ISTP infidelity on INFJ spouse...HELP!

Although I am a normally skeptical person I missed all the signs. She got a new hairstyle, baught new lingerie, did all that kind of stuff. Got way more sexually interested with me. Our best month ever was when this was going on.

A bit more about the history: About a month before this began, I wrote and email to her and included it to her family. She seemed very depressed and had been for years but resisted medication or counseling and just never talked, about anything meaningful. So I wrote this email kind of saying, basically, "this needs to stop...I love you and I want you to be happy. Please take some steps to figure out what is going on: see a doctor, a counselor, maybe it's hormones or blood sugar. If it's me, I will fix it or leave. Please, please, take hold of yourself and wake up to life. I miss the happy old you." It was longer and more detailed. I thought I was including other people who cared so they could help too.

Well, now I know this is the WORST POSSIBLE thing that one can do to an ISTP, talk about their private issues with others. She was very embarrassed, and never did anything I suggested. But she started working out more, got her hair done, started dolling it up, having sex with me a lot, and I was like, "cool." But (I guess my iNtuition) began to tell me something was up. I brought it up to her and she said I was a crazy maker and to turn my brain off and stop thinking she is doing what my clients were doing. I felt like I was crazy. Then one day, I sent her a text saying, I KNOW WHAT YOU DID AND YOU NEED TO COME CLEAN, TODAY." But I didn't know anything at all. That day she confessed.

She says she wants to be with me, she just feels overwhelmed with 3 kids, and admits she doesn't ever really trust her feelings anyway so doesn't share them. The other night (it's been about 5 weeks since this came out) she said she was still dealing with some of the things she felt before this began. She fantasizes about living in a studio apartment and traveling the world. I think the whole mom/family thing is not easy for her. With a 6,4, and 2 year old, it's tough. I was working a second job and expected her to always have my clothes ready and shit like that. I figured I work about 60 hrs a week and she only works 30. but she felt I was treating her like a maid or something.

So she says she loves me and we have had some sweet experiences the last few weeks. But I know she is done talking about all this, but I am always in fear that maybe she just doesn't love me. She has an appt with a counselor on Monday and she will start first alone, then we will both go together.

I know she is in pain as well. Sometimes, though, I think she is more embarrassed than remorseful, but I am never sure what she feels. She doesn't express and I try to figure it out, which is often me assuming I know what she is up to.
 
Shai Gar said:
I would have dumped him immediately after he didn't perform those actions.
The onus is on the one in the wrong to rectify matters.
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You're absolutely right and that's why I dumped him.

After 3 months of kissing my ass, I felt safer to give it another try. He's trying harder to be more connected to both my feelings and his own... it is not something that comes easy to him but he understands now what is at stake if he slides.

In this respect, being an INFJ is good as we are actually happy with our own company for the most part.

I want to keep my life simple and pleasant for myself and my children, forgivness is hard to do for me, but each day I am trying in that department while he is trying in his own.
 
Ria, I also want to say thank. I read your post a few days ago and that was part of why I registered on these forums. You sharing what you have been through is helpful and I just wanted to thank you for your posts here and for your other threads I have found so helpful.
 
Ria said:
You're absolutely right and that's why I dumped him.

After 3 months of kissing my ass, I felt safer to give it another try. He's trying harder to be more connected to both my feelings and his own... it is not something that comes easy to him but he understands now what is at stake if he slides.

In this respect, being an INFJ is good as we are actually happy with our own company for the most part.

I want to keep my life simple and pleasant for myself and my children, forgivness is hard to do for me, but each day I am trying in that department while he is trying in his own.
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No. Absolutely not on.

He's proven that he can't be trusted, and he is NOT the only man on the planet.
You should do yourself a favour and find someone who Can be trusted.
 
1. I have been showing her as much love as I can, like when we were dating, but I'm not sure if that is such a good thing. I have been pretty easy on her for the most part, but wonder if I should (force myself) to be more distant and aloof. Kind of the reverse psychology idea. If I am head over heels, will that make her annoyed and not interested in me?
I don't know, it really depends on how she feels about you. Feelings of other people, for me, are sometimes uncomfortable. I need someone walk me through how they are feeling and their expectations of what I should do with this knowledge. Sometimes when people tell me what they feel I get overwhelmed because I feel like I need to solve their feelings, and yet I understand there is nothing I can do about it. You have to go out of your way with a person who thinks like me to explain yourself but be brief and too the point. If you go on too long and circle around your ideas it can be annoying. Being distant and aloof when you are not naturally distant and aloof, and you have not talked to her about whether or not she'd like that better is a bad idea. She'll pick up on this and wonder what is going on. It could anger her, upset her, or make her feel like you're avoiding a confrontation. Talk to her.

