Is this too Real? Netal-Milo: An Upcoming Game System

[IndigoSensor]

I understand this is a bit of a long opening post, but it is worth reading. I think this is very good food-for-thought for everyone.

At work tonight, one of the RA's in the building brought this to my attention:

[YOUTUBE]EW6KXH5A5i4[/YOUTUBE]


It is a new upcoming game for a new system called Project Natal (pronounced: Na-tal, not Nae-tel), and this is one of the "games" for it. When I started watching this, I was astounded at how real this is. To be honest, it actually sort of scared me. This could be too real, and the beginning of the nondistinction between artifical life, and real life. I said outloud to me and 3 others who were watching (One ISTJ, other two types are unknown), "I couldn't ever play this game, it just doesn't sit right with me at all". They all responded, "Really? I would, it would be cool! I would so mess with it and say 'you know you are just ones and zeros and you don't exsist right?' it would be hilarious". That honestly upset me.

Call me weak, but I can't convince my brain that this isn't a real 'person'. I wouldn't be able to say things like that to it. Not to mention, it is likely very unaware that it is just numbers and electrons. Because of that, I feel horribly sad for it. Just the prospect of interacting with it would be upsetting for me. Also, because I would not be able to see this as anything other then a normal person, I wouldn't be able to approach them like they were anything different. This also would plant the idea in my head that I 'bought" this person. All of this is just disturbing and depressing to me, and it doesn't sit right with me at all. I feel like I am being irrational for feeling this way, but I truly can not help it.

Another point I realised, is that this a slippery slope on two accounts. One, this is where the line between human/artifical begins. It could start to raise alot of questions to where the line truly is. Artifical or not, this thing appears to have real emotions to me. The other issue is that this could become a dangerous haven to extreme recluses. I could see alot of people forming "meaningful friendships" with this electronic being. While this isn't inheriently a bad thing, I can see this becoming much in the way like people getting addicted to world of warcraft. Only in this case, there is not other human being on the other end. I see this becoming psycologically dangerous.

Call me being cynical, weak, overly emotionally responsive, or whatever, but this all just sends up red flags everywhere, and for lack of a better word, it makes me feel depressed in a way, and scared. I understand that this is an amazing technolgical advancement, and is certianly going to pave the way to incredible inventions and tools to better socieity. However, there is just something about it that really does not sit right with me in a strong way.

What is everyones thoughts on this? Discuss. (forgive me for being any bit unclear with my thoughts, it is late and my mental facillites are not all the way on).

 

[Orion]

Call me weak, but I can't convince my brain that this isn't a real 'person'. I wouldn't be able to say things like that to it. Not to mention, it is likely very unaware that it is just numbers and electrons. Because of that, I feel horribly sad for it. Just the prospect of interacting with it would be upsetting for me. Also, because I would not be able to see this as anything other then a normal person, I wouldn't be able to approach them like they were anything different. This also would plant the idea in my head that I 'bought" this person. All of this is just disturbing and depressing to me, and it doesn't sit right with me at all. I feel like I am being irrational for feeling this way, but I truly can not help it.

It's not weak, I see exactly what you mean. You would act towards this game as you would in real life because it's offers a reflection of your own behaviour. You would want to act accordingly because, in a way, it offers you an opportunity to exercise those muscles, if you know what I mean. It's not so much that you think it's real but because it personifies what you feel should be the right way to act in real life. It's self reflection, in that sense.

Another point I realised, is that this a slippery slope on two accounts. One, this is where the line between human/artifical begins. It could start to raise alot of questions to where the line truly is. Artifical or not, this thing appears to have real emotions to me. The other issue is that this could become a dangerous haven to extreme recluses. I could see alot of people forming "meaningful friendships" with this electronic being. While this isn't inheriently a bad thing, I can see this becoming much in the way like people getting addicted to world of warcraft. Only in this case, there is not other human being on the other end. I see this becoming psycologically dangerous.

I agree. It's a very, very slow slide down. The long term social and psychological effects won't addressed until it's too late. We can't really say, "this is bad, let's stop it now" until we're actually right in the middle of the problem. We already have the internet, online games, DVDs, digital downloads etc. all slowly negating the need for physical reality.

