Is capitalism the best model?

[~jet]

Why, hello there Reaganism

 

[MikeA]

Don't ruin it. The more they believe Socialism is Marxism the more fun I'll have.

Norwegians, Swedes, and Finns rely on an underground network of neo-Nazis to chase out minorities. If you're a minority in a country like that, better stay inside after dark.

This however makes me lulz.

You could drop by here where I live, and you and me can walk into Hells Angels' warehouse together since it's just a block away from my house (Don't worry, I'll protect you with my giant--- brain), and we can call the manager a fag, you and me, we both run in and punch the owner in the face, and see what happens. While we're at it, we take a walk up to my best friend's house and have him tell you stories about what it was like being a member of Vigrid. And on your way home, you can think about how silly it was to compare Norway who isn't stuck in the 90's, with the United States of America who IS still stuck in the 90's. I'm not saying you're stupid, but I am saying you're twenty years late and need a serious update.

 

[MikeA]

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against Americans, but I do have something against general patriotism. Culture can be good, feeling good about where one lives can be good, but one should be able to take a realistic point of view to the standards of ones own country. I look at my own country and see flaws, I nitpick at these flaws, and I make fun of my own country and countrymen because of them. At least I look at the flaws in terms of how they could otherwise be improved. Making jokes about these flaws, making it look ridiculous, will make people notice it, whether they notice it based of their image or the general image of the populous, or out of pure logic, or their sense of right or wrong, it doesn't matter; when people notice something, the message is passed on, and the result of that is that when the message reach the top they will either decide to reform or prevent it from happening again. Taking a stance for ones own country to defend it as a patriotic act against "outsiders opinions" when the country IS in bad shape and in need of reformation is retarded when one instead could consider oneself notified and pass the message on in hope of reformation.

Right now, Norwegians are so blind to their own culture that they think going back two hundred years to reform the culture to as it was back then will improve it and not cause anything negative to the current social environment. In order to pass this reformation they went against the public poll: 80% of Norwegian citizens in this county voted "No," yet they went ahead with it anyway. This is not the first time they're going against the public poll, and there's NOTHING we can do about it. Really, we have no idea why we're voting anymore because voting doesn't affect anything.

For 10 years now, I've been waiting for the state to pull their finger out of their rectal comfort zones and do something to improve tourism, and more importantly help tourists that visit. E.g. There are NO English signs ANYWHERE in this country. We have people all over Europe and Asia that comes to visit, but they have no freakin' clue on where to go or what to do. If there's a fire in a building they are going to be left for dead inside because the signs are all in GIBBERISH (Yes, Norwegian is gibberish).

The last public poll, which I mentioned, about culture, is that they're going to implement the Suomi language in schools, and add Suomi signs everywhere in this county, because this county may or may not have been Suomi over two hundred years ago. It's going to cost the state, and county, an insane amount of money. We're still having trouble keeping the roads from falling apart. Not to mention, that there are hardly any Suomi people up here. 95% of the Suomi people lives in the South of Norway now in the capital, they don't live up here in this county or any of the nearby counties anymore. Yeah, how ridonkulous is that? Yet, we're going to ignore the roads, ignore the tourists, confuse the people in general whether tourist or native, and more importantly go against the public poll. Even the Suomi people are going "What the hell are you guys on acid? Are you really as stupid as to believe we can't speak Norwegian?! Use the money on something useful instead, for crying out loud, there are children starving in the United States of America!"

Ok, that last part is a joke, hopefully you'll be able to see that, but whatever, I don't care. I'm still going to call Norway the last of the Soviet states. I'm waiting for the U.S. to knock on our door soon, find an excuse to launch hundreds of U.S. oil rigs to the Norwegian Sea, and change our democracy to how they want it; say we're evil commies trying to take over the world with our secret warehouses of WMD stashed in our mountains and underneath our fjords. God forbid we hide nukes in our f-j-o-r-d-s. Fjord.. what a stupid name for a plain.