2. If she feels still she is not all that "in" love with me, how do I foster that? We've been having sex like crazy and I know she enjoys that, but how can I detach some and/or make her crave being with me like I do her? Or will she just never be like that?
I don't know. I've had a hard time understanding what 'in love' is. But if I care about a person, I show it by time and effort and being there for them. I do things for them, I'm there for them. I try the best I can. She will never be the most verbally affectionate person, in fact, it may be hard for her to express her feelings. But as long as she is there with you she cares about you, and as long as you can understand that and she doesn't have a problem with it, everything is good. If she has a problem with 'not being in love' and wants to fix it, encourage her to do so, elsewise it's just that she is concerned about you.

3. I am still checking her phone and email, which she despises. I know ISTPs need space, but she doesn't understand my need to check on those things. Haven't found anything concerning, so it actually helps me feel more secure knowing who she is talking to. I feel compelled to do that, but know it may not help things because she sees it as controlling her.

Woah dude. Get off her grill. If you don't trust her, express that, but at some point you're going to need to allow the trust to grow again. Looking into her phone and email is an invasion of her personal space. Couples who are going through rough times need to resolve their issues and then put the boundaries up again, this time trusting that the other person will not do what they did in the past. By constantly checking up on her, it makes her feel sufficated- it would make anyone feel sufficated, especially if that's something that is important to them. Find a way to make the relationship strong enough so you trust her enough not to check up on her, or else things are not going to work.

4. She says this guy is gone from her mind (it only lasted a month) and that she only thinks of him when I bring it up. She says she wants us to move forward, and I do too, but daily I have this little storm cloud come over me with fear and darkness. She says I can call her when I am feeling down, but I am afraid to. I am afraid she will just be like, "Get over it already!"

Express this. You need to tell her. ISTPs are natural problem solvers- we live to fix problems. If there is a problem that we are unaware of in the relationship and it is brought up much too late, it bothers us that we didn't know about it. Communication is important, and we need to know what you are feeling so we can help solve it. If she is too harsh with your feelings (which I'm assuming she has been in the past elsewise I don't know where you developed this fear, or if it's just a general fear you'd have with everyone) explain this to her in a gentle, caring manner. Be calm, be cool. If she senses you are angry or lashing at her in upsetness she will withdraw or attack you back. If you simply express how important it is to you and the relationship and how it will improve things, she'll want to improve on it. That's what us ISTPs do.

5. We are trying to do some more fun thing together. She needs quality time and we are being more active and going out more. What ideas do you have about how I can light her fire?
Well, you know her better than I do. The kind of activities I like to do are generally active, outdoorsy, quiet activities. Hiking, camping, going up to the mountains, boatings. Things that cost time and money. You should measure up what she likes to do, what time you both have spare and the funds you have and draw up a plan. Present it to her and ask her what she thinks about it, and ask her if she has any ideas or what she would like to do. The important thing here is that it is a two person decision and nobody is surprised where they have no choice but to go through with it. You guys have been having hard times, so you need to be careful about how you present things so as not to add any more stress to the relationship.



Hope that helps.
 
Shai Gar said:
No. Absolutely not on.

He's proven that he can't be trusted, and he is NOT the only man on the planet.
You should do yourself a favour and find someone who Can be trusted.
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Shai, if he lets me down again, then I will call it off forever. I guess I'm making a choice that you probably don't think is wise. Thanks for your comments,

if things don't go well, I'll let you know that you were right all along.

we will see how it goes...
 
Slant, you are awesome. You are also one of the ISTPs I have seen on here and I am honored to have such a thoughful response from you. As I have read your other posts, I have thought the missez really is like you a lot and I value your insights. Thank you. That is a huge validation for me on here as a newbie.
 
vegaSagev said:
Ria, I also want to say thank. I read your post a few days ago and that was part of why I registered on these forums. You sharing what you have been through is helpful and I just wanted to thank you for your posts here and for your other threads I have found so helpful.
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Being open is a new thing for me, I'm glad I came to this forum to do exactly that... try something new.

