Mind vs. spirit vs. soul

And another good quote by a Quantum Physicist -

"In the beginning there were only probabilities.
The universe could only come into existence if someone observed it.
It does not matter that the observers turned up several billion years later.
The universe exists because we are aware of it."


~ Martin Rees
 
And another good quote by a Quantum Physicist -

"In the beginning there were only probabilities.
The universe could only come into existence if someone observed it.
It does not matter that the observers turned up several billion years later.
The universe exists because we are aware of it."


~ Martin Rees

The crazy thing is that we're not the only thing observing.

Schrodinger's Cat was a clever idea, but Schrodinger actually got it wrong in that the cat is either alive or dead before the box is opened. There's no paradox because the observation is made by the geiger counter that activates the poison and therefore the cat's fate is sealed before the cat even dies. The activation of the geiger counter ensures that the cat will either be dead or not dead before the box is opened.
 
There is some pretty good data out there that our minds are not just confined to the brain within our head.
The problem is the taboo within the mainstream scientific “materialist” has historically been career suicide even though the results say there is something going on.
The second problem is there is no good explanation or good working theory on how the mind/brain interact with our universe.
It is just as likely that the brain is a receiver of information (soul) which IMO is the individual representation of (spirit).
Just as we can damage or rewire a radio or TV and it will change how it behaves does not effect the signal being received and interpreted through it.
You can take out the picture tubes of an old TV and get no picture…you can damage or sever connections to the occipital region of the brain and get no visual picture…but the signal hitting the back of the eye is still there.

"When the province of physical theory was extended to encompass microscopic phenomena through the creation of quantum mechanics, the concept of consciousness came to the fore again. It was not possible to formulate the laws of quantum mechanics in a fully consistent way without reference to the consciousness."
~Eugene Wigner

Right, and even if we don't take in the possibility of an external signal, there's still no getting around the fact that the process of thought and being is still some kind of signal, even if the brain is sending the signal to itself.

Without the signal you go kaput.
 
Soul is who you really are, soul is YOU. You can't exist without it. It's your individuality in this universe, where as Spirit is like a soul in universal form. Spirit comes within the soul, it's how the soul wants to express itself and it's also link back to the universe.

Mind is your human consciousness and thoughts.

So if you are brain dead are you still "you?"
 
The crazy thing is that we're not the only thing observing.

Schrodinger's Cat was a clever idea, but Schrodinger actually got it wrong in that the cat is either alive or dead before the box is opened. There's no paradox because the observation is made by the geiger counter that activates the poison and therefore the cat's fate is sealed before the cat even dies. The activation of the geiger counter ensures that the cat will either be dead or not dead before the box is opened.

Ive thought the same. And its not that the Geiger counter observed anything. Its the events that lead up to it. Someone studied a star and that star gave off energy that effected the counter and the million things that happened between.
 
I cannot attempt to define the difference. Much like Justice Stewart's test for what constitutes obscenity/pornography, I can only say I know it when I see (or feel it).
 
So if you are brain dead are you still "you?"

Yes, because soul which is "you" never dies... Even if body dies. But I understand if people believe differently in these things. Just because I believe in something, it doesn't mean it's the whole truth, just belief.
 
So if you are brain dead are you still "you?"

I think the answer depends on not just whether you believe in the soul, but in the immortality of the unique soul. Certain religions hold to something like a well of souls theory where the identity of the individual human spirit dissipates in a mass or essence of soul either to remain that way or to reincarnate.
 
Yes, because soul which is "you" never dies... Even if body dies. But I understand if people believe differently in these things. Just because I believe in something, it doesn't mean it's the whole truth, just belief.

A belief is only a thought that you keep thinking. Doesn't mean anything when one person believes something and another doesn't. From my perspective everything is the result of perception and how we roll our perceptions into how we perceive things in the future. Really I think most people are just a series of reactions. Whether there is some static essence underneath it all that acts like an anchor or some fundamental baseline, I don't know. It could be true but it could also not be true.

Personally I believe the mind acts as an interpretation of what the body perceives. It translates everything around us and within us into thought and feeling which drives physical action. It's hard for me to imagine that each person has an individual soul that is unique to who they are. It makes better sense to think of the soul as being an extension of Source energy which is present in us and it keeps us interconnected with ourselves, each other and everything else that exists. Afterall everything that exists far and wide is made up of the same building blocks of life and somehow we materialized into what we are. I think that the fact that we exist at all is pretty crazy and an expression of Soul but it's hard for me to imagine that there are individual separate little souls for each person given the nature of the Universe.
 
I think the answer depends on not just whether you believe in the soul, but in the immortality of the unique soul. Certain religions hold to something like a well of souls theory where the identity of the individual human spirit dissipates in a mass or essence of soul either to remain that way or to reincarnate.

