INTJ: Does this INFJ like me at all?

[hylas89]

[[ long-time lurker finally posting after making an account; thanks for taking the time to read what probably means the world to me, but may be banal to you! ]]

What an enigma. Perhaps that's part of the reason I like her so much. I'm a 20-year-old INTJ and there's this 21-year-old INFJ for whom I have strong feelings. We met last month at one of the university's clubs. We share recreational and intellectual interests. I asked her out the night I met her, and we've had a few dates 1-on-1. (I'm a little inexperienced with dating, so please be understanding.)

These dates seemed to go well. The first two I planned out and we're pretty adventuresome. We went into the city and went longer than planned. She smiled, made eye-contact, and divulged lots of information about her family and her personality. She told me she had a good time.

However, her body language was inscrutable. There was no touching, not even a light touch on the shoulder. Near the end of the second date I asked if I could hold her hand, she said "sure" but she quickly let go after a few seconds and seemed a little flustered but cold. I told her very explicitly that I liked her and she said she wanted to "take things as they come."

Later I sent her an email saying that she should contact me if she wanted to hang out, and we had a much more informal date in the park. Everything felt cordial like we'd just met again. We later had coffee a few days later after she turned down my offer for a date in the city (she said she wanted to postpone it for later).

Because of midterms we didn't see each other for 2 weeks, until this weekend. There was a convention on campus we both attended, and we planned to meet up after a presentation. We were both in the audience and seated apart from each other. We saw each other during the speech. But afterwards she seemed to storm away from me.

I went after her nonetheless and by fate we got 2 free tickets to a concert that night. So we had a really nice dinner and went to the concert, followed by an after-party with mutual friends. I had 2 bottles of beer and she seemed much more flirtatious than before. Again, she would make no physical contact but we would verbally flirt. I'd touch her and she wouldn't recoil or move away.

One thing that concerned me was that she would touch other guys at the party and earlier that day while talking to them, though they weren't really verbally flirting. Though in my gut I think they are more her Platonic friends than anything else.

Anyway, the police came right as she began to drink (this was our first time in a setting with alcohol), and the party was shut down. I walked her home and while walking I tried to hold her hand (without asking) and she pulled her hand away. However, our conversation during the trip back was still really nice and we got along well.

At her door she asked me if I had a good time, and I told her that I had a good time because she was with me, and that I'm happy regardless of where I am as long as she's there. I told her that she knew my feelings and that if she should contact me if she wanted to see me again.

One potential problem is that she is going away in 2 months since she is an international student, and I told her I recognize that fact but would like to enjoy that time together anyway, no matter if it's short. Right before we parted that night, she said she might stay on for another semester (+4 months), though earlier she said she was definitely leaving in 2. (but of course it'd be egotistical to think it was on my account, right?)

Ahhh, I hope she doesn't somehow read this, lol! Thanks for reading guys and gals!

[[ THE CONDENSED VERSION (tl;dr) ]]
Still not sure on where her feelings lie:
-- She gets nervous around me or acts aloof like I don't matter.
-- She will not touch me, though she will flirt with me verbally.
-- She will touch other guys, though I don't think she likes them (maybe I'm wrong?)
-- She dislikes it when I try to hold her hand.
-- Yet she continues to see me when she knows I like her, since I told her.

 

[88chaz88]

Tacos. Large net.

Never fails.

 

[IndigoSensor]

Sorry to say but I don't see or sense any romantic potential from this. It seems to me that she likes you as a person or a friend, but does not have any deeper interest. The fact that she talks, is friendly, and gives deeper information about herself says she trusts you on a mental level, and maybe an emotional level, but doesn't have any interest beyond this. If she were romantically interested it is very likely she would have been more physical at this point. Not so much with putting in a lot of effort to it, but more being permissive.

Again I am sorry to say, but I suspect this is a "just friends" situation.

 

[hylas89]

Is there any way to change her mind, if this is the case?

 

[IndigoSensor]

Is there any way to change her mind, if this is the case?

