MBTI Populations

Nobleheart said:
So then you're saying that a T type female can't have maternal instincts, and that F type males do? While the support for your argument is that 2/3 of the populations lean T or F, the counter implication is that the other 1/3 are aberrant.
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That's not what I said.

The differences between us are subtle, but collectively they do produce stereotypes which we've come to accept as the norm.
 
88chaz88 said:
T is masculine, F is feminine. The reason for this is to do with the way our brains are wired. Men are better at perception and pattern recognition, and women are better at language and understanding emotions. Makes men natural T types and women natural F types.

On top of that I'd hazard a guess that E and P are masculine and I and J are feminine traits. Not sure of the N and S though.

Edit: I could be wrong on the E and I front...
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.....pardon me but I see an endless cycle of biology and social views. Probably it's indeed because of both.

As per N or S, If I may pinpoint I'd suggest the 'realist' (as in, 'don't dream / think too much' instead of 'seeing reality') state of the world,

I and E, probably a gender-based ideal. Men should be active and aggressive, women should be reserved and nurturing....

...but that's another huge generalizations of my own.
 
The reason there might be an N bias towards females is because intuition is associated at times with feeling, and irrational and ''dreamy'' process which guys are stereotypically supposed to e focused on reality and don't focus much on dreams. Hence the term ''women's intuition'', though of course this is wrong just like any MBTI generalization.
 
88chaz88 said:
T is masculine, F is feminine. The reason for this is to do with the way our brains are wired. Men are better at perception and pattern recognition, and women are better at language and understanding emotions. Makes men natural T types and women natural F types.

On top of that I'd hazard a guess that E and P are masculine and I and J are feminine traits. Not sure of the N and S though.

Edit: I could be wrong on the E and I front...
Click to expand...
There is no way E is masculine. I my be seen as a feminine ideal in male dominated societies, but if anything that is a reaction to the fact that women tend to be too extroverted for men to handle.


Extroverts and Judgers each make up a majority of both genders, but these are strong majorities (~70%) of women and only a slight majority (~55%) of men. A strong majority of women (~75%) are Feelers while only a slight majority of men (~55%) are Thinkers. Extroverts make up an equally strong majority (~75-80%) of both genders.


ExFJ would be the most feminine types, and IxTP the most masculine.


Male hormones do lead to more aggression, but that does not mean that aggression should be considered masculine. Both genders have both male and female hormones, only in different levels. The main brain also has considerably higher tolerance for testosterone, making us require far higher levels in order for it to effect our attitudes and behavior. (This may be why men tend to have higher emotional stability than women and tend to prefer thinking to feeling. Hormone levels just can't change fast enough for men to react based on feeling before rational analysis kicks in.) Men are far more passive than women with equal hormone levels would be. It may also be worth noting that in women love leads to elevated testosterone while in men it causes the levels of this hormone to drop. (Lust increases testosterone in either sex; this difference might explain why many studies find that men are better at distinguishing the two from each other than women are.) When a man really cares about someone it is natural to become less aggressive.





Female brains are smaller yet have far more brain cells and synapses, but the big difference in how the sexes' brains are wired is that both hemispheres of the female brain usually work together whereas the male brain is more compartmentalized. The pop-psychology left-brain/right-brain dichotomy does not mean much in women as their right brain is practically another left brain and their left brains are a little better at so called right brain tasks. In fact both genders use both sides of the brain for most tasks, but in males it is usually only a tiny bit of activity on one side and a lot on the other while in females it is fairly well balanced. This could be because women have far more connections between the hemispheres. Also, the distinctions of left = logical and right = creative is simply wrong. It is better to say that left = symbolic and right = holistic. The left brain simplifies for the sake of making reasoning easier, while the right brain tries to handle inputs in all their detail. This basically means that extroverted judging functions are left brained and introverted judging functions right brained.
 
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magister343 said:
It may also be worth noting that in women love leads to elevated testosterone while in men it causes the levels of this hormone to drop. (Lust increases testosterone in either sex; this difference might explain why many studies find that men are better at distinguishing the two from each other than women are.) When a man really cares about someone it is natural to become less aggressive.
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Fascinating.

This explains so much.
 
