Let's talk about women in powerplay

mintoots said:
Uhuh. Hence the demise of capitalism and the paramount importance of sustainable and encompassing economic models. This is why I love urban and regional planning.
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What's your preferred alternative?

What do you think of the "within-capitalism" solution of a cultural change in which men and women do equal amounts of "women's work"? I know it's got to be a bit more involved than paternity leave since men tend to work through that.
 
Big yikes reading the last few pages of this thread. I very much don't agree with @Themis , but I wanna believe it is coming from a good place that got twisted along the way.

In my limited understanding of women's rights and women entering the work force, I think it should be considered a matter of fact that lifestyles that were once much more viable are going away. An in essence doubled work force changes the landscape, and it comes with real changes to how we can live life.

This is not me saying it was better before, frankly I don't believe so, but I think we should acknowledge that with these changes some options become less viable as well. With that said, there should still be the free choice for anyone to pursue a career, a personal life, etc. And we should all have the equal opportunity to do so. Anything else is beyond reasonable to me.

What I think happens is that modern women have it much harder than men getting their lives together, in a much more narrow time span. For a woman to have a successful career and family life, I generally think that is a much taller order than the pressure we put on men, and I think that is what what we should be talking about.
 
In the Wings said:
What's your preferred alternative?

What do you think of the "within-capitalism" solution of a cultural change in which men and women do equal amounts of "women's work"? I know it's got to be a bit more involved than paternity leave since men tend to work through that.
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I'm not sure what you mean. Can you tell me more?

What I do know is that the market is continually changing. Even with this pandemic, creative and mental jobs are growing in demand and these jobs don't need any biases on gender. What kind of women's work are you referring to? Can you give me an example?
 
mintoots said:
I'm not sure what you mean. Can you tell me more?

What I do know is that the market is continually changing. Even with this pandemic, creative and mental jobs are growing in demand and these jobs don't need any biases on gender. What kind of women's work are you referring to? Can you give me an example?
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You described capitalism as not correctly valuing the work women tended to do pre-gender reform (and that women tend to do more of now, although that's changing). What economic system or reforms would you implement to ensure it was valued correctly, assuming you had the power?

"Women's work" (and I do put that in quotes, because anyone can do most of it) would include childrearing, housework, things like that. Things women did in "traditional society".
 
Elis said:
For a woman to have a successful career and family life, I generally think that is a much taller order than the pressure we put on men, and I think that is what what we should be talking about.
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That is correct. The order is taller. I think that even on fronts not necessarily at work, demands from women are tough but I don't think demands from men are any lesser either.
In the Wings said:
You described capitalism as not correctly valuing the work women tended to do pre-gender reform (and that women tend to do more of now, although that's changing). What economic system or reforms would you implement to ensure it was valued correctly, assuming you had the power?

"Women's work" (and I do put that in quotes, because anyone can do most of it) would include childrearing, housework, things like that. Things women did in "traditional society".
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That is a really tough question.

For starters, gender issue regardless, I hope for a circular economic system that treats all the systems of the world as one integral and natural ecosystem. Rather than differentiating the man made environments from forest reserves or stuff like that, we should instead recognize that each system is integral to each other. Upon taking this mindset, economic models then can move from a focus on capital and cash production to a focus on a new kind of profit: sustainability in all forms of resources, human resource included. We need to redefine the value of profit such that when the quotient of mental illnesses are down, that is a form of profit. When the lifetime of natural resources are extended, that is a profit. And other such similar examples.

To me, a system focused on these lifts off the conversation on gender by incorporating a variety of job types not just focused on hard labor. Output en masse does not have to be the only benchmark of productivity. With the emergence of technologies like A.I, the workload shifts from physically intensive labor to mentally intensive labor and these are jobs that all genders can perform regardless.

We cannot disregard the biological differences of men and women and yet society should be able to comfortably choose a gender that fits without having to police so much of one's behavior. I'm not saying that we stop embracing our femininity just that they don't mistake the femininity as incapacity. In the workplace I should be able to act cute and girly without my authority being undermined, which I find is actually possible because I put my skills on the table as a tool to move towards the common goal. Everybody forgets I'm a girl when the conversation is about output. Just because I ask others to open a stubborn lid for me should only mean that I have weak hands and not that I have weak hands because I'm just a girl. (I'm a girl and I have weak hands. Some girls have strong hands. Before my carpal tunnel syndrome worsened, I had no issues with heavy lifting.)

Parenthood should also be seen as a job for four hands so leave credits should be similar for both men and women. Women need to heal physically and mentally and the presence of a partner is very much helpful to that. Often, career based individuals disregard the rigors of housework but it is work nonetheless and tedious too especially with kids on board. In as much as kids need both mom and dad for their optimum development then child rearing should not just be delegated to the mom.

If the economic model recognizes that optimum child development is profit, mental health of workers both singles and parents is also profit... Well, that's how this post ends.

I just don't see why it's necessary for a woman to just be a woman. I really don't get it. I am not an object.
 
Independence, money, power, egoism laziness, who is going to take the biggest piece of the pie!!!
what i see is opression of Jewish women with saved heads but nobody has the balls to talk about it because its religion, what i see is 3 years old girls in Somalia with their genitals cut off but nobody gives a shit because its tradition, what i see is a father in Pakistan cutting off the head of his daughter because she was late for 2 min after school but nobody talks because its principal.

What i see is some stupid pussies in the west who have no fucking clue about what oppression is, because if they had they would be much more humble, talking about education when the same time over 60% of the universities students globaly are female, fighting about 7 bucks pay gab when at the same time they financing a global beauty industry that makes hundreds of BILLIONS every year killing animals non stop, who has illegal children labor to feed their glorious vanity!!!
The one who wants rights has to clean his shit first.
We all have too many rights but we don't have the responsibility to handle them.
Since ever both genders are consent in this fucking crimes and yet we debate who is going to take the snake out of the hole.

What a disgrace really!
 
Themis said:
Independence, money, power, egoism laziness, who is going to take the biggest piece of the pie!!!
what i see is opression of Jewish women with saved heads but nobody has the balls to talk about it because its religion, what i see is 3 years old girls in Somalia with their genitals cut off but nobody gives a shit because its tradition, what i see is a father in Pakistan cutting off the head of his daughter because she was late for 2 min after school but nobody talks because its principal.

What i see is some stupid pussies in the west who have no fucking clue about what oppression is, because if they had they would be much more humble, talking about education when the same time over 60% of the universities students globaly are female, fighting about 7 bucks pay gab when at the same time they financing a global beauty industry that makes hundreds of BILLIONS every year killing animals non stop, who has illegal children labor to feed their glorious vanity!!!
The one who wants rights has to clean his shit first.
We all have too many rights but we don't have the responsibility to handle them.
Since ever both genders are consent in this fucking crimes and yet we debate who is going to take the snake out of the hole.

What a disgrace really!
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These examples you have above are reasons why feminism is of utmost important too. But true feminism is not that radical war against men. That's just strange.
 
Elis, I completely agree with you. In our time, life is much faster and more difficult than it was before, when women had to stay at home with children and run the household. And despite the fact that that time has passed, now it is no less difficult for women who work and are engaged in childcare and household. It seems that, life should have become easier - women rights have emerged, but also appeared more responsibilities. Of course, modern women are lucky that they can run a business in comfortable clothes and do not have to wear a corset and a long dress, they can wear an invisible bra and a beautiful suit.
 
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