Merkabah

[Kgal]

That one time with the “old hag” that entered my apartment a few years ago….I distinctly remember having a dream, then it was like my mind was instantly redirected to her coming down the hallway (again my eyes were closed) that’s when I sat up in my sleep and the same type thing happened….except she threw that clock at me….or maybe it just got Qi blasted too…lol….the difference this time was I rose out of bed, but I knew I wasn’t awake.
So it seems that there is some kind of subconscious warning process that takes place.

Yeh....you're higher Self and your guides were keeping an eye out for you.

 

[Kgal]

Finished copper-leafing and painting…now just for a frame.

(Here are two angles…it’s hard to get a good idea in pictures of the reflective copper)

​

It's really beautiful.... made me want to get lost in it and follow the curves and the lines.... I smiled.

 

[sprinkles]

[MENTION=5045]Skarekrow[/MENTION]

Also I feel like that part of me gained independence and just left somewhere. I feel like it still exists somewhere but not with me. Maybe it got sick of being here and went off on an OBE and never came back.

 

[Tin Man]

[MENTION=5045]Skarekrow[/MENTION]

It's interesting. Certainly well documented and put together. The article that was linked was quite extensive and you could tell they really took it seriously. That they approached it from a scientific standpoint. I also appreciate that they don't just shrug off the skeptics point of view and that they understand how all this can sound to someone who doesn't share their point of view. I think it's certainly a good start for measuring such phenomenon and that it's more likely to be taken seriously by the broader scientific community. It wasn't that long ago that atoms were seen as a fantasy by scientists, and so it's possible that one day this will be seen as the beginning of a new type of science.

All that said, I'm still a bit skeptical of their findings. As they mention in the article, NDEs and OBEs are very difficult to reliably measure. It relies a lot on the subjective viewpoints of the people who experienced them. And the people who are willing to talk about their experiences may be motivated to exaggerate their value. I don't think they're consciously trying to deceive, but they may want to believe there's more behind their experiences than there is. And the writer of the article getting butthurt because his claims are criticized won't change that.

Maybe my stance will change if there's more research and lab based experimentation gone into it, but for now I still maintain a skeptical attitude.

 

[Skarekrow]

@Skarekrow

Also I feel like that part of me gained independence and just left somewhere. I feel like it still exists somewhere but not with me. Maybe it got sick of being here and went off on an OBE and never came back.

So do you think that you don’t go out of body anymore, at all?

@Skarekrow

It's interesting. Certainly well documented and put together. The article that was linked was quite extensive and you could tell they really took it seriously. That they approached it from a scientific standpoint. I also appreciate that they don't just shrug off the skeptics point of view and that they understand how all this can sound to someone who doesn't share their point of view. I think it's certainly a good start for measuring such phenomenon and that it's more likely to be taken seriously by the broader scientific community. It wasn't that long ago that atoms were seen as a fantasy by scientists, and so it's possible that one day this will be seen as the beginning of a new type of science.

All that said, I'm still a bit skeptical of their findings. As they mention in the article, NDEs and OBEs are very difficult to reliably measure. It relies a lot on the subjective viewpoints of the people who experienced them. And the people who are willing to talk about their experiences may be motivated to exaggerate their value. I don't think they're consciously trying to deceive, but they may want to believe there's more behind their experiences than there is. And the writer of the article getting butthurt because his claims are criticized won't change that.

Maybe my stance will change if there's more research and lab based experimentation gone into it, but for now I still maintain a skeptical attitude.

I liked that he had some supposedly verifiable instances recorded and time dated.
If one were to go through all the trouble of trying to verify all his claims it would probably prove difficult.
Still, the ability to go and prove it to yourself exists if one were to take the time to do it which I appreciate.
I also like that he doesn’t make assumptions as to who the dream characters were supposed to be.
This was the article that made me follow up with the question of - How much paranormal activity is actually the product of someone in an OOB state, who is maybe in an unconscious dream state simultaneously...and how much is the result of more classical phenomena explanations?

