It's the father's choice!

Shai Gar said:
You're awesome. But you don't take if far enough. I think that we should execute 70% of the population, 50% from any nation that pollutes more than the planet can take, and 75% from any nation that's first world, and pollutes more than the planet can take, 90% from any over populated nation.
Click to expand...

So you are volunteering?
 
Bored Now said:
Maybe they should make birth control for dudes to stop sperm production.
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The problem with male birth control is one of numbers. IIRC the average male produces somewhere in the number of 200 million sperm cells a day, so any birth control method would have to prevent the production of (or otherwise render infertile) all those individual cells every single day, to be effective it couldn't really afford to miss a single one.

Compare that to female birth control which only has to prevent the production of (or otherwise render infertile) one single cell (the egg) once a month.

That doesn't mean it can't be done, in fact I'm pretty sure there's a male birth control pill in the works right now, they're just looking for a producer/distributor, but it does explain why it's taken so long for one to be produced and arguably why any male birth control may have a greater range of side effects than the female method (IIRC the male pill that's in the works had to be mixed with testosterone, to off-set the reduction of that hormone that the pill on its own caused).
 
slant:

I considered your premise and here is what I came up with:

she: does not want
he: does not want
  • she may choose to abort with each parent 50% responsible for costs
  • she may choose to put up for adoption with each parent equally sharing costs and benefits (if any)
  • she may choose to legally abandon
  • each parent 50% responsible for medical costs during term and for delivery

she: wants
he: does not want
  • he may choose to pay support
  • he may choose to end any legal relationship with the child and hence not pay support
  • in either case each parent 50% responsible for medical costs during term and for delivery

she: does not want
he: wants
  • if she agrees to carry the child to term he assumes custody when the child is born
  • he may choose to put up for adoption with each parent equally sharing costs and benefits (if any)
  • he may choose to legally abandon
  • she may choose to pay support
  • she may choose to end any legal relationship with the child and hence not pay support
  • each parent 50% responsible for medical costs during term and for delivery

she: wants
he: wants
  • each has equal custody and equal financial responsibility in all aspects

That all said, these imagined scenarios are based on a premise which I consider invalid, namely, as it regards the act of sex:

  • consent can be made after the sexual act itself.

I think and feel that the act of consenting to engage in sex with another is consent to accept the consequences of such a choice, regardless whether those consequences would later be judged blessing or curse.

---

My answers above do not reflect my values. I value mutual consent in sex as part of Natural Family Planning, and do not value birth control; I value the right to life of unborn children in all cases, without exception, and for my own person (and my own person only), I consider the pursuit of sexual pleasure exclusive of the consequences of conception to be immoral.


Namaste,
Ian
 
I am a father. So your getting Dads point of view here. Sex is serious business. You can create a life. A life you are personally responsible for. From my own personal experience and I fucked up here so call me a hypocrite. I wish I would have been more patient with myself and never had sex until I was married. Sure it feels good. And its fun. But then there is the umm I am pregnant. Let me tell ya until your standing there holding the pregnancy test in your hand you don't know how low your stomach can sink. If you were not planning on having a kid now you have nine months to get your shit together. And if you don't know the person you knocked up you may be in for more trouble than you bargained for. That one night hook up could cost you 18 years of pain and bullshit. Not to mention emotionally damaging an innocent kid. That was the product of your one night stand. Or six month hook up. I know people get divorced. And kids get screwed up that way too. Bottom line for me is either wait for sex or use adequate protection. Save yourself the hassle pain and expense of being a part time Dad. I did not want to be a part time Dad so I spent the money and got 50% custody so I could be a father in my kids life. Ya gotta be there if you wanna be called Dad...

So as far as I can tell the best solution is to never get pregnant. Never put yourself in that position to have to decide. I know it was not given as an option. But to me it is the best possible solution...
 
I've advocated a similar policy, however, I believe it technically already exist unofficially i.e. if the father seems disinterested in the child rearing, she ought to be able to tell from that character and have an abortion based upon that. You may be onto something since signing or not signing the birth certificate is a little late, though he technically needn't do anything more than inform her or seem irresponsible, for an extra lair of preparation and protection from court ordered DNA test results, maybe the father should still give her a legal notice ensuring that the mother is aware of his disagreement ahead of time.
 
