Is Political Correctness a System of Taboos?

slant said:
Well the feminists you are referring to you are not actual feminists. I mean as long as when you are saying we should focus more on boys education you are not saying we should not put as much effort and support into educating women. There are still areas where men are leading and industries where when female enter those industries they are unfairly targeted, not given promotions, ridiculued, etc. Science, math, military the few big ones I can think of. The issue with men is more about male children who often have a hard time learning on the same level as girls. Reading level is a big one for boys.
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Maths and science are big ones for girls as a group.
 
Flavus Aquila said:
Maths and science are big ones for girls as a group.
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Judging on your use of the term "maths" as opposed to "math" I'm guessing that you are not from the US. That is going to cause discrepancies in our conversation as your cultural norms and circles will be different than mine.

I.E. It is NOT okay to call an Asian person Oriental in the US. However, in the UK it is a preferred term for Eastern Asians.
 
Jet said:
If something is a taboo, it is considered morally reprehensible to the overarching society. It is not discussed, it is not done, it is a big bad no no.

Political Correctness is not that extreme. It is more of a folkway than a taboo. Folkways are things that are frowned upon in "proper" society but that still may happen.

Again I will use my example. Sleeping with a dead person = taboo. Speaking ill of them = folkway.

Or maybe lets think of something that is more in line with PC.
It is not PC to insist that only boys can play football. It is taboo to beat girls who try and play football.


As a former educator and a mother of boys I can tell you that this is not a reality. Boys (especially minority boys) falling behind in primary education is a major issue that is impacting education reforms. But like @slant said, I don't think this is a PC issue.
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Would you say that it isn't taboo for a black person to use the word "nigger", but it is taboo for any white person to use it?
(I think it should either be taboo for everyone, or for no one... probably better if no one uses it). Is it PC for a white person to question this inconsistency?

I am not strictly against taboos bty, but I am against the over proliferation of them.
 
Flavus Aquila said:
Would you say that it isn't taboo for a black person to use the word "nigger", but it is taboo for any white person to use it?
(I think it should either be taboo for everyone, or for no one... probably better if no one uses it). Is it PC for a white person to question this inconsistency?

I am not strictly against taboos bty, but I am against the over proliferation of them.
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I wouldn't say use of the N-word is taboo, again that is too strong imo ... but I've an anthropology background so we probably won't agree on how we are personally identifying taboos.

In African American culture the N-word is acceptable, if questionable in many circles. White people are not members of that culture and as such it is unacceptable to use that term, especially considering its history.

I fail to see the inconsistency. One cultural taboo may be a cultural norm for another culture. We do not get to pick and choose what cultures we belong to, we are born to them.
 
Think of it this way @Flavus Aquila.

My mother can call me [insert cutesy nickname here], but if you do the same thing, especially after I tell you not to ... its not okay. In fact it makes you kind of a dick if you insist on calling me that even after I've repeatedly told you its not okay.
 
Jet said:
I wouldn't say use of the N-word is taboo, again that is too strong imo ... but I've an anthropology background so we probably won't agree on how we are personally identifying taboos.

In African American culture the N-word is acceptable, if questionable in many circles. White people are not members of that culture and as such it is unacceptable to use that term, especially considering its history.

I fail to see the inconsistency. One cultural taboo may be a cultural norm for another culture. We do not get to pick and choose what cultures we belong to, we are born to them.
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The notion that we are born into cultures, and cannot choose them is probably extremely non PC. Nevertheless it is probably true for most people, but I disagree that it is anything other than a form of personal comfort/familiarity-inertia that prevents people from choosing a different/better culture.

(Ie. I agree with your observation in practice, but disagree it is a valid principle).
 
Flavus Aquila said:
The notion that we are born into cultures, and cannot choose them is probably extremely non PC. Nevertheless it is probably true for most people, but I disagree that it is anything other than a form of personal comfort/familiarity-inertia that prevents people from choosing a different/better culture.

