful- and now he sees every opinion you have as something he needs to combat. He doesn't feel safe anymore, and in the one thing we NEED, I would need, to feel safe in is sharing my thoughts and ideas.

Now, I'm sure more often than not people don't know that this is what happens. You're not the bad guy in doing this, you two just think very differently. If you can explain to him, "Hey, I am not arguing with you because I think you're wrong, I'm doing it cause its a kind of foreplay for me and for me it's all in good fun. I'd like to argue with you in that kind of playful tone and I understand now that you feel like I'm attacking you when I never meant to. If we could set up some boundaries in what we can argue about, that you will know I'm not serious, I'd enjoy that." And give him something he want's too, if he'll actually... tell you... which really just, might not even happen. But to him, he probably doesn't understand what you're doing and I think if you can explain it clearly to him he'll... if anything be more accepting or happy that you didn't really care if he put ketchup on his eggs.

Also be ready for him to say, "No, I don't like to argue, I think its shitty."