misogyny around the US

[alice144]

I hate how people want to highlight misogyny, and completely ignore mens issues. Its as if women were born weak and need the world to constanty remind us of it.

That's a little bit unfair. Men's issues are important too. And if you feel so strongly about them, why not set up a discussion topic of your own?

As a woman, I am biased to considered the social world from a feminist standpoint. I'm glad you all are pitching in with your own opinions, but mostly I have to go on my own experiences, which have all been necessarily colored by my gender.

 

[Hybrid88]

I apologize for derailing your thread with my unpopular viewpoint on sexism. I just felt compelled to express my opinion on the matter. I guess the reason why guys don't post threads on men's issues, is due to fear of being shunned for it. Men are not to be viewed as victims of society. That is a position exclusively held by women.

 

[CindyLou]

Well, this isn't always an "abusive" behavior pattern. It very well can be of course! but, it's not hte exclusive domain of abusers. Think of a "super competitive guy who sees overcoming a strong or very direct woman as a challenge"
Personally, I don't get it, but I had a friend once who really enjoyed dating "powerful" women, and finding out what absolutley drove them wild in bed. He would then play off this in a sort of playful teasing manner... of course, this is all 2nd and 3rd party feedback i heard, but, i did hear it from both sides (him and the girl), on more than one occassion. One girl actually admitted over drinks that she would likely do just about anything to get another night like the previous (she was pretty buzzed by this point!) I don't remember much else, as my buddy was the "playboy" type, and i'm the "relationship" type... and I believe I was somewhat uncomfortable and just excused myself for the rest of the evening.

Anyway, point is there is one real life example of a guy who was into that... who I'm pretty darn sure wouldn't hurt a fly (playful/sensitive/lusty/sensual was his speed, not aggressive/violent/dysfunctional/etc) He just loved to find out what made a girl "tick", and then loved exploring that at his whim.

Nuff said, u get the point i'm sure.

-E

I meant that any misogynist is abusive, not men that enjoy a challenge. I agree.

 

[CindyLou]

Unfortunately, my mom attracts them like a magnet, so I know all too well that they exist today. They wait for a weak minded woman who sends off desperate signals, and then they pursue her relentlessly. They take advantage of her gullibility, telling her all sorts of far-fetched lies so she won't leave even when they treat her like crap.

It scares me how many men like this there apparently are. I can't go out in public with my mom without all kinds of men hitting on her, and I've come to distrust any man that approaches her because of past precedent, and because anyone who would be attracted to such a weak woman only wants to take advantage of her.

What vibe do you suppose she gives off that she is weak? I've noticed this about myself, and often controlling men who hate women will approach and hit on me. Afterwards they discover that I am not weak, but I still get the same types. Controlling, abusive men approach me. Its totally bizarre. I don't know why I seem so weak.

 

[CindyLou]

I dated a guy that once said to me "You are rebellious."

I said "What? How can I be rebellious? You'd have to be my authority for me to rebel against you. I'm just telling you No."

He seemed confused and responded..."But I am your authority. Are you not my girlfriend?"

Turns out he hated his mother, and all of his sisters. He just hates women in general, a way of thinking passed down to him by his father.

Its not that he consciously hates women, he just thinks of us like objects; not really humans even though I do believe he feels something that looks like love towards us... his thinking was totally warped.

 

[the]

I dated a guy that once said to me "You are rebellious."

I said "What? How can I be rebellious? You'd have to be my authority for me to rebel against you. I'm just telling you No."

He seemed confused and responded..."But I am your authority. Are you not my girlfriend?"

Turns out he hated his mother, and all of his sisters. He just hates women in general, a way of thinking passed down to him by his father.

Its not that he consciously hates women, he just thinks of us like objects; not really humans even though I do believe he feels something that looks like love towards us... his thinking was totally warped.

I think it is funny (in a stupid way of funniness of course) that people think they own a girlfriend. As if the status of girlfriend has any weight behind it. He didnt even put a ring on that finger I assume. haha the gall!

 

[Billy]

As a feminist, I am biased to considered the social world from a feminist standpoint.

Fixed it for you.

 

[Billy]

What vibe do you suppose she gives off that she is weak? I've noticed this about myself, and often controlling men who hate women will approach and hit on me. Afterwards they discover that I am not weak, but I still get the same types. Controlling, abusive men approach me. Its totally bizarre. I don't know why I seem so weak.