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The Decemberists -
 
aeon said:
slant:

I considered your premise and here is what I came up with:

she: does not want
he: does not want
  • she may choose to abort with each parent 50% responsible for costs
  • she may choose to put up for adoption with each parent equally sharing costs and benefits (if any)
  • she may choose to legally abandon
  • each parent 50% responsible for medical costs during term and for delivery

she: wants
he: does not want
  • he may choose to pay support
  • he may choose to end any legal relationship with the child and hence not pay support
  • in either case each parent 50% responsible for medical costs during term and for delivery

she: does not want
he: wants
  • if she agrees to carry the child to term he assumes custody when the child is born
  • he may choose to put up for adoption with each parent equally sharing costs and benefits (if any)
  • he may choose to legally abandon
  • she may choose to pay support
  • she may choose to end any legal relationship with the child and hence not pay support
  • each parent 50% responsible for medical costs during term and for delivery

she: wants
he: wants
  • each has equal custody and equal financial responsibility in all aspects

That all said, these imagined scenarios are based on a premise which I consider invalid, namely, as it regards the act of sex:

  • consent can be made after the sexual act itself.

I think and feel that the act of consenting to engage in sex with another is consent to accept the consequences of such a choice, regardless whether those consequences would later be judged blessing or curse.

---

My answers above do not reflect my values. I value mutual consent in sex as part of Natural Family Planning, and do not value birth control; I value the right to life of unborn children in all cases, without exception, and for my own person (and my own person only), I consider the pursuit of sexual pleasure exclusive of the consequences of conception to be immoral.


Namaste,
Ian
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To this, I have to say, Congrats.

This is what I was asking for all along.

And I actually like the sound of this plan.

Everyone, discuss this plan.
 
Shai Gar said:
You're awesome. But you don't take if far enough. I think that we should execute 70% of the population, 50% from any nation that pollutes more than the planet can take, and 75% from any nation that's first world, and pollutes more than the planet can take, 90% from any over populated nation.
Click to expand...

Interesting. Are you going to start by executing the criminals, the mentally ill, the gypsies, the homosexuals, the Jews, the Poles, the Ukrainians, the elderly, and basically keep the populace that conforms to your ideals and kill those that don't? After all, if you're going to be running a mass genocide, technically you still have to decide on some arbitrary criteria on who gets to live and who gets to die in your target polluting country...

All snarking aside, I'd genuinely like to know how you'd decide on this.
 
TheDaringHatTrick said:
Interesting. Are you going to start by executing the criminals, the mentally ill, the gypsies, the homosexuals, the Jews, the Poles, the Ukrainians, the elderly, and basically keep the populace that conforms to your ideals and kill those that don't? After all, if you're going to be running a mass genocide, technically you still have to decide on some arbitrary criteria on who gets to live and who gets to die in your target polluting country...

All snarking aside, I'd genuinely like to know how you'd decide on this.
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No, just poison the water supplies.
It's random. No discrimination <3
 
The Jester said:
No, just poison the water supplies.
It's random. No discrimination <3
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Hmm! Good plan!

Y'know, all that thinking must've made you thirsty. Here, Jester, have a glass of water.

<3
 
The mother could die in the process of childbirth, and thus abortion is a viable option. If they are underage, it is also a viable option. Although not particularly fair, perhaps I am unbiased because of my lack of a father figure, but in my opinion, I think that the father should not be given any say in the matter. I don't think the father should have to pay for child support if he is underage though, but perhaps his parents.
 
The Jester said:
That's why I only drink bottled water.
I know that there'll be a day when someone does something like this, and I will survive.
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Tsk, tsk. All those plastic bottles clogging up the landfills... no respect for the environment. That certainly doesn't ensure your survival in Shai's "stop polluting" empire.
 
The weak part about water contamination is that it kills of intelligent beings aswell as retarded ones. If we want to eradicate 80% of the worlds population it is crucial we kill off the unintelligent, the ignorant and the ones with a bad genetic pool.

We don't want a fresh start when the percieved fresh population is a bunch of unintelligent ass lickers with 3 thumbs.
 
Sithious said:
The weak part about water contamination is that it kills of intelligent beings aswell as retarded ones. If we want to eradicate 80% of the worlds population it is crucial we kill off the unintelligent, the ignorant and the ones with a bad genetic pool.

We don't want to a fresh start when the percieved fresh population is a bunch of unintelligent ass lickers with 3 thumbs.
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Or maybe you'd want to keep the unintelligent ones. Technically, an unthinking populace is much easier to manipulate... and the less likely to have anyone succeed in usurping your power.
 
TheDaringHatTrick said:
Or maybe you'd want to keep the unintelligent ones. Technically, an unthinking populace is much easier to manipulate... and the less likely to have anyone succeed in usurping your power.
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That is true ofc :p

But my goal isn't to control a bunch of mindless rats, but to cleanse the earth of it's fitlth, then rebuild it with the brightest minds on the planet.

The remaining population will worship me for my accomplishments, and my name shall remain in the history books till the universe is nothing, but a cold dead pit of emptiness.
 
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