I kind of explained my thoughts in the response above.
 
I kind of explained my thoughts in the response above.

I get that. I understand your belief about beliefs. I just thought you succinctly posed a question that can have multiple and interesting answers depending on the leanings of one's beliefs.
 
A belief is only a thought that you keep thinking. Doesn't mean anything when one person believes something and another doesn't. From my perspective everything is the result of perception and how we roll our perceptions into how we perceive things in the future. Really I think most people are just a series of reactions. Whether there is some static essence underneath it all that acts like an anchor or some fundamental baseline, I don't know. It could be true but it could also not be true.

Personally I believe the mind acts as an interpretation of what the body perceives. It translates everything around us and within us into thought and feeling which drives physical action. It's hard for me to imagine that each person has an individual soul that is unique to who they are. It makes better sense to think of the soul as being an extension of Source energy which is present in us and it keeps us interconnected with ourselves, each other and everything else that exists. Afterall everything that exists far and wide is made up of the same building blocks of life and somehow we materialized into what we are. I think that the fact that we exist at all is pretty crazy and an expression of Soul but it's hard for me to imagine that there are individual separate little souls for each person given the nature of the Universe.

Good points raised about perception. I personally think that what we perceive is sensory, and is then transmitted to the mind for processing thinking and intellect. Pretty much what I said in my first post here, although I am only interested in the existence of them, which is why I think the spirit and the soul are sub-theories developed from the mind (and backed up and adapted by Religious belief systems).
 
I get that. I understand your belief about beliefs. I just thought you succinctly posed a question that can have multiple and interesting answers depending on the leanings of one's beliefs.

I would be interested to hear what others think on the matter. If the mind is separate from the body and the soul is also separate, then how do they work together? It makes more sense that each serves the other and they function through each other and are uniquely interconnected and in tandem with each other. If the mind is dead, but the soul is "you" but there is no way for the soul to interact, perceive or receive any kind of stimulus because the mind cannot translate data it doesn't make sense that it is "you." If the soul is its own separate entity from the body and mind that means that we're wandering around this Earth bumping into each other like idiots. That means that we are not actually interacting with each other at all and we are just exchanging electrical impulses and reactions because each entity is supposedly separate from each other. That would also seemingly absolve us of all guilt and sin and basically kind of responsibility.

Can the soul be "good" if the mind and body are not? And if that is true, what man has any right to dictate to the other what is and is not good, moral, ethical, acceptable, etc?

For me, allowing the "Soul" to actually be "you" and therefore separate from mind and body poses a lot of problems.
 
A belief is only a thought that you keep thinking. Doesn't mean anything when one person believes something and another doesn't. From my perspective everything is the result of perception and how we roll our perceptions into how we perceive things in the future. Really I think most people are just a series of reactions. Whether there is some static essence underneath it all that acts like an anchor or some fundamental baseline, I don't know. It could be true but it could also not be true.

Personally I believe the mind acts as an interpretation of what the body perceives. It translates everything around us and within us into thought and feeling which drives physical action. It's hard for me to imagine that each person has an individual soul that is unique to who they are. It makes better sense to think of the soul as being an extension of Source energy which is present in us and it keeps us interconnected with ourselves, each other and everything else that exists. Afterall everything that exists far and wide is made up of the same building blocks of life and somehow we materialized into what we are. I think that the fact that we exist at all is pretty crazy and an expression of Soul but it's hard for me to imagine that there are individual separate little souls for each person given the nature of the Universe.

Yeah, you maybe right... I agree soul is extension to Source energy, I just think soul becomes individual when it's separated from the Source for some period of time... But that's just me. I don't have much to add, I think.
 
Yeah, you maybe right... I agree soul is extension to Source energy, I just think soul becomes individual when it's separated from the Source for some period of time... But that's just me. I don't have much to add, I think.

I feel like it would be more accurate to say that the soul is a reflection of source which is broken out individually like a light through a prism. There are different colours and variations depending on how/where the light hits and allows for "individuality." But nothing is separate. It's all just an expression.
 
I feel like it would be more accurate to say that the soul is a reflection of source which is broken out individually like a light through a prism. There are different colours and variations depending on how/where the light hits and allows for "individuality." But nothing is separate. It's all just an expression.

Yeah... I have a bit of problem of explaining everything in a way what I really mean, so scatter-brained, eh... But yes, that sounds better, the soul can't be separated of the source if it's part of it and same energy... I don't know even what to believe, honestly.
 
Yeah... I have a bit of problem of explaining everything in a way what I really mean, so scatter-brained, eh... But yes, that sounds better, the soul can't be separated of the source if it's part of it and same energy... I don't know even what to believe, honestly.

