Legalizing murder of abortionists

Elowen said:
I never said you agreed with that either.

But you seem to think that abortion should not be legal, yes? I am asking so as not to put words in your mouth.
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Actually I'm conflicted on the issue, I don't necessarily think that abortion should be legal, however at this point in time I know that the laws are the way they are and won't change. I also don't necessarily believe in a personal god, however I was offended slightly by the obvious contempt you and others seem to have for people against abortion and am merely pointing out why they are against it because they where being played off like they where some sort of repressive idiots that ONLY want to hold others down (I'm sure some are but not all). There is a reason it is an emotional issue, and I'm probably biased since I was adopted.
 
Switzerland has euthanasia, and it works under a very secure system that doesn't get abused, since there are a number of doctors involved and so on. It's a decision people make when they are of sound mind.

People from outside switzerland have actually come to the country to be euthanaised, and there was talk in the UK and other countries of charging their family members upon their return...

I think it's disgusting. supposedly we have so much freedom to do this and that, but when it comes right down to it, the one true thing that we have rights over isn't ours to control.
 
Galileo said:
Switzerland has euthanasia, and it works under a very secure system that doesn't get abused, since there are a number of doctors involved and so on. It's a decision people make when they are of sound mind.

People from outside switzerland have actually come to the country to be euthanaised, and there was talk in the UK and other countries of charging their family members upon their return...

I think it's disgusting. supposedly we have so much freedom to do this and that, but when it comes right down to it, the one true thing that we have rights over isn't ours to control.
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How hard is it to run your car in your garage with the door closed though?
 
bamf said:
A parasitic group of cells have the "right" to be born into extreme poverty and lacking access to education. We have the "right" to play god and execute people, but we don't have the right to control our own bodies, or the right to request euthenasia when terminally ill, old, and/or elderly.

Having the right to live is absurd when we don't have the right to a peaceful death when we are beyond repair, in the comfort of our own home surrounded by family and friends.
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I would have to completely agree. Most people who argue against abortion only care about the "life" of the baby at the fetus stage. Afterwards, they could care less weather the child lives in poverty or getting an education. Then ironically expect and favor war for their own personal convenience, which is in the end killing another human being. You want death to stop? then lets not be hypocrites. Ban war, ban the use of the death penalty etc etc.
 
Sali said:
How hard is it to run your car in your garage with the door closed though?
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asphyxia is a hell of a way to go...
 
Sali said:
Actually I'm conflicted on the issue, I don't necessarily think that abortion should be legal, however at this point in time I know that the laws are the way they are and won't change. I also don't necessarily believe in a personal god, however I was offended slightly by the obvious contempt you and others seem to have for people against abortion and am merely pointing out why they are against it because they where being played off like they where some sort of repressive idiots that ONLY want to hold others down (I'm sure some are but not all). There is a reason it is an emotional issue, and I'm probably biased since I was adopted.
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My mother and grandmother (father's mother) were both adopted, and I am very glad they were not aborted (obviously I would not be here if they were). That does not change my views on abortion.

My contempt for people who are against abortion mainly stems from the fact that many anti-abortionists are male, reasonably well off and do not seem to think about the rights and health of the mother, too. To me, it is infinitely better for a poor woman who can barely feed herself to get an abortion than to bring a child into that situation. I do not think that people who are against abortions are idiots or ONLY want to hold others down. That is not what I've said at all, and I'm sorry if you've got that impression from what I've said.

I come at this issue from the perspective of the mother. I care about her rights, her health, her mental state. Some people are not equipped to become parents at the time that they get pregnant and it is not good for anyone to force them to keep a child that they do not want and are not capable of caring for.
 
Sali said:
How hard is it to run your car in your garage with the door closed though?
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To me, there is a vast difference between dying via suicide and dying via euthanasia. If it was THAT easy, wouldn't everyone do it?
 