Glad I could offer some help to others, that's why I did this.

I hope it all goes well for both of us! :hug:
 
vegaSagev said:
Slant, you are awesome. You are also one of the ISTPs I have seen on here and I am honored to have such a thoughful response from you. As I have read your other posts, I have thought the missez really is like you a lot and I value your insights. Thank you. That is a huge validation for me on here as a newbie.
Click to expand...

Sure thing, It's hard to make an INFJ/ISTP relationship work. Although you to a certain extent think of the same things, the way you get to them is different. It takes a lot of work, but it's most likely worth it if you end up learning from each other.
 
Everyone on here has given sound, extremely reasonable advice. I don't have much to add, but I do have one comment that you might take or leave, depending: When your wife lost all that weight, did you suddenly start paying her a lot of attention? Some women might feel that the only reason why you're paying them attention now is because you prefer their new body - but the truth is, they're the same person they always were; just skinnier.

In other words - does she feel as if your love is conditional, based on her appearance or based on what she does/doesn't do? If so, that can be a *lot* of pressure on her.
 
Unfortunately, I don't trust myself (i.e., my feelings) enough to give any advice that would be worthwhile. But, I do feel bad for you and I'm sorry for your pain. I wish you the best. It can't be easy.
 
I've been there so when I got home and read this it stirred up all kinds of feelings. But if she is willing to make it work and you are, then you are definitly headed in the right direction. I hope everything goes well for you. I dont have any good advice because I wasnt as lucky to be in a situation like you where the other party wanted to make it work. Count your blessings!
 
Slant already explained how I understand my ISTP boyfriend better than I understand or could explain. (What motivates Slant post on here? It is a mystery to me, but I'm glad she does!!)

Maybe a few more things. My boyfriend is known among his friends for being very honest (at least to the extent he knows about his feelings). It would sound ridiculous to say ISTPs are honest, considering what your girlfriend did, but I'm thinking at least if they articulate something, it's believable. Well, you probably know better than I do. I think feelings confuse them and articulated dishonesty makes things even more overwhelmingly confusing to them. If this seems accurate about your wife, maybe it would help you trust what she says now.

Also, my bf can be a little impulsive, outgoing, and excited by socializing with acquaintances, which seem like qualities that in some people could set the stage for a shallow fling. I don't mean that I think ISTPs are hopelessly prone to that, though.
 
It is because I love you INFJs, that and the fact that ISTPs are never around long enough to create and maintain their own forum....

also, thanks myst.
 
slant said:
1. I have been showing her as much love as I can, like when we were dating, but I'm not sure if that is such a good thing. I have been pretty easy on her for the most part, but wonder if I should (force myself) to be more distant and aloof. Kind of the reverse psychology idea. If I am head over heels, will that make her annoyed and not interested in me?
I don't know, it really depends on how she feels about you. Feelings of other people, for me, are sometimes uncomfortable. I need someone walk me through how they are feeling and their expectations of what I should do with this knowledge. Sometimes when people tell me what they feel I get overwhelmed because I feel like I need to solve their feelings, and yet I understand there is nothing I can do about it. You have to go out of your way with a person who thinks like me to explain yourself but be brief and too the point. If you go on too long and circle around your ideas it can be annoying. Being distant and aloof when you are not naturally distant and aloof, and you have not talked to her about whether or not she'd like that better is a bad idea. She'll pick up on this and wonder what is going on. It could anger her, upset her, or make her feel like you're avoiding a confrontation. Talk to her.

2. If she feels still she is not all that "in" love with me, how do I foster that? We've been having sex like crazy and I know she enjoys that, but how can I detach some and/or make her crave being with me like I do her? Or will she just never be like that?
I don't know. I've had a hard time understanding what 'in love' is. But if I care about a person, I show it by time and effort and being there for them. I do things for them, I'm there for them. I try the best I can. She will never be the most verbally affectionate person, in fact, it may be hard for her to express her feelings. But as long as she is there with you she cares about you, and as long as you can understand that and she doesn't have a problem with it, everything is good. If she has a problem with 'not being in love' and wants to fix it, encourage her to do so, elsewise it's just that she is concerned about you.