The nice thing about it all is that there's no wrong answer. We can only believe whatever information we have been exposed to. Beliefs should always be evolving anyway.
 
The nice thing about it all is that there's no wrong answer. We can only believe whatever information we have been exposed to. Beliefs should always be evolving anyway.

Yeah, it's good to be open-minded and try to think in different perspective.
 
From an Eastern perspective….the following describes the difference between body, mind, individual soul and Universal Soul/Supersoul (spirit is the Yang/Purusha/father principle and matter or form is Yin/Prakriti/Mother [mater in Latin]).


Koshas - The Five Sheaths that Wrap Your Soul

http://fractalenlightenment.com/33744/spirituality/koshas-the-five-sheaths-that-wrap-your-soul

According to ancient texts, every one of us have energetic layers or sheaths known as ‘Koshas’ that move from the periphery of the body towards the core of the self: the embodied soul. Each layer represents an aspect of our personality.

The koshas provide a framework for conceptualizing ourselves. As we go deeper by way of meditation and other spiritual practices, we peel the layers away one by one like peeling the layers of an onion, to bring our awareness deeper into our bodies, eventually reaching the innermost core, our True Self.

Each layer is an outcome of the energy it feeds on. Starting from the outermost layer, Annamaya kosha is made up of food, Pranamaya Kosha is made up of Prana energy, Manomaya Kosha is formed with the mental thoughts, Vijanamaya Kosha is formed with wisdom and knowledge and the last most significant layer, Anandamaya Kosha is experienced as eternal bliss. Let us understand these layers and their working in detail.

1) Annamaya Kosha, the Food Body
“The infinite is Brahman. From it, from this SELF, space came to be; from space the wind; from the wind, fire; from fire, water; from water, earth; from earth, the plants; from plants, the food; and from food, the body of man. This body of man, composed of the essence of food is the physical sheath of the Self.” ~ Taittiriya Upanishad (2.1)

‘Anna’ means ‘Food’ and ‘Maya’ means ‘made of’ (or projected from), Annamaya Kosha is made up of the food we consume and represents the physical body – skin, muscles, bones, tendons and tissues. The physical identity of a man often consumes him and leads to ignorance. For most people awareness and observation of themselves doesn’t go beyond the level of ‘Annamaya kosha.’ The primary way to impact this kosha is through asanas – this teaches us to go beyond the physical dimension, to be able to feel your body and sense it from within. Once you become more aware about your body, you will feel more grounded and present in the moment.

2) Pranamaya Kosha, the Energy Body
Shvetashvatara Upanishad states, “Man and woman, beast and bird live by breath. Breath is therefore called the true sign of life. It is the vital force in everyone that determines how long we are to live. Those who look upon breath as the Lord’s gift shall live to complete the full span of life.”

After an intense session of yoga, meditation or any type of spiritual work, you might feel waves of energy flowing in your body, you are in contact with the vital energy body or Pranamaya Kosha. Prana or chi moves through the body in a network of energy pathways or nadis. It governs the movement of blood, fluids, digestion, respiration, etc.

Holding the body and mind together as one unit, the vital force is of crucial importance in functioning of the heart & lungs. When it ceases to function your physical body can no longer operate. Conscious breathing or types of Pranayama like alternate nostril, abdominal breathing can increase prana into our system and tone the energy body.

3) Manomaya Kosha, the Mental body

Manomaya Kosha is made up of thought processes, feelings, actions, and our day-to-day sensory impulses and stimulation. It takes care of our instinctual needs, plus it also helps us obtain our individual desires.

Every night when we sleep, Manomaya Kosha shuts down temporarily and regenerates itself. Usually animals operate at this level and even human beings in a state of coma. When in coma, we can observe that the first and second layers are working actively but due to the shutdown of the mental body (third layer) there is no movement.

When you examine the contents of the Manomaya kosha closely, you can often see the patterns, which take the form of repetitive thoughts, in your life in terms of perceptions, reactions and opinions in life. Mantra meditation is a great way to refine and balance this kosha; focused breathing and being centered completely in the present moment will enhance the health of Manomaya Kosha.

The external environment is another significant factor in building & functioning of this layer. When we subject ourselves to constantly positive and happy thoughts, we feed this layer with good vibes. But if we feed it with negative actions and thoughts, it leaves us feeling exhausted.

4) Vijnanamaya Kosha, the Wisdom body (also referred to as the 'Intellect' in the East)
Shvetashvatara Upanishad states “Within the mental sheath, made up of waves of thoughts, there is contained the sheath of wisdom. It has the same form, with faith as head, righteousness as right arm and truth as left. Practice of meditation is its heart, and discrimination its foundation. Wisdom means a life of selfless service. Even the gods seek spiritual wisdom. Those who attain wisdom are freed from sin, and find all their selfless desires granted.”