Maybe they don't hate women, maybe they're just controlling people in general. I know plenty of men who are controlling of women... and their male friends/family, dogs, pets, cars, businesses, etc etc.

 

[ENT8]

I dated a guy that once said to me "You are rebellious."

I said "What? How can I be rebellious? You'd have to be my authority for me to rebel against you. I'm just telling you No."

He seemed confused and responded..."But I am your authority. Are you not my girlfriend?"

Turns out he hated his mother, and all of his sisters. He just hates women in general, a way of thinking passed down to him by his father.

Its not that he consciously hates women, he just thinks of us like objects; not really humans even though I do believe he feels something that looks like love towards us... his thinking was totally warped.

First of all, your post is on topic and on point and I see nothing in it to "debate"... it sounds like he's a total loser.

But this does offer up consideration of another "crux" issue in my opinion:

When is misogyny (or any form of sexism) an "evil" that should be addressed for what it appears to be... or when it is really more of the "symptom" of an underlying destructive dysfunction that has "choosen" to express itself in the form of an "elitist" attitude?

For example... I know of one person who was black, and did experience a very damaging situation involving racism. Turns out he was a real investment banking rock star. Ivy league, top notch financial and economic insights, high level of experience, and a track record of success that was 2nd to none. However, after a period of time (I believe 2-3 years)... the terms of his employment that he had agreed to work under were suddenly altered by his employer. He was due a bonus in excess of 10 million dollars that year. However, they refused to pay it, and refused to promote him to an executive position that had recently opened up, and when he questioned the issue, was told by his superiors that...

"well, you see, $5 million in one year and your current position in the company are really quite good for a young black man such as yourself to have. Best to be content with what you have, and we'll discuss a promotion or re-instating your initial pay package at a later date"

He quit. He sued. He won. He started his own firm. His new firm DWARFS the success of the company he was previously employed with. score 1 for the good guys.

THIS, right here, IMO, is a very clear example of genuine racism. These people who ran his place of former employment were literally willing and able to prevent the most capable employee who has ever walked through the door from acheiving what he not only could do, but actually had already EARNED. Furthermore, they stood to gain a great deal by keeping him happy and honoring the original contract, but in spite of what they stood to gain, they held him back anyway because they fundamentally believed that a young black man did not deserve to be the best he could be. period.

This, IMO is actually entirely different from...lets say, a "cat call", or a comment like "you fired me?? wow, you've got a lot of balls for a broad! you can't fire me, because I QUIT you bitch!"

Both of these examples are likely offensive, unrefined, and maybe even rediculous. But, are they really "sexism?" or, is there just an "immature" and overly outgoing and uninvited expression of "hey, I think your hot, and would be happy to have sex with you!" Ok, that's rude, and it may be offensive... but, is it degrading? Maybe...but it could be interpreted differently. Furthermore, is he expressing himself in such a way that means "I am a man, you are a woman, therefore I am better than you, and/or you don't deserve to have or be who you are because you are a woman"

I would tend to say no, I don't think he feels that way. At very least, there is no reasonable way I can determine from this one isolated incident that he in any way believes he is better or that women are somehow worse or deserve less than him.

Yet, many would call this sexism. But lets say for a minute he were a gay man.... and he was bold enough to whistle down from his construction site to a man that was walking below that he felt was hot. Is this sexism? It's the same thing, and lets assume the same motivation... I can't see how this could be sexism... but what's the difference?

Now, lets take the 2nd example, the guy who gets fired and flips out. Again... is this a sexist man? Maybe... it's more likley than the cat caller anyway, but maybe he's just a pissed off guy who lost control. Maybe it wouldn't matter if she was a woman. Had she been black, he would have called her a nigger. had she been fat, he would have called her a fat ass. had she been a male, and an older white anglo saxon protestant at that (an older male WASP)... he would have called him a blind old dumbfuck..

Again, here we have a situation where someone is clearly using "sexist language", and there is no question it is derogetory.... that's not questionable like our first example of the cat call...

but, does he really believe he is superior to women or that women on the whole deserve less than men? or, does he just hate his situation and his former boss, and is acting out aggressively.

He is absolutly in the wrong, and depending on the situation, may even be comitting a crime of some sort. but is he a misogynest? or even a sexist? Maybe he's just a prick who flips out at anyone in some crude and insensitive manner if they do anything that he doesn't like.

I think intentions and motivations have a great deal to do with sexism, and any other form of "ism"...