88chaz88 said:
Actually going by the stats on page 1, it's pretty evenly spread.
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Really? Looks like a 2:1 ratio to me in both genders.

Male

ESTJ 16%
ESTP 12.5%
ENFJ 2.5%
ESFP 8%
ESFJ 7%
ENTP 6%
ENFP 6%
ENTJ 5.5%

63.5%

ISFP 5%
ISFJ 4%
INTP 4%
INTJ 2.5%
INFP 1.5%
INFJ .5%
ISTJ 10.5%
ISTP 8.5%

36.5%

Female

ESFJ 17%
ESFP 14%
ESTJ 10%
ENTP 3%
ENTJ 2.5%
ENFP 8%
ESTP 7.5%
ENFJ 5.5%

67.5%

ISFP 7%
ISTJ 6.5%
ISTP 3.5%
INFP 2.5%
INFJ 1.5%
INTP 1%
INTJ 0.5%
ISFJ 10%

32.5%
 
Mostly all of them are evenly spread except for F and T in genders. The other assumptions are all stereotypes, though nothing is stereotype in MBTI more than T and F when it comes to gender roles.
 
I was just having this conversation about men's vs. women's brains and how they work with a few friends of mine. Is it then possible that an INFJ can have a scientifically male brain? How would male and female INFJs think differently?
 
magister343 said:
There is no way E is masculine. I my be seen as a feminine ideal in male dominated societies, but if anything that is a reaction to the fact that women tend to be too extroverted for men to handle.


Extroverts and Judgers each make up a majority of both genders, but these are strong majorities (~70%) of women and only a slight majority (~55%) of men. A strong majority of women (~75%) are Feelers while only a slight majority of men (~55%) are Thinkers. Extroverts make up an equally strong majority (~75-80%) of both genders.


ExFJ would be the most feminine types, and IxTP the most masculine.


Male hormones do lead to more aggression, but that does not mean that aggression should be considered masculine. Both genders have both male and female hormones, only in different levels. The main brain also has considerably higher tolerance for testosterone, making us require far higher levels in order for it to effect our attitudes and behavior. (This may be why men tend to have higher emotional stability than women and tend to prefer thinking to feeling. Hormone levels just can't change fast enough for men to react based on feeling before rational analysis kicks in.) Men are far more passive than women with equal hormone levels would be. It may also be worth noting that in women love leads to elevated testosterone while in men it causes the levels of this hormone to drop. (Lust increases testosterone in either sex; this difference might explain why many studies find that men are better at distinguishing the two from each other than women are.) When a man really cares about someone it is natural to become less aggressive.





Female brains are smaller yet have far more brain cells and synapses, but the big difference in how the sexes' brains are wired is that both hemispheres of the female brain usually work together whereas the male brain is more compartmentalized. The pop-psychology left-brain/right-brain dichotomy does not mean much in women as their right brain is practically another left brain and their left brains are a little better at so called right brain tasks. In fact both genders use both sides of the brain for most tasks, but in males it is usually only a tiny bit of activity on one side and a lot on the other while in females it is fairly well balanced. This could be because women have far more connections between the hemispheres. Also, the distinctions of left = logical and right = creative is simply wrong. It is better to say that left = symbolic and right = holistic. The left brain simplifies for the sake of making reasoning easier, while the right brain tries to handle inputs in all their detail. This basically means that extroverted judging functions are left brained and introverted judging functions right brained.
Click to expand...

The reason why females may appear extroverted is not necessarily due to E/I but more to F. Generally a person who is more ''feeling'', is emotional expressive and looks for emotional warmth and sincerity can be mistaken for an E.
 
88chaz88 said:
On top of that I'd hazard a guess that E and P are masculine and I and J are feminine traits. Not sure of the N and S though.

Edit: I could be wrong on the E and I front...
Click to expand...

A "woman's intuition" is something I use to hear as a young kid.
 
88chaz88 said:
T is masculine, F is feminine. The reason for this is to do with the way our brains are wired. Men are better at perception and pattern recognition, and women are better at language and understanding emotions. Makes men natural T types and women natural F types.

On top of that I'd hazard a guess that E and P are masculine and I and J are feminine traits. Not sure of the N and S though.