 

[~jet]

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against Americans, but I do have something against general patriotism. Culture can be good, feeling good about where one lives can be good, but one should be able to take a realistic point of view to the standards of ones own country. I look at my own country and see flaws, I nitpick at these flaws, and I make fun of my own country and countrymen because of them. At least I look at the flaws in terms of how they could otherwise be improved.

Oh, American patriotism is a duck-blind. Rural Working Class conservative types buy into it, sure, and probably honestly so... but the people SELLING it to them don't give a crap about America. They're too busy exploiting the nation for their own personal profit, regardless of the fatal consequences for everyone else. The patriotism is false.

You have an extremely rich guy selling you tax cuts, for example... as a laborer, you might get a whole extra $100 a year even though your wages have gone down and the necessities of life double and triple in cost around you. You feel good in the moment and cheer him on, but you're still losing. That same tax cut package, though... that's netting him hundreds of millions. It was never about you... he just gave you candy so you'd look away long enough for him to do it. Meanwhile, the money be absconds with is suddenly no longer available for things like protecting you from burglars, watering your house, keeping your suddenly-unpoliced(unregulated)-industry-originating cancers from endebting not only you but the next three generations of your offspring into all-but-in-name indentured servitude, seeing you survive long enough to find your next job, and preparing your kids to be valuable laborers in the future... no, all that's going away as a result.

A year or two back, an American journalist (i know, oxymoron, right?) interviewed a rich german industrialist CEO (yes, capitalism CAN work in tandem with socialism, thank you very much) and would not let the poor CEO veer too long away from the topic of his very high personal income tax bracket. After dodging the question as irrelevant four or five times, to the shock of the interviewer, the industrialist finally ended it by saying 'I don't want to be a rich man in a poor country.' His high taxes did NOT prevent his entrepreneurialism from setting him up very nicely indeed, nor did OUR high taxes back in the 40s, 50s, 60s, and 70s (i.e., the most economically vibrant america ever knew. An era in which high tax brackets for

 

[Billy]

Oh per capita... I thought you meant for real... because the US GDP actually dwarfs Norways and Scandinavia and the rest of the worlds with only China beginning to rival it. I guess 10 people with 100 dollars is way more then 1000 people with 10 dollars right? Not to mention your country is small, isolated, way less populated and WAY the hell less diverse.

 

[MikeA]

I never really understood taxes. I always make sure to pay more than I have to (Average rate is 36%, I pay about 40%), that way I get a big fat bonus at the end of the year, and then I throw it all away on highly taxed merchandise, HAH, its circle is priceless and indefinite.

But if I was careful with my money, and saved up, I could buy myself a new TV or Computer every two/three months. I'm considered poor in Norway.

 

[MikeA]

Oh per capita... I thought you meant for real... because the US GDP actually dwarfs Norways and Scandinavia and the rest of the worlds with only China beginning to rival it. I guess 10 people with 100 dollars is way more then 1000 people with 10 dollars right? Not to mention your country is small, isolated, way less populated and WAY the hell less diverse.

Of course I meant per capita. Nominal GDP rates are insignificant if it doesn't improve the living condition of its citizens. China being number two on nominal rates has its citizens still living up to their neck in filth.

 

[Billy]

Of course I meant per capita. Nominal GDP rates are insignificant if it doesn't improve the living condition of its citizens. China being number two on nominal rates has its citizens still living up to their neck in filth.

Well rural China yes, urban China depending on the class of people you are with is actually quite clean and luxurious. Kind of like EVERY OTHER COUNTRY ON EARTH. But yeah when you said your country was far richer etc, I figured you were joking, now I just know your deluded. But thats ok, I am glad socialism and high taxation works on a homogenous group of nordics, seriously, its nice to see you all get along, but the way you live isnt exactly gonna fly with the rest of the world where things are a little different.

 

[Billy]

@Billy
@aeon

I'm pretty sure there's a reason why the average Norwegian speaks over five languages fluently, while Americans can hardly speak Spanish spite all the supposed Mexicans they have been whining about for centuries.

