From the homosexual PoV though, you are right in pointing this out Billy. How do people expect gays to suck it up and not fight back with words when the view they are fighting does everything in its power to keep them out of 'regular' society?
I know Christians get tired of getting picked on verbally, but honestly why do you expect to not have angry people attacking your view when there are so many people who are accepted as being Christian who legally and illegally do almost anything to punish non believers? And this is in the USA, not somewhere in a third world regime.
What good does getting angry back do unless you have a knowledge of the basis of their beliefs? Just like categorizing all gays as this way or that, you can't categorize all Christians to believe this way or that way (or at least that's what I took out of her post). If you're unbiassedly educated of someone's point of view, you can begin to understand where they might be coming from (not saying it's justified) and have a better attack/defense against it.I technically agree with some of the ideas presented here. However; What good does reading the book do when there are very angry book readers in your front lawn looking to punish you for not accepting their interpretation?
What good does getting angry back do unless you have a knowledge of the basis of their beliefs? Just like categorizing all gays as this way or that, you can't categorize all Christians to believe this way or that way (or at least that's what I took out of her post). If you're unbiassedly educated of someone's point of view, you can begin to understand where they might be coming from (not saying it's justified) and have a better attack/defense against it.
Or you could go super-christ on them and turn the proverbial other cheek (assuming that they aren't actually threatening your well-being).
I agree with you in the bold, but the thing is not all Christians or Christianity works that way. The hateful groups get the coverage, but there are Christian sects that have nothing against homosexuality. Then there are those that do have something against homosexuality but do nothing legally about it. Like someone said before, it's throwing all Christians under the bus. Let the bigots be bigots and preach all the hate that they want. The place it has to stop is, like you said, when the loss of your rights and privileges begins.You are making the assumption that to attack the belief is to attack the person though. What I am saying is that the people who stand against 'Christianity' are taking offense at the Christianity that is attacking their lives. They are attacking the belief system because that is what is used as the reason for the bigotry. No one has an issue with someone going to church, reading their bible or singing hymns. Most people felt Mother Teresa was a true saint. But again, if a system of beliefs leads to the loss of your rights and privileges, would you not argue against it?
If this were true then one would expect there to be a single denomination representing the majority of Christians. Knowing the Bible back to front won't turn a Baptist into a Methodist, or a Charismatic into a Catholic. And if an unbeliever starts quoting the bible there's always the quote about Satan knowing every verse to back up your personal/group interpretation.What good does getting angry back do unless you have a knowledge of the basis of their beliefs? Just like categorizing all gays as this way or that, you can't categorize all Christians to believe this way or that way (or at least that's what I took out of her post). If you're unbiassedly educated of someone's point of view, you can begin to understand where they might be coming from (not saying it's justified) and have a better attack/defense against it.
Or you could go super-christ on them and turn the proverbial other cheek (assuming that they aren't actually threatening your well-being).
You are making the assumption that to attack the belief is to attack the person though. What I am saying is that the people who stand against 'Christianity' are taking offense at the Christianity that is attacking their lives. They are attacking the belief system because that is what is used as the reason for the bigotry. No one has an issue with someone going to church, reading their bible or singing hymns. Most people felt Mother Teresa was a true saint. But again, if a system of beliefs leads to the loss of your rights and privileges, would you not argue against it?
I'm with you in being against Christian politics, doctrines not so much as long as they don't turn into politics outside of the church.If this were true then one would expect there to be a single denomination representing the majority of Christians. Knowing the Bible back to front won't turn a Baptist into a Methodist, or a Charismatic into a Catholic. And if an unbeliever starts quoting the bible there's always the quote about Satan knowing every verse to back up your personal/group interpretation.
And again, I do not dislike every christian on a personal basis: I do have issues with doctrines though. I do have issues with Christian politics.
I do have issues with Christian politics.
I know. I agree. But they don't only get the coverage, they get the law on their side. And that's why people get angry. People have their children taken away. Gays watch as the parents of deceased mates walk away and leave them with nothing because their co habitation is not protected by law (I've seen that one happen myself, and it was all legal). And of course illegally, people get beaten and even killed.I agree with you in the bold, but the thing is not all Christians or Christianity works that way. The hateful groups get the coverage, but there are Christian sects that have nothing against homosexuality. Then there are those that do have something against homosexuality but do nothing legally about it. Like someone said before, it's throwing all Christians under the bus. Let the bigots be bigots and preach all the hate that they want. The place it has to stop is, like you said, when the loss of your rights and privileges begins.
I know you do Wyst. I have no issue with you at all. You are a very respectful person. I like you. I respect your personal stand for your beliefs, even though I passionately disagree with your doctrine. If only your voice was the one that actually turned heads. But it isn't, and I believe that part of the reason is what the bible says when it is read from an inerrant, literal viewpoint. Which is why I stand against it.I'm a Christian and I have issues with Christian politics. The Christian right needs to stay the heck out of politics.
I have read the Bible cover to cover. I have studied theology as a layman. I do know what it says, and I am familiar with many of the arguments from scripture. But no amount of scripture quoted by a gay, lesbian or pagan will sway those who need to be swayed.I'm with you in being against Christian politics, doctrines not so much as long as they don't turn into politics outside of the church.
But if you don't take the time to at least grasp a basic understanding of their beliefs, where are you forming yours? It's like trying to say 1984 was a stupid and pointless book, when all you've heard is what crazy 1984 lovers are saying about it.
I agree, but it at least gives you an understanding of the religion and not just what the hatemongers are spewing.I have read the Bible cover to cover. I have studied theology as a layman. I do know what it says, and I am familiar with many of the arguments from scripture. But no amount of scripture quoted by a gay, lesbian or pagan will sway those who need to be swayed.
If you mean specifically the thread Ask a Christian, that's why I stayed out of that thread: it's about telling people what 00chris00 believes, and more generally what the participating christians believe. I respect that.My point is that there is a difference between arguing with a debater who welcomes debate and stepping into a public arena to argue with those who aren't there to argue.
True enough, I concede that knowledge is better than ignorance. I simply don't feel that such knowledge will sway the impassioned. I submit the speeches in Julius Caesar for Shakespearean evidence (which isn't evidence I know, but it works metaphorically).I agree, but it at least gives you an understanding of the religion and not just what the hatemongers are spewing.
I know you do Wyst. I have no issue with you at all. You are a very respectful person. I like you. I respect your personal stand for your beliefs, even though I passionately disagree with your doctrine. If only your voice was the one that actually turned heads. But it isn't, and I believe that part of the reason is what the bible says when it is read from an inerrant, literal viewpoint. Which is why I stand against it.
My favorite line from the Gospels is John 11:35: "Jesus wept."
Unfortunately his most powerful followers today shed few tears for anyone not in their pew.
If you mean specifically the thread Ask a Christian, that's why I stayed out of that thread: it's about telling people what 00chris00 believes, and more generally what the participating christians believe. I respect that.