You can't "change her mind", nor should you. Just because you want a relationship with her, does not mean she would want on with you as well, and you have to respect that. I am on the assumption here that she wants to just be friends, keep that in mind, nevertheless you can't make her want something just because you want it. Relationships are not something you can "win", nor really control. Trying to do so ends up not working out. Either you will find yourself bending who you are too far and end up causing internal strain on you, and the relationship. Or, you will end up goading her into something she does not want on her own. This will cause false feelings which is a huge injustice to her and yourself. Further, it could cause resentment from you, or her.

You clearly are putting in effort, you have, she knows your interested. If she does not reciprocate, then you have to let it be. It would be unfair to make her do something she does not appear to want, just because you want it. Relationships are two sided. For you to go into this with just your interests in mind not regarding hers says to me you aren't ready for this to begin with.

 

[hylas89]

I think you bring up some great points, though I think it's unfair to presume I don't have her interests in mind. If I do indeed believe she wants to be just friends, I will respect that and be her friend and accept her boundaries. How will I know if she reciprocates? I am just baffled that I have told her where I stand, yet she has made no indication of her feelings either way... I just wish that if she wanted to be just friends, she would have told me so. Thanks again for your advice.

 

[IndigoSensor]

If you really want a straight answer, then just ask her to tell you how she feels, and if she wants a relationship or not. Hopefully, she is not the kind of person who will won't say yes/no (personally, I don't give people like that the time of day). A lot of people will not want to say they just want to be friends, as they do not wish to hurt anothers feelings. INFJ's in particular will often be this way. You seem to know what you want, then just ask and find out what she is thinking.

 

[arbygil]

The issue "clicked" for me when you mentioned that she was an international student, and that she was leaving in a few months. INFJs are in it for the long haul. It's very likely that she wants to keep you in the friendzone, because she's not sure if she can continue a long distance relationship. It doesn't mean she doesn't like you, but she's keeping it neutral because she knows she won't be able to go that deep with you before she takes off.

 

[KorJax]

Also to me it sounds like you started going WAY too fast and coming on way too strong, and due to her inexperience with dating she fell prey to it, but maybe was flattered by it at first.

INFJ's don't like for romance/dating to be "forced" by any stretch of the imagination. At least I don't. If I was asked out the first day I met someone, I would probably decline (though a few years ago I would probably accept and be really nervous/excited/confused about it). While making nice appreciated advanced can send me through the roof, too much too soon brings out warning bells, and if it's forced and not "natural" (i.e. asking to hold my hand when we've only known each other for a week or two) will probably cause me to withdraw from the situation.

Again this ties into the long haul thing. INFJ's are not generally interested in "dating for funsies". They love the sweet little things that come up in a relationship such as hand holding, closeness, etc. But they value them highly and don't take them for granted as a means to get "+1 date points" or anything like that. So we aren't interested in that kind of behavior or advances unless it's honestly sincere and we could see us becoming more than just casual friends, and then maybe even more than just casual dates.

 

[Saru Inc]

Tacos. Large net.

Never fails.

Hmmm.... you're on the right track....

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMGCMCw5UK4&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMGCMCw5UK4&feature=related[/ame]


There we go.



Well she's an INFJ that's for sure, and she may like. INFJs tend to get awkward around their soon to be mating partners.

 

[hylas89]

INFJ's are not generally interested in "dating for funsies". They love the sweet little things that come up in a relationship such as hand holding, closeness, etc. But they value them highly and don't take them for granted as a means to get "+1 date points" or anything like that. So we aren't interested in that kind of behavior or advances unless it's honestly sincere and we could see us becoming more than just casual friends, and then maybe even more than just casual dates.

As the INTJ "mastermind" type, perhaps I have an exaggerated tendency to strategize and optimize my goals. Since I like her so much, and I wanted a relationship from her, that became my goal, and I figured the best way to achieve that goal was to do some behavior that would optimize it: intimate physical contact. I had a checklist of things to do during a date, and tried my best to check tasks off the list.

Now I know that was a mistake. Not only is it a bad strategy: It's a bad way to treat another human being. It's not advanced honestly and sincerely, and it goes against the flow of how a relationship should develop.