Thoughts? agreements? disagreements? Is sexism (or any other ism) too broadly interpreted?

-E

 

[ENT8]

Maybe they don't hate women, maybe they're just controlling people in general. I know plenty of men who are controlling of women... and their male friends/family, dogs, pets, cars, businesses, etc etc.

Damn. that was my whole point. well, maybe if we both ask the question in two different ways it's more likley someone will address this. It seems that you and I agree on this issue though. Lots of "isms" may not actually be "isms", but just dysfunctions and negative reactionary behavior.

 

[acd]

When I hear the word 'misogyny' I think of young females being forced to have cliterodectomies, cultures and religions where women are held responsible for men's actions (such as inciting lusts just by showing their face or hair in public); telling women who have been raped that they "asked for it" because they dressed/acted a certain way...war torn countries with rape epidemics--where the women have to invent something called, "Rape-axe condoms" to defend themselves,
states that pass laws prohibiting a woman to decide whether she wants to give birth or not...states that want to shut down women's health centers, income inequality between the sexes--where both parties are equally qualified and in the same position.. Cultural/institutional/legislative things like that.

The most salient misogyny in the US that I see, is the influx of anti-choice legislation being proposed and passed in states.... the militant effort to shut down women's health clinics (Planned Parenthood), and the creepy belief that a fetus is entitled to more rights than the woman carrying it (See Personhood movement.)



And for the men here who feel that they aren't getting enough attention and sympathy--I'm sorry your mom was domineering and you have a complex, now.. So let's hear about how persecuted you are in the world.. god forbid anyone bring up the subject that women may still have some shit to handle.. Why don't you write a sad blog about it or perhaps actually make a "Men's Rights" thread.....?

 

[Apone]

I'm really not sure about women, but I do think that men's thinking has shifted and they are far more concerned about changing themselves to get women to like them than they ever were before. Once you give women a certain degree of power in society, the fact that they're no longer dependent on men (and vice versa) means that men who would have easily been able to get married say 50 years ago are probably struggling or have resigned themselves to living alone. Couple that with the economic situation and lack of well-paying unskilled labor jobs, and you have a social climate where the only thing that people actually need from each other is sex (assuming porn/masturbation isn't enough for you) or if so desired, a second parent-- and everything else you could get from a relationship could come from just about anyone (including a pet) or anything else.

My father's approach to my parents' marriage and my approach to relationships has to be light years apart... there's absolutely no way that I would ever be able to get away with what he gets away with... not that I have any desire to, mind you.

Still, I think that once you remove dependence/specific roles from a relationship, you're going to end up with bitterness, competition, resentment, etc. Not that it didn't exist in the 'good old days', but I do think that both sexes were more likely to just accept their responsibilities within a marriage/relationship because 'that is what women/men do'.

I suppose that you could always work out ways in which you could co-operate, but without a planned system that both parties agree on (which in itself is a difficult thing to reach, and even when it's reached, there are things that could cause it to break down), it's going to be tough going.

I'm not saying this because I'm anti-woman or anti-feminist either-- I support women's right to the same degree of consideration/ opportunity by employers... I wouldn't go so far as to say they need affirmative action or to impose quotas on hiring like some companies have, but I do think that gender should be irrelevant and qualifications/abilities should be the only consideration. But yeah, I do think that equality means fewer and less stable relationships, more rejection, and more hostility between the sexes.

 

[acd]

My partner and I are egalitarian. We split the bills and housework... We both talk decisions over.. And our relationship is stable and very satisfying. We are capable of going it alone, but choose to live interdependently...It's the best relationship I've ever been in, and I've lived with an older man who paid for everything and made all the decisions while I was expected to behave a certain way.. Definitely not stable or satisfying. In short, @Apone Personally, I don't think you know what you're talking about..

 

[Apone]

My partner and I are egalitarian. We split the bills and housework... We both talk decisions over.. And our relationship is stable and very satisfying. We are capable of going it alone, but choose to live interdependently...It's the best relationship I've ever been in, and I've lived with an older man who paid for everything and made all the decisions while I was expected to behave a certain way.. Definitely not stable or satisfying. In short, @Apone Personally, I don't think you know what you're talking about..

There is nothing in what you just said that contradicts anything that I just said.

 

[acd]

There is nothing in what you just said that contradicts anything that I just said.

But yeah, I do think that equality means fewer and less stable relationships, more rejection, and more hostility between the sexes.

