MBTI's Concrete Impact on Your Life

[philostam]

Se has mostly in the moment, impulsive, literal, raw, even territorial. It has feminine and masculine versions, but it is the epitome of the reckless male stereotype. It is worse with higher testosterone, but can be manifest in those with under developed frontal lobes.

Exactly, well said.

 

[Ren]

Or maybe just rewatches Monty Python's Summarising Proust Competion

Oh my, does this really exist?

I absolutely need to see this, haha!

 

[philostam]

Hmmm, let's then take all the ESFP men in Paris, with their slender bodies and effete manners, and force them into battle against the Spartans at Thermopylae. I look forward to seeing their impulsive, raw, territorial ardour at play!

I don't think you understand the point, but at the same time I cannot express the point well enough.

We would first have to define what do we even mean by masculine and feminine, but it would take too long. Perhaps later.

 

[Ren]

I don't think you understand the point, but at the same time I cannot express the point well enough.

We would first have to define what do we even mean by masculine and feminine, but it would take too long. Perhaps later.

Oh no, I understand it. I was actually joking in that message.

There is definitely something impulsive to Se-dom, but I think things get really much more tangled when Se begins to play with/under other functions.

 

[John K]

Oh my, does this really exist?

I absolutely need to see this, haha!

It exists - I can only find an 18 second clip on YT. It seems to be available on a subscription channel, but I haven't signed up for it

 

[Deleted member 16771]

Is it 'masculine' to be reckless and impulsive? Seems anti-control/mastery to me. In fact, it seems like the very embodiment of the passive/feminine principle. Go with the flow, follow your feelings, enjoy what comes to you, be entertained, &c.

Personally, I don't see 'Se' as 'masculine', though I'm not averse to speculating about the gendered flavour of one function or another.

 

[John K]

I don't think you understand the point, but at the same time I cannot express the point well enough.

We would first have to define what do we even mean by masculine and feminine, but it would take too long. Perhaps later.

I think @Impact Character 's suggestion of thinking male v female energy is a very useful one to help express this more clearly. I find the idea that the different functions come predisposed to different balances of yin and yang energy very plausible. For example there is a lot more yang than yin in extraversion, and vv in introversion.

 

[Impact Character]

I think @Impact Character 's suggestion of thinking male v female energy is a very useful one to help express this more clearly. I find the idea that the different functions come predisposed to different balances of yin and yang energy very plausible. For example there is a lot more yang than yin in extraversion, and vv in introversion.

..Yes, and the general dispute is then maybe also not as much subjective Ti/Fi system and identity colored.

It is interesting, though, to explain stereotypes with function stacking as a side matter to look at.

 

[Ren]

Is it 'masculine' to be reckless and impulsive? Seems anti-control/mastery to me. In fact, it seems like the very embodiment of the passive/feminine principle. Go with the flow, follow your feelings, enjoy what comes to you, be entertained, &c.

I'd see the feminine principle (if there is such a thing) as seeing 'order from within', i.e. to be comfortably sitting within the circle of order. Whereas the masculine principle would see it from without — whether to enforce it or to resist it, it would not be such as to be externally imposed on oneself.

 

[Deleted member 16771]

I'd see the feminine principle (if there is such a thing) as seeing 'order from within', i.e. to be comfortably sitting within the circle of order. Whereas the masculine principle would see it from without — whether to enforce it or to resist it, it would not be such as to be externally imposed on oneself.

My usage is that mentioned by John - a simple dichotomy between yang and yin, active and passive, masculine and feminine.

Anything more complex than that reduces the conceptual integrity of the dichotomy.

 

[John K]

I'd see the feminine principle (if there is such a thing) as seeing 'order from within', i.e. to be comfortably sitting within the circle of order. Whereas the masculine principle would see it from without — whether to enforce it or to resist it, it would not be such as to be externally imposed on oneself.

Or to see the masculine as active and the feminine as receptive.