Edit: I could be wrong on the E and I front...
Click to expand...

What about any possible instances of females being better at pattern recognition and males being better at understanding emotions and better at languages? General patterns do not necessitate that the laws drawn from them are ubiquitously true. What reasons do we have to believe that the laws of the universe- if they even really exist- are invariable? Just because we do not have scientifically accredited data and information to support the existence of variations?

Nobleheart said:
I think it is more the case that these are cultural expectations, and therefore people develop self images that conform to them... and therefore lean that way on self assessment tests.
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I agree. A lot of studies pretend that environment and the subjective essence of the individual can lead to any sort of significant effects in a person's individual psychology.

88chaz88 said:
Nah, I suspect that cultural expectations can play a part, but there is definitely science behind it. Maternal instinct, for instance, does definitely exist.

Just like every species, our brains do differ between genders.
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Not every species has brains, gender is a psychological construct in the mind which entails various facets- such as gender identity and gender expression. Sex is the biological construct. Also once more general patterns are just that, we have no reason to believe variances would not occur.

88chaz88 said:
That's not what I said.

The differences between us are subtle, but collectively they do produce stereotypes which we've come to accept as the norm.
Click to expand...

Common trends are the norm but that does not mean everything is "normal"

magister343 said:
Male hormones do lead to more aggression, but that does not mean that aggression should be considered masculine. Both genders have both male and female hormones, only in different levels. The main brain also has considerably higher tolerance for testosterone, making us require far higher levels in order for it to effect our attitudes and behavior. (This may be why men tend to have higher emotional stability than women and tend to prefer thinking to feeling. Hormone levels just can't change fast enough for men to react based on feeling before rational analysis kicks in.) Men are far more passive than women with equal hormone levels would be. It may also be worth noting that in women love leads to elevated testosterone while in men it causes the levels of this hormone to drop. (Lust increases testosterone in either sex; this difference might explain why many studies find that men are better at distinguishing the two from each other than women are.) When a man really cares about someone it is natural to become less aggressive.





Female brains are smaller yet have far more brain cells and synapses, but the big difference in how the sexes' brains are wired is that both hemispheres of the female brain usually work together whereas the male brain is more compartmentalized. The pop-psychology left-brain/right-brain dichotomy does not mean much in women as their right brain is practically another left brain and their left brains are a little better at so called right brain tasks. In fact both genders use both sides of the brain for most tasks, but in males it is usually only a tiny bit of activity on one side and a lot on the other while in females it is fairly well balanced. This could be because women have far more connections between the hemispheres. Also, the distinctions of left = logical and right = creative is simply wrong. It is better to say that left = symbolic and right = holistic. The left brain simplifies for the sake of making reasoning easier, while the right brain tries to handle inputs in all their detail. This basically means that extroverted judging functions are left brained and introverted judging functions right brained.
Click to expand...

Some more recent evidence- http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/12/091208132241.htm - found some interesting patterns.
Also once more general patterns are just that. Further more if the left brain generally simplifies, then would it not be more accurate to say that it is more reductionist than symbolic? Also the brain is seem as being rather versatile. One of my textbooks mentioned that once in Holland a seven year old girl had her brain's left hemisphere removed. It was anticipated that she would not be able to use language efficiently, if at all. She is now fluent in two languages- Dutch and Turkish. Also some of these studies omit "minorities" such as the homosexual and asexual communities.
 
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Jesus christ, I would have thought anyone with an inkling of intuition would have been able to get what I was saying. But no, you seem to take it that I meant men are better with T things and women are better with F things 100% of the time and neither can exist without the other with no exceptions to the rule.
 
Yeah, reductionist is probably a better term. I was thinking is verms of symbolic logic, but right after I wrote that I realized that it could easily be misinterpreted. Symbolism in the sense of using metaphors is right brained.


Interesting study.


I remember watching some documentary in 9th grade biology that showed a girl who had a massive stroke that caused over 95% of one hemisphere (I believe this was the right side) brain to die. (I think they had to surgically remove the dead neural tissue to prevent some serious complications.) This caused a little impairment in physical coordination (her movements looked a lot like those one someone with Down's Syndrome), but did not harm her cognitive abilities. At the time of the documentary she was at the top of her class.
 
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