 

[sprinkles]

So do you think that you don’t go out of body anymore, at all?

I haven't lately. I don't really even dream much anymore. A lot of what I used to have has gone missing.

I don't know if you remember but I had a fragmented personality of sorts which I was trying to unify. Not long ago I had a turning point where a lot of fragments consolidated all of a sudden, but there were some that just went missing. I didn't absorb them back into my consciousness, and I don't feel that they're still hiding in the background. It's like they actually got up and left as if I've split off independent entities.

 

[Skarekrow]

I haven't lately. I don't really even dream much anymore. A lot of what I used to have has gone missing.

I don't know if you remember but I had a fragmented personality of sorts which I was trying to unify. Not long ago I had a turning point where a lot of fragments consolidated all of a sudden, but there were some that just went missing. I didn't absorb them back into my consciousness, and I don't feel that they're still hiding in the background. It's like they actually got up and left as if I've split off independent entities.

Yes, I remembered that...didn’t know if you wanted to bring it up so I didn’t.
I can hardly imagine what that must feel like…lately I haven’t really been remembering my dreams at all…like even those few split seconds before waking it’s just jumbled nonsense it seems by that time.
I think part of not remembering probably has to do with some of the medications that I take…but at least, I get SOME sleep with them.
Do you ever get the impression upon waking up that some serious shit was going down in dreamland?
Like you know what you just dreamt was very important, but you can’t remember it for the life of you?

 

[sprinkles]

Yes, I remembered that...didn’t know if you wanted to bring it up so I didn’t.
I can hardly imagine what that must feel like…lately I haven’t really been remembering my dreams at all…like even those few split seconds before waking it’s just jumbled nonsense it seems by that time.
I think part of not remembering probably has to do with some of the medications that I take…but at least, I get SOME sleep with them.
Do you ever get the impression upon waking up that some serious shit was going down in dreamland?
Like you know what you just dreamt was very important, but you can’t remember it for the life of you?

Lately I haven't been sleep conscious to the point that sleep is like a blink and when I wake up it's hard to even realize that I was ever asleep.

 

[Skarekrow]

Lately I haven't been sleep conscious to the point that sleep is like a blink and when I wake up it's hard to even realize that I was ever asleep.

Gotcha…
Yeah…I have a definite cycle that I go through at night…usually go to bed between 9 and 11…around 330 I wake up to get water use restroom…then if I’m lucky I can sort of doze in and out until 7ish when I am forced to get up by my body.
The first part of the night though seems to be the time when if something significant happens, this is when it does.
If it was particularly intense then I will remember it until morning (which would make a dream journal helpful…the idea of doing it just seems sucky), but that is rare.
Have you tried the double sleep cycle?
Where you get up for a couple hours in the middle of the night…you know what I mean right?

 

[sprinkles]

Gotcha…
Yeah…I have a definite cycle that I go through at night…usually go to bed between 9 and 11…around 330 I wake up to get water use restroom…then if I’m lucky I can sort of doze in and out until 7ish when I am forced to get up by my body.
The first part of the night though seems to be the time when if something significant happens, this is when it does.
If it was particularly intense then I will remember it until morning (which would make a dream journal helpful…the idea of doing it just seems sucky), but that is rare.
Have you tried the double sleep cycle?
Where you get up for a couple hours in the middle of the night…you know what I mean right?

Yeah I've done that before but lately I've been trying to let my body do what it feels it needs to do.

 

[Skarekrow]

Yeh....you're higher Self and your guides were keeping an eye out for you.

Something….remember when I told you that dream about the huge, imposing, black guy, who showed me how to reach out to objects and move them?
I think that was instruction…for just this type of thing.
Now I wonder who he is to me?
He is not the same person who gave me my bird…I could not see that person’s face…I just knew he/it? was huge.