(Ie. I agree with your observation in practice, but disagree it is a valid principle).
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How can I as a white American woman ever be a member of Black culture? How can I ever be a member of Mongolian culture? How can I ever be a member of male culture?

I can't. I can appreciate those cultures but I can never be a part of them. Sure some things like regional cultures or religious ones can be entered or left ... but most cultures are based on what you were born into/live in.
 
ruji said:
This is like saying tangerines aren't oranges in response to whether lemons are delicious.
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Well, tangerines aren't oranges, same genus though. I believe lemons are also of the citrus genus....
 
Jet said:
Think of it this way @Flavus Aquila.

My mother can call me [insert cutesy nickname here], but if you do the same thing, especially after I tell you not to ... its not okay. In fact it makes you kind of a dick if you insist on calling me that even after I've repeatedly told you its not okay.
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Every iteration of "not okay", while tangentially related, is not actually directly relevant to the topic.

I think there are some hurdles present, which are misdirecting a relevant conversation:
1. The notion of political correctness is not a consistently defined, or used one.
2. The notion of taboo is being used in it's historical sense, excluding contemporary new application, as though it cannot be used in the present insofar as the present is different from the past.

There is apparently an article by Richard Dawkins on this very topic (or by Dawkins referring to an original work by another author)... I'll try and find the text to read, to see how he deals with the subject.
 
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Jet said:
How can I as a white American woman ever be a member of Black culture? How can I ever be a member of Mongolian culture? How can I ever be a member of male culture?

I can't. I can appreciate those cultures but I can never be a part of them. Sure some things like regional cultures or religious ones can be entered or left ... but most cultures are based on what you were born into/live in.
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When I used to travel to the US, I think I absorbed some of the culture, so that I feel at home both here and there. The same goes for a couple of Asian cultures (but to a lesser extent).
 
Jet said:
Well, tangerines aren't oranges, same genus though. I believe lemons are also of the citrus genus....
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Here is my point: everything is different, so pointing that out is pointless. it would have been more useful to explain why the difference is matters towards any point he's making. And the 'whether lemons are delicious' part highlights how what he said isnt related to what i said.
 
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Flavus Aquila said:
When I used to travel to the US, I think I absorbed some of the culture, so that I feel at home both here and there.
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The US is unique in that it is a cultural casserole, built on the premise of a mixture of cultures. One can become American without having originally been born an American. That is not a universal thing. For all that people bitch about our immigration policy (and I know I did my fair share when I was navigating it for ex), other countries are far less welcoming.

Could you ever belong to the Amish culture?
 
ruji said:
Here is my point: everything is different, so pointing that out is pointless. it would have been more useful to explain why the difference is matters towards any point he's making. And the 'whether lemons are delicious' part highlights how what he said isnt related to what i said.
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Damnit...now I want a citrus meringue pie.
 
ruji said:
This is like saying tangerines aren't oranges in response to whether lemons are delicious.
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No. PC is not the same thing as manners, because manners (among other things) facilitate conversation. PC shuts down conversation, if the topic is anything other than PC. Manners, on the other hand especially facilitate conversation with impolite (no manners) participants.
 
Flavus Aquila said:
No. PC is not the same thing as manners, because manners (among other things) facilitate conversation. PC shuts down conversation, if the topic is anything other than PC. Manners, on the other hand especially facilitate conversation with impolite (no manners) participants.
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How do you define PC?
 
Jet said:
The US is unique in that it is a cultural casserole, built on the premise of a mixture of cultures. One can become American without having originally been born an American. That is not a universal thing. For all that people bitch about our immigration policy (and I know I did my fair share when I was navigating it for ex), other countries are far less welcoming.

Could you ever belong to the Amish culture?
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Yeah your culture is very welcoming of outsiders like me... just until I fit in enough to be put into a domestic category, and get drawn into a complex web of historical hate and recriminations.

(Sorry... I loved visiting, and could visit perpetually, but I wouldn't want to me identified as local; I don't want that stress. I don't know if Trump means the same thing, but I would want to move to the US, if y'all could look forward to a common goal, instead of backwards at past problems).
 
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