3. I am still checking her phone and email, which she despises. I know ISTPs need space, but she doesn't understand my need to check on those things. Haven't found anything concerning, so it actually helps me feel more secure knowing who she is talking to. I feel compelled to do that, but know it may not help things because she sees it as controlling her.

Woah dude. Get off her grill. If you don't trust her, express that, but at some point you're going to need to allow the trust to grow again. Looking into her phone and email is an invasion of her personal space. Couples who are going through rough times need to resolve their issues and then put the boundaries up again, this time trusting that the other person will not do what they did in the past. By constantly checking up on her, it makes her feel sufficated- it would make anyone feel sufficated, especially if that's something that is important to them. Find a way to make the relationship strong enough so you trust her enough not to check up on her, or else things are not going to work.

4. She says this guy is gone from her mind (it only lasted a month) and that she only thinks of him when I bring it up. She says she wants us to move forward, and I do too, but daily I have this little storm cloud come over me with fear and darkness. She says I can call her when I am feeling down, but I am afraid to. I am afraid she will just be like, "Get over it already!"

Express this. You need to tell her. ISTPs are natural problem solvers- we live to fix problems. If there is a problem that we are unaware of in the relationship and it is brought up much too late, it bothers us that we didn't know about it. Communication is important, and we need to know what you are feeling so we can help solve it. If she is too harsh with your feelings (which I'm assuming she has been in the past elsewise I don't know where you developed this fear, or if it's just a general fear you'd have with everyone) explain this to her in a gentle, caring manner. Be calm, be cool. If she senses you are angry or lashing at her in upsetness she will withdraw or attack you back. If you simply express how important it is to you and the relationship and how it will improve things, she'll want to improve on it. That's what us ISTPs do.

5. We are trying to do some more fun thing together. She needs quality time and we are being more active and going out more. What ideas do you have about how I can light her fire?
Well, you know her better than I do. The kind of activities I like to do are generally active, outdoorsy, quiet activities. Hiking, camping, going up to the mountains, boatings. Things that cost time and money. You should measure up what she likes to do, what time you both have spare and the funds you have and draw up a plan. Present it to her and ask her what she thinks about it, and ask her if she has any ideas or what she would like to do. The important thing here is that it is a two person decision and nobody is surprised where they have no choice but to go through with it. You guys have been having hard times, so you need to be careful about how you present things so as not to add any more stress to the relationship.


Hope that helps.
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Bloody brilliant Slant! :m178:
 
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vegaSagev said:
Thanks for the honesty Tamagochi...hurts a little but I believe you. Pretty sure I'm INFJ but maybe not. Yeah, I cannot force her to love me. That's my biggest fear is not what she does or doesn't do but that she doesn't love me. Some tell me, duh, dude, how could she love you and do this?
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It was not of my intention to hurt you but just to bring some things into attention. I might have been a bit tactless.

The deeper point I have tried to express is that you're also partly responsible for the affair and should not lay all the blame on her. Regardless of type people want to have good feelings, to feel love. If she has not received it from you then naturally she could have been drawn to someone else to compensate. I think she's feeling guilty and torn inside because of that and it would be better if you just comforted her now rather than attacked.
 
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Sex does not equate... love, to an ISTP. It is more of a physical sensation. It would be over, if the ISTP shared their secret side of "thought" with another person.

Yes, infidenlity looks to be a complete violation of the INFJ's code of ethic's with "Insincerity, Betrayal, or Lack of Integrity." But, the ISTP may not have realized this at all.... because sex has nothing to do with feelings to them, it is more of an act.

The ISTP may have thought in line with their own way of thinking. And she was not insincere: she did end it and was willing to show it with action. She was not in Betrayal: she did not share things of her husband's secret thoughts. Lastly, she did not show a lack of Integrity: she did admit exactly what she did.

The ISTP's form of love would be in "sharing their secret self"...thoughts, wishes and aspirations.

Perhaps, she was "only responding" to her own form of ISTP stressors: Constaint, Lack of Impact and Boredom. Which had nothing to do with the love of her husband, only the fact that some risk-taking actions cured her stressors.

This may sound crazy to other INFJ's. But it is the truth... as I am myself an INFJ whom is married to an ISTP male for around 17 years now. And I could completely forgive an affair because it is not my husbands definition of love. Now, it would be completely different if he had shared his "secret self" with another woman. Because that is the ISTP's form of love and that would cross the line for both of us.

Hope this may help in some way.
 
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