Jordan Peterson

slant said:
I don't know he seems really religious to me. If you weren't religious you wouldn't even think in those terms. I never quote the Bible or talk about what Jesus said, you know why? Because I don't have any of that knowledge because I'm not religious!
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So if I think Confucianism is really insightful and interesting and I've researched it and quote from it, that makes me a Confucian?

Not very logical, slanty, not very logical.
 
Ren said:
So if I think Confucianism is really insightful and interesting and I've researched it and quote from it, that makes me a Confucian?
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I guess that depends on your definition of things. For me something passes into the realm of religion when it cannot be rationally defended but it is believed in by the person in question.
 
Reason said:
I guess that depends on your definition of things. For me something passes into the realm of religion when it cannot be rationally defended but it is believed in by the person in question.
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Sure. What does JP literally (not metaphorically) believe that cannot be rationally defended? Honest question, I'm curious.
 
Ren said:
Sure. What does JP literally (not metaphorically) believe that cannot be rationally defended? Honest question, I'm curious.
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I haven't really thought that through completely but I suppose it would be the belief that the bible (among other things) can be distilled down into these sort of metaphorical life lessons. I mean the arguments that he makes for these things are sound but at the end of the day it is just one man's interpretation.

Probably not a great answer, i'd have to sit with that and think for a while to have a clearer reply.
 
Reason said:
I haven't really thought that through completely but I suppose it would be the belief that the bible (among other things) can be distilled down into these sort of metaphorical life lessons. I mean the arguments that he makes for these things are sound but at the end of the day it is just one man's interpretation.

Probably not a great answer, i'd have to sit with that and think for a while to have a clearer reply.
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Yeah, for me this would be close to Hegel's view that myths tell us something true about the world, albeit in more symbolic and 'primitive' fashion. But in this Hegelian view, the truth of the myth is actually different from what the myth itself claims to be true. This is a crucial difference, I think. Which is why I wouldn't see this kind of position as religious. In fact, established religion throughout history has vigorously combated such views. Perhaps less so these days, though.
 
Ren said:
So if I think Confucianism is really insightful and interesting and I've researched it and quote from it, that makes me a Confucian?

Not very logical, slanty, not very logical.
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Yeah basically whatever you talk about constantly shows your interest and belief in it.

Like why would you talk about pro life all the time and the aspects of pro life and what makes pro life good and then be like "but I'm pro choice". Actions speak louder than words and you can tell what people believe purely based on the amount of time they spend talking about specific topics. Trust me, there is nobody who absolutely does not believe in something that CONSTANTLY talks about that topic. Even atheists constantly talking about how they hate religion in a way implies their preoccupation with religion. Call me irrational all ya want buddy
 
slant said:
Yeah basically whatever you talk about constantly shows your interest and belief in it.

Like why would you talk about pro life all the time and the aspects of pro life and what makes pro life good and then be like "but I'm pro choice". Actions speak louder than words and you can tell what people believe purely based on the amount of time they spend talking about specific topics. Trust me, there is nobody who absolutely does not believe in something that CONSTANTLY talks about that topic. Even atheists constantly talking about how they hate religion in a way implies their preoccupation with religion. Call me irrational all ya want buddy
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Not irrational, but yeah not very convincing either.
 
Reason said:
Maybe he's not a Christian actually, maybe what JP worships is human potential.
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I think this is closer to truth, and to that end, the idea that human potential is capable of Christ-like acts.
Or some such nonsense.

People who want him to make a particular stance are just people who are afraid of uncertainty and looking for an answer themselves (which is mostly everyone).
From the lens of a scientist, it'd be nice to have some kind of proof/evidence, but since religion is grounded on faith, having proof/evidence just dissolves/transforms religion itself.
What if we had some kind of proof of God/afterlife? Humans would act entirely differently. It'd be interesting for a minute, but then we'd just have more questions.
 
slant said:
You don't gotta believe what I believe I'm never trying to change anyone's mind. When you attempt to persuade someone you rob them of their freedom of mind
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What is this?

We seem to have an epidemic of people refusing to engage in discourses and retreating to their safe little bubbles of subjectivity.

It happened the other day on the forum, too, and I didn't respect it then, either.
 
Why does it matter whether or not JBP is Christian?


Wyote said:
I think this is closer to truth, and to that end, the idea that human potential is capable of Christ-like acts.
Or some such nonsense.

People who want him to make a particular stance are just people who are afraid of uncertainty and looking for an answer themselves (which is mostly everyone).
From the lens of a scientist, it'd be nice to have some kind of proof/evidence, but since religion is grounded on faith, having proof/evidence just dissolves/transforms religion itself.
What if we had some kind of proof of God/afterlife? Humans would act entirely differently. It'd be interesting for a minute, but then we'd just have more questions.
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Are we talking a continuation of consciousness or just our spirits here? I know it could be whatever but just to entertain the hypothetical a bit. XD
 
Deleted member 16771 said:
Lol.
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Look,

after extensive experiences with psychadelics, the idea that there is some objective reality is totally absurd to me.

The mind is
extremely malleable and we are all subject to our own personal biases and no matter how hard we try we are trapped to our own thoughts, memories and experiences. We can't ever be anyone else and the idea that there is some possible objective truth to anything seems like simplicitic, third grader thinking. The truth is that what is real and isn't real changes based on the lens your looking through. I'm not an absolutist; I do not believe in absolute morality. I am a relativist meaning what is moral depends. It's not the same for everyone and it's impossible for it to be that way. If we are all shaped by our history we are all going to have a different perspective and to believe that you perspective is the correct one is 100% ego my friend.

However because we are conscious we are forced to have opinions and perspectives which we think are real and take seriously. That is the trappings of having a human mind, and if you ever hope to grow and learn, you have to be willing to look at what you believe and think to be true as flexible and impossible to absolutely know... That is why I am an absurdist. What I believe I believe because you have to believe something it doesn't mean it's true and were I to no longer want to believe what I believe I would abandon those philosophies because they were no longer true for me. People take life and truth too seriously.

The same things have been going on for thousands of years. We think we are so important but there are plenty of people who lived an entire life and died who you'll never hear of or even think about because that's the reality of it all; life is fleeting and insignificant unless it's your life. So while your friends will grieve you when you die, strangers won't, your significance is relevant again only in the context of the lens you are looking at it.
 
Wyote said:
Whatever floats ur boat
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Some part of me finds the idea of just rejoining the god-consciousness appealing, but I do wonder whether it would count as "me" at that point.

Reincarnation is cool also. There are hats it might be fun to try.

Conventional heaven opens a whole can of worms though. And of course hell is bad, though at least it doesn't raise all sorts of weird questions about morality.
 
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