Only after removing the blockages in the three lower koshas can we experience deeper insight of Vijnanamaya Kosha or the wisdom body. This layer is composed of intuition, awareness, intellect and conscience. It’s when you stop identifying with your thoughts and simply witness your mind. Instead of simply feeling or acting, you choose to feel or act with intention. Vijnanamaya allows us to step back from our current situation and view it from a better perspective; its this sense of inner knowing that comes from the wisdom body.

A person who has an underdeveloped fourth body would be weak in decision making, lack creativity and will have a poor sense of judgement. In Ashtanga Yoga, the practice of Niyamas (not to steal, speak truth, self study, devotion to god, etc.) and yamas (five restraints include Non-Violence, Truth, Honesty, Continence and non-possession), allows us to refine this layer. By way of mantra chanting and meditation too, Vijanamaya Kosha can be experienced.

5) Anandamaya Kosha, the Bliss Body
The inner most layer, right outside your true self (center of consciousness), is Anandamaya Kosha or the bliss body. Its the awareness of being whole and complete, exactly as you are; happiness and joy is your natural state.

It is the final layer standing between individual consciousness and universal oneness; a testimony of the love between Shiva and Shakti. This bliss state is usually experienced in fleeting moments, but can remain for longer periods. It is experienced in those moments when you are fully immersed in that which you are doing, or in a state of deep meditation.

Shvetashvatara Upanishad states “Within it is contained the sheath of bliss, which has the same form, with joy as the head, contentment as right arm, and delight the left. Bliss is the heart, and Brahman the foundation.”

In order to activate this sheath, a deeper level of knowledge, detachment and dedication is required. We experience different layers at different times. Yoga, Pranayama and Mediation when practiced on a regular basis, helps us to balance these bodies subtly and experience our multidimensional nature.

When we practice moderate exercise we activate the outermost layer. With the help of breathing practices, we awaken the Pranamaya Kosha. In a meditative state, we activate the Manomaya Kosha. Furthermore, the intelligent & logical self that is commanding us right now to sit in a place and meditate, needs to be acknowledged and sensed. This acceptance would activate the Vijananamaya Kosha. Finally only after complete realization of the former layers, do we get to access Anandamaya Kosha – the dimension of bliss, wholeness, contentment.

In yoga texts, the five sheaths are combined into three – the physical body (annamaya kosha) is also called, “gross body.” The three middle sheaths (pranamaya, manomaya, and vijnanamaya koshas) collectively comprise the realm of the “subtle/astral body”. The anandamaya kosha is also called “causal body.” (The subtle body gets impressions and karma put upon it throughout our life and is what moves on from one physical body to the next as a caterpillar moves from one grass blade to the next. The state of the next physical body is the result of these impressions and karma. When the subtle body becomes totally empty of impressions through yoga and spiritual practice, the causal body merges back with the Absolute).

As you become more aware and conscious in all of the koshas, you will build a deeper connection with your own ‘self’ that is hidden and shrouded in different layers developed over the years. Yoga has the power to awaken us to our body of bliss!
 
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The crazy thing is that we're not the only thing observing.

Schrodinger's Cat was a clever idea, but Schrodinger actually got it wrong in that the cat is either alive or dead before the box is opened. There's no paradox because the observation is made by the geiger counter that activates the poison and therefore the cat's fate is sealed before the cat even dies. The activation of the geiger counter ensures that the cat will either be dead or not dead before the box is opened.

Well, it was a thought experiment that lead to alternate and I would say indispensable lines of thinking and experimentation.
Perhaps the cat dies the moment you are aware the cat is even in the box? *shrug*
Hehe

Right, and even if we don't take in the possibility of an external signal, there's still no getting around the fact that the process of thought and being is still some kind of signal, even if the brain is sending the signal to itself.

Without the signal you go kaput.

Exactly, and people don’t seem to understand just how spread out your thinking process is.
(you probably know this but I will reiterate it for the thread)
There are more Neurons in your bowels than are in your brain (not to mention that your brain goes all the way down your back in your spinal cord).
There are Neurons in your heart, and your heart actually sends three times as many signals to the brain as the brain sends to the heart.
We all have a measurable electromagnetic field around us, they have done many experiments that show we are aware of the field on an unconscious level (via fMRI imaging).
A Mother and her infant child’s hearts will actually sync up when they are within 5 ft or closer to one another in many cases.
There is far more then we could ever even imagine going on on an unconscious level.
There is even a line of thinking (that stretches back to Plato) that believes that the mind actually projects our reality and that’s what makes it so.
Very fun to think of such things for me.
 
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