Mad Men

[Asa]

Mad Men discussion thread.

Let's discuss all things Mad Men: episodes, memes, jokes, writing, clues, call-backs, connecting the dots, symbolism, sets, costumes, MBTI, nuanced characters, morally gray characters, the human condition, 1960s American life, entertainment...

Thread is pax - why would we fight about a TV show? We all agree Chauncey was wronged, right?

Please try to remember to hide spoilers.
Whenever possible, list the episode so people will know whether to click on a spoiler. For example S2E4.

 

[Asa]

Jon Hamm and January Jones goofing off on the set of S3E2.


I'll start with Bye Bye Birdie because it's an easy way to remind people how the writing on Mad Men works.


The Patio (later renamed Diet Pepsi IRL) commercial featuring Bye Bye Birdie.

Spoiler: S3E2

Bye Bye Birdie referenced the use of the musical/movie in advertising and popular culture. Windex famously borrowed a song from BBB for a jingle. "Spray Sunshine All Over The Place." Other companies tried the same with less success. "We Love You, Conrad" entered popular culture, replacing the name Conrad with whatever other word people needed. Sterling Cooper chose the wrong song, though, because "Bye Bye Birdie" sounds shrill. The only thing that made the song tolerable was Ann Margaret who was the It girl at the time.

But wait, there's more.

Spoiler: S3E13

Bye Bye Birdie is a HUGE clue that Betty (sometimes calls Birdie) and Don are over. They finalize their divorce in S3 E13.

Bye Bye Birdie may be an early clue to the last season.

Spoiler: S7E13

Many fans believe this song also signals Betty's fate at the end of the series. We find out Betty has terminal cancer in S7E13. Considering Weiner lays clues about season seven all the way through the series, including in the intro with Don falling, it’s possible.
Betty's demise at the end of the series, especially as she attempts to change her life by going back to school, symbolizes the end, the “death,” of the iconic American housewife role and the changing times for American women. Betty was...many things... but she was the perfect housewife. She dies in 1970 – a decade that brought huge changes for women.

Another layer: Badass Betty.

Spoiler: S1E9

In S1, E9, Betty shoots the pigeons after her neighbor threatens to kill their dog. This threat scares the children and causes Sally to have nightmares. Those birdies went bye, bye, too. It could be another clue about Betty's demise. This was our first real glimpse of Betty outside of the cage-like confines of the perfect housewife image, and it shows her killing innocent birds - the creature that symbolizes her.

 

[Asa]

Fashion in Mad Men: What Pucci meant then and what it means in the show.

Spoiler: These dresses are a major hint.

Pucci's bold patterns represented independence for modern women. If Don Draper's wife wears Pucci, it means his marriage is ending.

 

[Asa]

Book characters read on the show.

 

[Asa]

Inspiration for Mad Men:

Camus
Kafka
Gabriel Garcia Marquez

Bullet Park - John Cheever
Revolutionary Road - Richard Yates
Rabbit, Run - John Updike
Great Gatsby - F. Scott FitzGerald
Something Happened - Jospeh Heller
The Man In The Gray Flannel Suit - Sloan Wilson
The Hucksters - Frederic Wakeman
The Inferno - Dante
Meditations in an Emergency - Frank O'Hara
The Confessions of an Advertising Man - David Ogilvy

 

[S Dole Melipone]

Great show. In my top five for sure. I've watched the whole series probably three times.

 

[Asa]

Great show. In my top five for sure. I've watched the whole series probably three times.

I'm on my third watch. I don't usually like shows or movies where all the characters are "unlikeable," but this show is so well written, and so many of the characters are multi-faceted that it's an exception.

As immoral, selfish, and asinine as the characters act, most have positive attributes, too, and they're likeable or relatable despite how terrible they act... and/or they're likeable because they're a study on the human condition.

The vintage/ historic setting and the fact that it isn't a show about crime and murder, but about a creative field... in this case, one that influences (and manipulates) American culture... interest me, too.

 

[philostam]

Mad Men is my favorite show. I keep telling that to everyone who asks, but they either didn't watch it or say "it was OK, a bit slow for me". I first watched it as a teenager around 2013 and just found it aesthetically so appealing. Later on second watch in 2017 I discovered its different layers (there was a great youtube channel "orange couch" back in he day, in which they analyzed episode by episode). I remember in 2017 I was on a sort of gap year in China and my then gf (now wife) was the first one I watched Mad Men together with. She loved it and still does to this day, perhaps even more than me. We also just discovered MBTI at that time so we had great time typing all the characters. I'm not exagarating to say Mad Men is what brought us together and sealed the bond.

For me the show even better around season 2/3 when Don moves to his NY apartment and Sally starts growing up. Don and Sally moments are my favorite. Or when Don goes on some random trips to solve his issues or to get a new perspective on things. The shows does an excellent job keeping Don's inner life hidden from the viewer, but then on occasions when it gets revealed it's just so powerful. The other cast of characters are interesting as well, although I probably found Joan's story arc the least interesting.

Period dramas are my favorite in general, but this is for sure the best one. The creative/business side is spot on too. Even characters like Rogers...I liked watching him work and entertaining the clients, it's an excellent representation of account manager's job.

 

[SlowUpTake]

watched "seven twenty three" (season 3) last night. so many things to explore but i did find the brief convo don has with another dad at the eclipse kid scene. The guy mentions seeing the school teacher running in the am when he does and then briefly talks about why he runs. don of course is just looking for info on the teacher but does show some curiosity...made me think about the last scene of the series. Also kind of relates to the whole imposter self vs true self dynamic.

 

[Asa]

@philostam -- The writing is superb.