Now I know I need to lay my expectations and "strategies" off the table, and meet her with zero expectations. Actions arise only out of the natural progressions of things, and what will come will come.

 

[Nevermore]

Here's an INTJ take on the situation (one who's got an INFJ partner). You will probably get frustrated by the apparent lack of movement in a forward direction because although we also are...

1. In it for the long haul
2. Cautious and picky about who we end up with

We also tend to have a defined timeline and plan for 'getting there'. That's just an INTJ trait. Also we tend to have already made up our minds about someone by the time we get to date number #3, because we are decisive by nature. I don't know about you but long distance relationships are not an issue for me (I've had a few that spanned years) and so I never see that as a barrier to something meaningful the way perhaps your potential girl is. I just take it for granted that my mate would be as committed and patient and able to handle it as I am.

So saying all of that this may be your biggest barrier to a relationship as the other's have stated you cannot rush it. It's your nature to want to do so and to feel so sure about your own commitment that you naturally assume the same about the other person. Because we connect well with so few people there is a tendency to want to latch onto anyone that fits the bill and that can be too intense and scary for others. Slow down, breathe and enjoy whatever relationship you have with her right now, allow the relationship to exist on current terms and let her make any moves towards greater intimacy herself. If you back off, she may have the space to do so. If she doesn't, accept it. That's the most respectful thing you can do for her.

 

[Nixie]

Perhaps there is also a cultural aspect that you are not taking into account. As an international student she may have different morals and values that you are unaware of. It seems that she wants to spend time with you even after understanding/stating that you liked you. As a Feeler, she would more than likely discontinue seeing you if she had no feelings for you because she wouldn't want to hurt your feelings. Perhpas the hand holding in public is something that she doesn't feel comfortable doing because of where she is from, not because she isn't interested. The only thing to do is speak with her when a good chance presents itself. So far you seem to have good times in overly social situations (party, concert). I would suggest you continue to look for activities that are easy going without pressuring her and see what evolves.

 

[hylas89]

Because we connect well with so few people there is a tendency to want to latch onto anyone that fits the bill and that can be too intense and scary for others. Slow down, breathe and enjoy whatever relationship you have with her right now, allow the relationship to exist on current terms and let her make any moves towards greater intimacy herself. If you back off, she may have the space to do so. If she doesn't, accept it. That's the most respectful thing you can do for her.

I do suppose INTJ's think so much alike! You read my mind. I am going to try my best to follow your advice and back off and give her some space. The last time I saw her (i.e. after walking her home from the party Saturday night), I told her she should contact me should she want to hang out, so I suppose as long as I don't contact her then I'll give her a good amount of space. For the longest time I thought that girls would naturally become more intimate if I just initiated intimate gestures on them. But that doesn't work, I've learned the hard way. I hope there's still a chance with me and this girl. Thanks for your words.

Perhaps there is also a cultural aspect that you are not taking into account. As an international student she may have different morals and values that you are unaware of. It seems that she wants to spend time with you even after understanding/stating that you liked you. As a Feeler, she would more than likely discontinue seeing you if she had no feelings for you because she wouldn't want to hurt your feelings. Perhpas the hand holding in public is something that she doesn't feel comfortable doing because of where she is from

Perhaps! After the end of our second date, I told her I liked her but I didn't know if she liked me back, and she smiled and said "maybe it's a Norwegian thing." I've heard that Scandinavians are generally a little more distant and less touchy compared to other cultures, so this may be a contributing factor. Also, she has told me before that she is very shy though she doesn't show it externally, and that she gets nervous very easily. I'll make sure to hold off on any future physical contact, unless she unambiguously initiates it. I suppose she knows my interest and she knows it's up to her and her feelings whether she wants to move forward. It's been my deep hope that you're right: That the fact that she continues to see me---knowing my feelings---is an indication that she likes me too. I hope she wouldn't continue to see me without feeling any connection, as I hope she would know that would hurt my feelings.

Thanks for the input! I can't explain how much it means to me!