Well thats an easy one, because Norway is basically a nothing country... no power, no economy, no influence, no prestige. Although you guys do have tall hot blonde nordic women who seem to gobble American men up on vacation (thanks for that). Looking at you criticize the most powerful, affluent nation on earth while hailing from the middle of literally nowhere is just funny, like band geeks in highschool touting the superiority of their dork-dom while hating on the students who compete for real in competitions that are actually cared about.

By the way, the State of Connecticut my state has something like a 30% higher GDP per capita then your entire country. I think our STATE economy is almost equal, coming in just a little under your measly 300 billion. When you factor in American States like Montana or Wyoming which are basically large vast expanses of land with little to no population density but filled with farmers and people living off the land, yeah our per capita GDP comes down... but pretending your country is somehow elite, is laughable. Dont you guys give out free tanning coupons to combat depression since so many nordics commit suicide? I would too if I lived in a place where it was cold 60% of the time.

 

[aeon]

Oh, come on, it was a hilarious statement.

Use of a double-repeated word with all-caps to denote shouting without an emoticon to indicate levity is at best ambiguous.

Please consider that while you know what you mean and intend, your audience may not, given your means of communication and style within that means.


cheers,
Ian

 

[Barnabas]

How is it that the word "nominal" and "per capita" is not understood by an American but it is understood by someone who's language isn't even English?

I had a really long reply that involved dinners and dollars and a little bit of story telling. But then I started playing Duck Life 3

 

[problemz]

Mike A in Norway hasn't owed up to the factor of North Sea oil which has temporarily pumped up the Norwegian economy. Nor has he discussed that there are many political parties in Norway, and not all of them are socialist.

We have serious problems here with minorities who hold down our economy. Divorce rate in the black community is over 85%. This means with split families and single mothers and kids from various fathers who often turn to crime that our economy is damaged in a way that the Norwegian one isn't. We also have tremendous numbers of Mexicans pouring over the border (refugees from the Counter-Reformation).

The bright side of immigration is the Asians. They typically make more than whites, and have a 2% divorce rate.

He hasn't also talked about how horrific the Scandinavian countries are in terms of boredom. They learn English and come to our forums to get some juice in their lives. America is vital even in its weird inequities.

Everyone in Norway is kind of the same. They've achieved equality at the price of intense and stupefying boredom.

They were better off in the Viking period when at least there was something to do. You could hammer Irish monks, and bring home booty. Now all they do is watch old American TV shows like Starsky and Hutch and open another can of fish soup.

 

[bamf]

[mods]Why the hate? Let's keep the nationalistic/patriotic bickering aside, and keep this on topic.[/mods]

 

[Absch]

Oh per capita... I thought you meant for real... because the US GDP actually dwarfs Norways and Scandinavia and the rest of the worlds with only China beginning to rival it. I guess 10 people with 100 dollars is way more then 1000 people with 10 dollars right? Not to mention your country is small, isolated, way less populated and WAY the hell less diverse.

The European Union has a higher GDP than the US.

Of course I meant per capita. Nominal GDP rates are insignificant if it doesn't improve the living condition of its citizens. China being number two on nominal rates has its citizens still living up to their neck in filth.

Chinas poverty rate has gone down substantially since before the economic reforms. I.e China is the biggest argument FOR capitalism.

But also you don't have many minorities in Scandinavia. Norwegians, Swedes, and Finns rely on an underground network of neo-Nazis to chase out minorities. If you're a minority in a country like that, better stay inside after dark.

Both those statements are wrong. Do I really need to disprove it?

 

[Billy]

The European Union has a higher GDP than the US.

So 1 country vs all of Europe? Well the Americas have more GDP then the EU.

Not to mention the Per capita income for the whole EU is much lower then the US according to Mike A, that makes Europe much poorer.