Maybe you have a point if people are insecure about themselves..
It seems to me like insecure men require women who are not their "equals."

Equality arouses the hostility of those who are insecure and afraid their power will be usurped.
And I don't think that is typical of most men, either..just the ones with issues.



Isn't it better to be with someone because you want to be with someone, rather than because you are stuck being dependent on them??

 

[Apone]

Maybe you have a point if people are insecure about themselves..
It seems to me like insecure men require women who are not their "equals."

Equality arouses the hostility of those who are insecure and afraid their power will be usurped.
And I don't think that is typical of most men, either..just the ones with issues.

I'm not sure if its as simple as just being insecure-- we're basically in a transitional phase and a lot of men were raised by parents who had completely different expectations of what men and women are supposed to be like... and the media caters to and profits from those expectations as well. Equal opportunity objectification is omnipresent... you really can't fault people for not being able to push past the myths when they're practically everywhere, constantly being reinforced.

I also don't think that either gender is always willing to treat their relationships as learning experiences or are willing to let go of their assumptions about other people so easily... because the alternatives mean that they don't have to. I also don't think that people are always willing to do what it takes to actually understand other people unless they're immediately on a perfectly identical wavelength that basically just reinforces their own perspective...

I'm not taking sides here, just saying that it could be that some men are willing to treat women as equals but don't for fear of appearing less-than-masculine... and therefore less desirable, less 'normal', etc... and straddling the line between masculine and 'equal' is more difficult than you might think. Sometimes they're willing to learn you just have to step up and show them the way-- the problem being that not too many women find that attractive and to be honest I don't even think people are able to describe either what they want from other people or who they want themselves to be.

 

[acd]

I'm not sure if its as simple as just being insecure-- we're basically in a transitional phase and a lot of men were raised by parents who had completely different expectations of what men and women are supposed to be like... and the media caters to and profits from those expectations as well. Equal opportunity objectification is omnipresent... you really can't fault people for not being able to push past the myths when they're practically everywhere, constantly being reinforced.

I also don't think that either gender is always willing to treat their relationships as learning experiences or are willing to let go of their assumptions about other people so easily... because the alternatives mean that they don't have to. I also don't think that people are always willing to do what it takes to actually understand other people unless they're immediately on a perfectly identical wavelength that basically just reinforces their own perspective...

I'm not taking sides here, just saying that it could be that some men are willing to treat women as equals but don't for fear of appearing less-than-masculine... and therefore less desirable, less 'normal', etc... and straddling the line between masculine and 'equal' is more difficult than you might think. Sometimes they're willing to learn you just have to step up and show them the way-- the problem being that not too many women find that attractive and to be honest I don't even think people are able to describe either what they want from other people or who they want themselves to be.

How can all of that not be summed up as insecurity?
Insecure in a changing era.. insecure in their own masculinity...

Some people overcome the myths and the irrationality of it.. some people cling to those ideas.
I still think they cling to those ideas because they feel they are safe and non-threatening..

And then some people are not afraid to experience and question the world and evolve in their perspective..

But yeah, that boggles the mind.. the idea that some men are willing to treat women as equals, but don't due to worrying that it will emasculate them..
What would their idea of equality look like? Would it even be equality?
Equality is sharing power, being afraid someone is going to diminish you if they obtain any power.. makes it impossible to see others as equals..

 

[ENT8]

When I hear the word 'misogyny' I think of young females being forced to have cliterodectomies, cultures and religions where women are held responsible for men's actions (such as inciting lusts just by showing their face or hair in public); telling women who have been raped that they "asked for it" because they dressed/acted a certain way...war torn countries with rape epidemics--where the women have to invent something called, "Rape-axe condoms" to defend themselves,
states that pass laws prohibiting a woman to decide whether she wants to give birth or not...states that want to shut down women's health centers, income inequality between the sexes--where both parties are equally qualified and in the same position.. Cultural/institutional/legislative things like that.

The most salient misogyny in the US that I see, is the influx of anti-choice legislation being proposed and passed in states.... the militant effort to shut down women's health clinics (Planned Parenthood), and the creepy belief that a fetus is entitled to more rights than the woman carrying it (See Personhood movement.)

other than the abortion issue, I guess I assume these are just a given. Though I could make an argument for circumcision, and it's done almost as a matter of policy in the U.S. For some of the more conservative jewish sects, they do it the old fashioned way... as it wait for the bar mitzfa (phonetic spelling, I can't spell hebrew) around the age of 13. Futhermore, some circumcision is regularlly conducted in some regions of the world with sharpened bamboo or broken glass. Oh, and about 65% of boys born in the US have it done today...where a generation ago, it was 85%. Some psychologists have reasoned and concluded that the psychological damage actually is life long, regardless of the age it was done... but, here I sit, totally circumsized, and actually rather indifferent towards it.