If you remember how you typed the characters, I'd love to see your list.
It may be a bit slow for some people. It's thoughtful and character driven. It's about Don's mental and emotional road trip and the human condition. Those stories aren't usually action-packed. Even before I read the list of books that inspired Weiner, it reminded me of Dante's Inferno and Kafka. It's hard to find a show of this caliber that doesn't focus on solving murders or a big crime family. This show balances professional adult businessmen with creativity and chaos. It focuses on dynamics between people without getting soapy.

People argue over what kind of person Don is, but my perspective is that we're seeing all the chaos people usually keep hidden. Most people don't act on all those thought and impulses the way he does, but to make the story work, he needs to. I’m not saying everyone wants to cheat, or that everyone wants to drink themselves stupid, but everyone has messy and chaotic, even destructive, thoughts of some kind.
Excluding Don, Pete's story arc is the most interesting to me.

Joan is my favorite woman character. Haha.
The women of Mad Men aren't as well written as the men. Maybe it was a choice because women are supporting characters and each represents a different symbol/icon of womanhood on this show. With the exception of Betty, many of the storylines that follow women into their personal lives fall a little flat. Those storylines aren't bad writing, and the stories are always included for a reason, but I so did not care about Peggy's family and her poor choices with men, or about Megan's other job.


Not a fan of Duck, Lou Avery, or Bobbie (the woman), plus many other bit characters. Obviously, some of the major clients are trash humans.

 

[Asa]

watched "seven twenty three" (season 3) last night. so many things to explore but i did find the brief convo don has with another dad at the eclipse kid scene. The guy mentions seeing the school teacher running in the am when he does and then briefly talks about why he runs. don of course is just looking for info on the teacher but does show some curiosity...made me think about the last scene of the series. Also kind of relates to the whole imposter self vs true self dynamic.

This was a weird episode. Every choice he makes with women brings him closer to a high risk zone where he's more likely to get caught. Meanwhile, several other incidents in this episode are high risk for other reasons.

The eclipse was beautifully shot, but seems to symbolize how much his dark secrets are starting to overlap with the facade he presents. He's a powerful man, but not invincible, and he's starting to slip.

 

[SlowUpTake]

@Asa his self loathing comes out in his disdain for Roger.

 

[Asa]

@Asa his self loathing comes out in his disdain for Roger.

Does he disdain Roger, disdain confinement, or disdain the parts of Roger that mirror his own choices?

He and Roger argue often on the show, but they're friends. (If Don really has friends.) He’s bratty toward Roger sometimes, especially considering Roger is the one who changed his life and gave him the chance to become, "Don Draper, genius ad man."
Later, his protegee Peggy echoes this with Don, and he's surprised.

This is the episode where Don brings Hilton to SC. He's cagey and a little possessive of Hilton. He and Conrad Hilton met at Roger's country club party and bonded over feeling like outsiders. SC tries to force Don to be an insider and sign the contract.

This is a call-back to when Burt made him partner and Don asked if there was a contract. Burt put the info Pete spilled in his back pocket and forced Don to sign based on that info. Don’s secrets are catching up with him.
....Meanwhile, Pete asks to be part of Hilton while Don faces the consequences of Pete’s attempted blackmail.

Don's pending contract with SC relates to Betty. Don has commitments to both Betty and SC, but wants to be a free agent. Betty's behavior in the episode hints at the future trouble Don may see at SC, too. Yet, as much as Don wants total freedom, he recognizes the strengths of both marriage and working for an agency. He wants the best of both worlds.

Don and Roger are a lot alike, so if he disdains Roger, it's about self-loathing. (IMO) They both party, they both sleep around, they’re both reckless, they are both generous with outsiders but leave their families wanting, and they both let their personal lives affect the agency. Roger is just funnier and more carefree than Don... and he can be because his name is on the door and he's so rich, it wouldn't matter if he quit working.

One of my few issues with the show is how we don't see enough of Don's genius. We only hear about it. Pitches fail often on the show. Once in a while, we see a big moment like Kodak's Carousel, but not often enough for me to understand why agencies put up with Don being such a loose cannon. I know he is an ad genius and a rare talent because the show tells me he is, so I know why they keep him, but we don't see it enough compared to all the times we see him act unhinged.

As always, feel free to disagree. We all have our own perspectives, and I love reading other people’s takes and insight. I’m also on Season 2 right now. I’ll probably mix up pieces of episodes. Please correct me if I do.

 

[SlowUpTake]

we see his genius when he suggests moving the end table and the lamp in the living room. In this episode Don imagines his "father" telling a joke which (imo) signifies what SC is trying to do to him. I am also kinda stuck on Don's aspirations. He aspires to be a good father but kinda sucks at it. He wants to be a husband but does not understand what that means. The description of the runner's high catches him, and the young man who is shirking his military service by marrying for convenience is Don.

 

[StarryEyedDreamer]

Parts I like about this show are cookbooks, foods, fashion, cars, some evolving ideas in the business world, and painting characters as morally gray. After watching it, I couldn't resist looking up vintage cookbooks shown in some episodes. I downloaded digitally archived ones to use on my phone while cooking. Baking that date nut bread was very worth it. Now for the fashion, I admired that they cared about quality clothes during this era. Cars were highly aesthetic from the 1960's. Regarding evolving ideas, I liked how they were employing black people and giving women more independence. One aspect that I dislike about some entertainment pieces is that they make protagonistic characters black and white rather than morally gray. It makes them more like Mary Sues than characters that grow from learning right and wrong through mistakes. As an example, Don Draper made it look like he had a perfect life. But on the inside, he was like other people who had their personal struggles.

#JusticeForChauncey