 

[philostam]

Yeah but even so, we could control for Fi by taking INFP and ISFP in comparison. According to your logic, INFP should be more feminine since NeSi vs. SeNi, and yet it's clearly not the case. ISFP women tend to be the most feminine of all, whereas INFP women are more likely to be a little eccentric, zany, not as exquisitely made up, etc.

Anyway, this is just to show that your argument about Se doesn't hold upon closer scrutiny, it's shaky at best imo.

Also, if you want to isolate Se/Ni axis vs Ne/Si axis, we should also compare ISTP and INTP.

I think ISTPs are more masculine, or at least more domineering and assertive.

The same with ISTJ vs INTJ and ESTJ vs ENTJ etc. I simply think there is something "tougher" about Ni/Se than Ne/Si.

 

[John K]

My usage is that mentioned by John - a simple dichotomy between yang and yin, active and passive, masculine and feminine.

Anything more complex than that reduces the conceptual integrity of the dichotomy.

Exactly - sorry you posted just before me.

 

[Ren]

My usage is that mentioned by John - a simple dichotomy between yang and yin, active and passive, masculine and feminine.

Anything more complex than that reduces the conceptual integrity of the dichotomy.

Or to see the masculine as active and the feminine as receptive.

Yeah, active versus receptive is a good dichotomy

But let's just say that to me, a genuine 'rebel' type is an active type, not a receptive one.

 

[philostam]

Yeah, active versus receptive is a good dichotomy

But let's just say that to me, a genuine 'rebel' type is an active type, not a receptive one.

I agree, and even considering this dichotomy, Se/Ni axis is more active than Ne/Si.

I feel like we all agree, but I sloppily used the word "masculine" which caused confusion.

But yes, thanks to this discussion I sharpened up my definitions a bit.

 

[Ren]

Also, if you want to isolate Se/Ni axis vs Ne/Si axis, we should also compare ISTP and INTP.

I think ISTPs are more masculine, or at least more domineering and assertive.

The same with ISTJ vs INTJ and ESTJ vs ENTJ etc. I simply think there is something "tougher" about Ni/Se than Ne/Si.

Yeah, I'd be on your page when it comes to ISTP versus INTP.

But couldn't we imagine that rather than being more masculine, Se is more likely to highlight either masculinity or femininity?

So ISTP men would be more masculine on average, but ISFP women would also be more feminine.

Whereas something like the N function would somewhat dilute the masculine/feminine dichotomy.

I know you don't agree about ISFP/INFP, but that's just an idea.

 

[Deleted member 16771]

But let's just say that to me, a genuine 'rebel' type is an active type, not a receptive one.

Of course, I agree. Perhaps the most 'active'.

 

[philostam]

Yeah, I'd be on your page when it comes to ISTP versus INTP.

But couldn't we imagine that rather than being more masculine, Se is more likely to highlight either masculinity or femininity?

So ISTP men would be more masculine on average, but ISFP women would also be more feminine.

Whereas something like the N function would somewhat dilute the masculine/feminine dichotomy.

I know you don't agree about ISFP/INFP, but that's just an idea.

I am not willing to go with that, because again, I consider INTJ more masculine than ISTJ. The same about ENTJ vs ESTJ.

If we define masculine as active (as we did), than there is no question that INTJ is more masculine than ISTJ.

 

[ThomasJ79]

Hmmm, let's then take all the ESFP men in Paris, with their slender bodies and effete manners, and force them into battle against the Spartans at Thermopylae. I look forward to seeing their impulsive, raw, territorial ardour at play!

ESFPs get all the chicks, lol

 

[ThomasJ79]

Is it 'masculine' to be reckless and impulsive? Seems anti-control/mastery to me. In fact, it seems like the very embodiment of the passive/feminine principle. Go with the flow, follow your feelings, enjoy what comes to you, be entertained, &c.

Personally, I don't see 'Se' as 'masculine', though I'm not averse to speculating about the gendered flavour of one function or another.

Let's ask @Ren. Is it le Se, or la?, lol

Jk