Sali said:
I've heard carbon monoxide poisoning is painless.
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I've seen acute CO poisoning... it's not painless and very noticeable.
 
Elowen said:
To me, there is a vast difference between dying via suicide and dying via euthanasia. If it was THAT easy, wouldn't everyone do it?
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Many old people do, the elderly have some of the highest suicide rates.
 
;quote'How hard is it to run your car in your garage with the door closed though? ;/quote' I'd imagine that when you're terminally ill and in constant pain that it would be pretty hard.

not to mention that your family can't help you, or it's murder. if they don't help you when they find you, it's murder.

Seriously, is it that bad to want a death with dignaty with your loved ones by your side accepting that this is how it is?


because by denying euthanasia this is what we deny people.
 
Sali said:
How hard is it to run your car in your garage with the door closed though?
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And how stigmatized is it? If I get old and handicapped and I'm ready to die, I don't want to have to sneak about doing it, or have my family risk prosecution. If I am truly free in my life, I would be able to have a doctor deliver a dose of chemicals that would allow my passing to be easy, and allow me to be in the company of my loved ones, not in some garage.

I find this issue intrinsically intertwined with right to life groups. Mothers who have abortions are murderers, judges/jurors who sentence people to death are able to walk tall, generals who issue orders to troops can justify civilian murder as long as the number is small, and people who want to die in comfort are or their family/doctors who assist them are criminals.

How is there a right to life when we don't have control over it once we are alive? There's always someone else who has to okay or vote to make our deaths legal. Mothers don't have the right to abort a group of cells living and feeding off of their body. It's not a right to life, it's a right of someone else to chose what we do with our bodies, with our lives, and when we can die outside of natural causes.
 
Sali said:
I was offended slightly by the obvious contempt you and others seem to have for people against abortion
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The issue here is to be pro-choice is supportive (generally) of the choice of those who do not abort as well as those who do, to be pro-life only supports the choice of those who do not abort.

The issue generally isn't about being against those who do not agree with abortion, the issue is being told what is right for them and their morals should be universal and right for you and your morals, and of course if you are a pregnant woman, what is right for your body.

It is an emotional topic, agreement will never be reached but as someone who is pro-choice I completely support your personal right to be pro-life so long as you don't impose your beliefs on me.
 
Elowen said:
I come at this issue from the perspective of the mother. I care about her rights, her health, her mental state. Some people are not equipped to become parents at the time that they get pregnant and it is not good for anyone to force them to keep a child that they do not want and are not capable of caring for.
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My birth mother was not equipped to be a parent to me.
 
Sali said:
Many old people do, the elderly have some of the highest suicide rates.
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I know many old people do. I know that if I had a terminal illness, I would want to die with dignity, surrounded by people I love.

Taking your own life due to your terminal illness does not allow you to do so, because it is illegal to 'aid and abet' suicide in New Zealand. I also do not see suicide as dying with dignity, but that is my own personal view.
 
People have the right to die with dignity. The deserve to say goodbye to their family and not alone in some sketchy smelly garage
 
I know many old people do. I know that if I had a terminal illness, I would want to die with dignity, surrounded by people I love.
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I know this, and I think it's a sad state of affairs that these people have to turn to suicide to end the pain and suffering.

but if I was going to die of some horrible disease I would want to die remembering my husband and so on around my bed talking to me and loving me. I wouldn't want to fade away on a cloud of ever increasing morphine.
 
Elowen said:
I know many old people do. I know that if I had a terminal illness, I would want to die with dignity, surrounded by people I love.

Taking your own life due to your terminal illness does not allow you to do so, because it is illegal to 'aid and abet' suicide in New Zealand. I also do not see suicide as dying with dignity, but that is my own personal view.
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I do believe people should have the right to assisted suicide or euthanasia, with the comment I was mainly addressing a statement that made it sound as if people had no choice in the matter whatsoever, and ending your life is a choice you always have regardless of what laws are put in place.
 
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