Here's an article for ya if you care to read at least one internet published author on the subject - seemed pretty real to me, though I just don't see the problem with it that the writer does. But, hey, it definatley falls under the "forced genital mutilation" catagory: http://sikhism.about.com/od/questionsaboutsikhism/f/Do-Sikhs-Believe-In-Circumcision.htm

As for the abortion issue, I don't believe I can say I have much of an opinion. It is such an extremely volitile issue from any angle, at any point. Science is yet to come up with even a universally agreed on definition for "life", and religion (dispite what some fundamentalists would argue) has provided no better answer for it either. Regarding this issue, I'm not sure about any other religion than the christian/catholic faith, but I know for fact Jesus said nothing about abortion, although it did exist as a concept, and had some means of being practiced (as well as other forms of birth control) during his time. Even the quotes borrowed from the bible are questionably used by the pro life advocates.... but on the other hand, the bible is pretty clear on murder, and few would argue that.

So, at what stage does a fetus become a viable life? at 9 days past conception? well, hmm.. it's argueable.

but what about 9 months past conception. I know late term abortions are mostly illegal and very rarely used... but, still... i think most would have a hard time not seeing this as some form of murder or otherwise abuse or disregard for life.

Of course, I don't want a woman who is a victim of incest or rape being forced to carry a child... but, if it's an adult women, who carries to 9 months... but was raped... i mean... yea. this is exactly the problem. It comes down to defining what qualifies as sentient human life, and what should be protected as human free choice, and it's just too complex an issue for me personally to have an opinion.

I suppose I lean pro choice myself, but I just think it's possibly one of the very few issues that I don't think there is really any way to logically determine what is "correct" from a moral and ethical point of view. From an economic point of view... YEA! Gooooooo ABORTIONS!!! So, that's why I lean pro choice...but... I just don't have an opinion on this, because I don't believe I can, other than at the most extreme edges of the issue... (abortions 9 months into pregnancy should be illegal, and 13 year olds who are raped by their uncles should always be able to abort a pregnancy) Other than the most extreme edges of the debate though... I just don't know.

And for the men here who feel that they aren't getting enough attention and sympathy--I'm sorry your mom was domineering and you have a complex, now.. So let's hear about how persecuted you are in the world.. god forbid anyone bring up the subject that women may still have some shit to handle.. Why don't you write a sad blog about it or perhaps actually make a "Men's Rights" thread.....?

That's not really fair. Men DO have actual issues... and a lot of them circle around male culture and pressures to not discuss sensitive issues, but the incidence of men reporting cases of molestation, gang rape and other acts of sexual violence in prison systems is grossly underrepresented, yet surely contributes to many dysfunctional traits, including raping and otherwise persecuting women. Or, what about the increasing incidents of depression and suicide relating to being more displaced in the modern pop-american culture, or falling rates of attaining a "higher education" on a per capita basis? Or what about the U.S. judicial system having on the books as a matter of LAW that in a divorce proceeding, the judge is expected to give custody by default to the biological mother if the child is under the age of 5. So... this means unless the father can prove his ex wife is UNFIT to be a parent, she gets all the rights. Furthermore, although it's not "the law"...judges in divorce proceedings have historically favored women over the past 200 years, and this bias still continues today. But, that issue is actually rarely raised compared to the womens rights issue.

And as for the counterpart to the rape axe condom... how about the incidence of PTSD that the men who are forced to be apart of such military operations suffer from... you know, not the ones committing the rape, but the ones who are forced to fight alongside them, and stand by silently while these atrocities are being committed. Ok... I suppose they could try to stop it and run the risk of get hacked or shot to death themselves... or they could have their own family get hunted down and killed as punishment for a "disloyal act"... As a consequence, if they do not have a higher military authority than the rapists... they usually feel they are "forced" to not act. And they have to live with that... and some... well, lets just say some end up not living with it. Believe it or not, these types of things are some of the issues that men deal with, and they are equally as real as the ones you list. Would you rather be raped? or would you rather stand in the same room as someone beat and rapes a women, knowing that if you try to act out or run away, you'll likely be killed, and your family might also. Hmmm.. lets see... they both sound like charming situations to be in. I just don't know which one I should pick first.