Call me being cynical, weak, overly emotionally responsive, or whatever, but this all just sends up red flags everywhere, and for lack of a better word, it makes me feel depressed in a way, and scared. I understand that this is an amazing technolgical advancement, and is certianly going to pave the way to incredible inventions and tools to better socieity. However, there is just something about it that really does not sit right with me in a strong way.

Are you sure about that? To better society? Does technology better society or does it make life easier? This, in my opinion, is the problem. What is the point of this "Natal" thing? Why do we need it? What's the purpose? I see that man's face, the guy who's presenting it and I see nothing but near sighted ignorance. He has an insatiable drive to offer this new and exciting technology for nothing but capitalistic gains. He just see's the here and now and the immediate gains of pushing the market. It kind of makes me angry. He thinks he's doing such a great thing. Yes it's impressive and I'd probably have a go but there is definitely something about it that makes me feel uneasy. I can't quite articulate it in any more informed or meaningful way than that but I certainly wouldn't buy it for my kids if I had any.

 

[WhiteWolf]

I'm very curious if it is actually as good as it is shown and described. As in voice recognition and conversations.
I don't think it is advanced as it looks to be.
I think its just a program that mimics human behaviour and language in a very advanced way. But it doesn't have a consciousness, it doesn't "think" nor has mind. so I wouldn't call it a person.

As for the line between human/artificial beings, don't worry, we are still very far away from making an AI with the capabilities that humans have. As in having a mind, consciousness etc.

I think Peter Molyneux just wants to make games with which you can have an emotional attachment, I wouldn't call this a bad thing per se.

 

[vSv]

That's awesome!

I just wished I could have seen a non-prepared person use this system instead to see how it "really" works.
If it works as good as it did in the demo though I can't wait to see more games.

 

[transcendentalethos]

I swear watching this is like some surrealistic nightmare that was the precursor to some dystopian, Huxley-esque, cyberpunk, novel. Maybe I'm paranoid from such novels and movies, but there really seems to be something threatening about this. And what's even more terrifying is when this concept becomes archaic; then what? I hope I never live to see the day. We've already seen how detrimental the typical MMORPG can be, which I've personally experienced. These are some gigantic, terrifying leaps in technology. Gods help us all.

Lo, men have become the tools of their tools.

 

[Sithious]

Interesting, that girl had nice tits.

About the game though, this is Peter Never delivers on his promises molyneux we're talking about. I'll promise you it will never live up to it's promise, besides that looked really boring, would probably be fun to call him a dickface for 5 minutes, then it would wear off, although limitations would not make it any fun either way so.

meh

 

[arbygil]

I think it really depends on who uses the technology. This reminds me in a way of the "real dolls" or really authentic looking infants that look too real. In the wrong person's hands, the person will substitute reality for this artificial world and they won't be able to distinguish between the two without professional help.

You already have WoW addicts. You have people who want to interact with virtual worlds more than real ones. Imagine if the characters missed you on a daily basis? Imagine if they could die if you weren't there to visit with them? Imagine if they got mad at you for not visiting with them? In such a scenario, people *would not leave their homes* for fear of missing out with their virtual friend.

And that is the real danger/sadness.

The only folks who would connect with these games are those who would be sucked into that world without end.

Kind of reminds me of the series "Otherland" by Tad Williams. Has a lot of similar themes.

 

[DefectiveCreative]

Seen it, looks interesting but like others have said Molyneux never delivers fully on his promises.

As for people becoming obsessively attached to it, stuff like that is hardly anything new, there are already people in the world who marry trees and cars and the like for example.

Point being: you can't hold back the progress of systems that the vast majority of people will use safely and smartly because a few lonely and mentally troubled individuals can't tell the difference between fantasy and reality.

 

[Satya]

What is everyones thoughts on this? Discuss. (forgive me for being any bit unclear with my thoughts, it is late and my mental facillites are not all the way on).

I see this as an amazing potential tool. What we choose to do with it is what will determine whether the consequences are positive or negative.