 

[Tin Man]

I liked that he had some supposedly verifiable instances recorded and time dated.
If one were to go through all the trouble of trying to verify all his claims it would probably prove difficult.
Still, the ability to go and prove it to yourself exists if one were to take the time to do it which I appreciate.
I also like that he doesn’t make assumptions as to who the dream characters were supposed to be.
This was the article that made me follow up with the question of - How much paranormal activity is actually the product of someone in an OOB state, who is maybe in an unconscious dream state simultaneously...and how much is the result of more classical phenomena explanations?

Yeah, I thought it was a good article. He didn't try to ignore the problems involved in such research or reject the scientific viewpoint.

I can understand him being a bit sensitive to his critics, but it's the skeptics who will be most instrumental in getting his ideas accepted by a larger audience. It was because of Einstein's continuous attacks on the Copenhagen interpretation, that the likes of Bohr and Heisenberg were able to refine their argument more and more. It was also because of Thomas Huxley, one of Darwin's biggest critic, that the theory of evolution became so widely accepted.

 

[Tin Man]

I haven't lately. I don't really even dream much anymore. A lot of what I used to have has gone missing.

I don't know if you remember but I had a fragmented personality of sorts which I was trying to unify. Not long ago I had a turning point where a lot of fragments consolidated all of a sudden, but there were some that just went missing. I didn't absorb them back into my consciousness, and I don't feel that they're still hiding in the background. It's like they actually got up and left as if I've split off independent entities.

I can sort of identify with that. There was an event that happened when I was younger that caused me to almost split from who I was. The person before that seemed to be gone. I didn't dream, lost interest in many things and became less interested in people. I wasn't depressed or anything, it was just that I lost a lot of the person who was there before it happened. For me it was less as if different identities had split off and more a previous identity had died and a new one emerged from it.

It feels really weird to talk about it. I tend to keep it in the "stuff that i really don't want to think about because of what it might imply" box.

 

[sprinkles]

I can sort of identify with that. There was an event that happened when I was younger that caused me to almost split from who I was. The person before that seemed to be gone. I didn't dream, lost interest in many things and became less interested in people. I wasn't depressed or anything, it was just that I lost a lot of the person who was there before it happened. For me it was less as if different identities had split off and more a previous identity had died and a new one emerged from it.

It feels really weird to talk about it. I tend to keep it in the "stuff that i really don't want to think about because of what it might imply" box.

It's not unusual and it happens way more often than people think.

 

[Tin Man]

It's not unusual and it happens way more often than people think.

Really? I've read a few cases of it, such as the author's experience in Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. And I've come across it in fiction - Murakami discussed it The Colorless Tsukuru Tazaki.

But that's about it; I didn't think it was exactly common.

 

[sprinkles]

Really? I've read a few cases of it, such as the author's experience in Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. And I've come across it in fiction - Murakami discussed it The Colorless Tsukuru Tazaki.

But that's about it; I didn't think it was exactly common.

People can have it happen and not know it. Even going so far as to insist that nothing has changed. But you can see it.

 

[Tin Man]

People can have it happen and not know it. Even going so far as to insist that nothing has changed. But you can see it.

Yeah, I can understand that. It's difficult to accept that such a change has happened.

You seem to know a bit about it. Is there somewhere you can learn more or read other people's experiences?

 

[sprinkles]

Yeah, I can understand that. It's difficult to accept that such a change has happened.

You seem to know a bit about it. Is there somewhere you can learn more or read other people's experiences?

I don't know of any current sources. This concept is tenuously accepted at best and often treated as an illness where it is accepted.

 

[Tin Man]

I don't know of any current sources. This concept is tenuously accepted at best and often treated as an illness where it is accepted.

Ok, thanks anyway. I was just curious.

I don't think I'm mentally ill, but with a psychiatric system that wants to treat rape and grief as psychological disorders, I'd probably be diagnosed as such anyway.

 

[sprinkles]

Ok, thanks anyway. I was just curious.

I don't think I'm mentally ill, but with a psychiatric system that wants to treat rape and grief as psychological disorders, I'd probably be diagnosed as such anyway.

And even worse it can cause you to be ill when you were not.