 

[problemz]

It would be fun to see you attempt to prove that there are no neo-Nazis in Scandinavia, or that no minority is ever attacked by them. I have no idea how I would prove the truth of these statements or their falsity. I spent a few years in that area, and all the minorities I knew (I was one of those) talked about savage and unrelenting attacks. This was in the late 90s. Perhaps things have changed in the last decade. Maybe all the minorities were killed, or left. I knew I didn't want to stick around to find out my fate. I'm not saying most Scandihoovians participated in the attacks. 99% didn't. It just takes one or two in a thousand and there is real trouble afoot. Salt in your gas tank, broken teeth, shouts of nigger, and kike. After midnight, you saw what people were really like in these countries. Even the French were far better behaved. In America, we're quite used to difference, so I think it's relatively enlightened.

 

[problemz]

It took me about four seconds to find this on the web, an account of a neoNazi group that murdered a multicultural boy. This thing is suprisingly common in Scandinavia if you think about the small populations and the very tiny percentage of people of mixed race. It's about three percent in Finland, and maybe 5% in the other countries, with Denmark being the one exception (in Copenhagen):

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1765620.stm

 

[Absch]

So 1 country vs all of Europe? Well the Americas have more GDP then the EU.

Not to mention the Per capita income for the whole EU is much lower then the US according to Mike A, that makes Europe much poorer.

No, I said the European Union(This was in the context of the US being the only economic power). And yes, the EU is poorer than the US per capita(thanks to communism/socialism).

It would be fun to see you attempt to prove that there are no neo-Nazis in Scandinavia, or that no minority is ever attacked by them.

Because this never happens in super diverse and multicultural America? I never said there aren't neo-nazis but that there is an underground network of neo-nazis that chases minorities out? That's just silly, what organizations are you talking about, SMR? ND? SvP? Those are the most extreme and 95% of their time is spent fighting AFA and other Left Wing organizations(which are mostly full of natives). The highest estimate I've heard is that there are around 3000 nazis in total and most of those aren't active. Pretty irrelevant in other words.

I have no idea how I would prove the truth of these statements or their falsity. I spent a few years in that area, and all the minorities I knew (I was one of those) talked about savage and unrelenting attacks. This was in the late 90s. Perhaps things have changed in the last decade. Maybe all the minorities were killed, or left.

They are still here. 15% of the Swedish population was born abroad as of 2010, so homogeneous right?

If we are so racist and horrible how come they keep on coming and staying?

 

[Absch]

It took me about four seconds to find this on the web, an account of a neoNazi group that murdered a multicultural boy. This thing is suprisingly common in Scandinavia if you think about the small populations and the very tiny percentage of people of mixed race. It's about three percent in Finland, and maybe 5% in the other countries, with Denmark being the one exception (in Copenhagen):

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1765620.stm

Did you even read your own link? "in what has been seen as Norway's first race-related murder case.". Yeah, really seems to be common.

 

[problemz]

The moderator asked us not to discuss this thing so I'll stop. But the link said it wasn't the first time that the boy had been threatened. And his friends had similar stories to tell. That it eventuated in an outright murder is pretty ghastly. The thing is that in a small place where homogeneity rules and you stick out, it's easy to get targeted. I'm not saying most Norwegians are racist killers. It just takes one in a thousand and there are problems. I'm also not saying the racism is organized. At least I don't think I said that. It seems rather to be instinctive, and to a great extent it's tolerated and encouraged by vast numbers who agree with the racism, but not necessarily with the brutal tactics that are used by the craziest (murder of a child is an unbelievably vicious act). Of course these things happen everywhere.

Does Norway compare with what took place in Rwanda?

Things like this happen everywhere, but I think you were on your high horse about Norway. We were just trying to ask you to come down and be a little bit more real. But stay up there if you like. It's amusing in its own way!

At any rate, the Scandinavian societies are a problem for Hayekian belief that socialism always eventuates in National Socialism. Sure, there are Nazis in Scandinavia. But not too many. And generally those societies work fairly well for their inhabitants. You have a lot of homogeneity there, and this helps people feel like they are part of one family. I think that helps when you see people on the dole while you are working 55 hour weeks.

I rather liked Scandinavia. I just stopped going out after dark. It was eerie: I was clearly different, and it meant all the headcases beelined toward me, wanting to pick a fight. During the daylight hours it was a good place.

I prefer America with all of its problems. I love our problems.