And of course I could always tell you I feel sorry for you that your dad was domineering and as a result you have a complex about it right now... and it would probably be as accurate and insightful as your comment. I agree that one can start a thread on mens issues, I wouldn't identify with them myself...but I do recognize that they are very real. Another thread would be more appropriate of course, since this one is supposed to be on misogyny and it's close cousin sexism in the United States... but other than the separate thread point, none of what you've stated demonstrates that "the system" debases and otherwise violates the women of the world any more than "the system" does it to men as well.

And, if we're REALLY staying on topic, this is supposed to be about how this all plays out in the U.S. If that's the case, about 75% of every male born here has his penis sliced up, and usually as a matter of policy. How many girls have any such proceedure, sanctioned or otherwise, in the U.S.? And I know female genital mutilation tends to be a more involved, and physically damaging act, but that's kinda like saying "well, when you were raped, he only put his penis in for 10 minutes, and I was raped for an hour straight, so it's WAAAY worse for me". And as a man who has been "mutilated" myself... I'm just kinda indifferent to it. I don't even know why. Maybe it should bother me. Maybe i'm just SUPERTUFF. Probably not. But it's real, and it is an order of magnitude more pervasive than the female counterpart to it. Now on a serious and personal note, I had a brother who spent time behind bars, and we don't talk about that. Now... I wonder why that is. Honestly, I don't know, and I DON'T WANT TO KNOW. I just leave it at that. Of course, most men arn't attacked on the second date with a roofie and a pervert... but don't for a moment think that men don't have their fair share of issues that are equally real and relevent... and maybe more than ever, at least in this decade, in the united states.

-E

 

[Apone]

How can all of that not be summed up as insecurity?
Insecure in a changing era.. insecure in their own masculinity...

Some people overcome the myths and the irrationality of it.. some people cling to those ideas.
I still think they cling to those ideas because they feel they are safe and non-threatening..

And then some people are not afraid to experience and question the world and evolve in their perspective..

But yeah, that boggles the mind.. the idea that some men are willing to treat women as equals, but don't due to worrying that it will emasculate them..
What would their idea of equality look like? Would it even be equality?
Equality is sharing power, being afraid someone is going to diminish you if they obtain any power.. makes it impossible to see others as equals..

Don't get me wrong, there is a lot of insecurity out there and I don't think that these things necessarily make a lot of sense, but we're not really talking about something where emotions/feelings aren't the primary motivating factor. Everyone has their own contradictions and paradoxes... their ideals clash with their instincts, etc... and men aren't always so good with articulating their feelings on a subject-- because of what being that way implies.

But yeah, I'll admit that some of the things I did describe are insecurity, but I do think that some of it is also just stubbornness, sense of tradition, and even willful resistance of the 'new society'.

 

[ENT8]

How can all of that not be summed up as insecurity?
Insecure in a changing era.. insecure in their own masculinity...

Some people overcome the myths and the irrationality of it.. some people cling to those ideas.
I still think they cling to those ideas because they feel they are safe and non-threatening..

And then some people are not afraid to experience and question the world and evolve in their perspective..

But yeah, that boggles the mind.. the idea that some men are willing to treat women as equals, but don't due to worrying that it will emasculate them..
What would their idea of equality look like? Would it even be equality?
Equality is sharing power, being afraid someone is going to diminish you if they obtain any power.. makes it impossible to see others as equals..

Well on this it seems we totally agree. Frankly, for any man reading this... if treating a women as an equal is somehow worries you regarding your place and position in the world.

THEN YOUR A FUCKING PUSSY!

As a man, but more importantly, as a human being... I tend to treat everyone with dignity and respect unless they provide reason for me not to, and I take exactly what I want out of life, because I'll fight for what I want anytime, anywhere, against any one. And if someone or some group of insecure guys were to question or doubt my masculentity because of some sort of emotional response I exhibited, or how I handled a situation with a women, then I'm happy to give them a REAL reason for their insecurity. bottom line, if anyone needs to play to their image of what is strong or weak, male or female, then I hope that insecurity prevents you from getting laid, because I don't want my oxygen being stolen by your unworthy offspring, or my tax dollars going to support your existence OR even your execution! I'd just rather you not ever cross my path and show your true colors. Fucking pussies. I swear. It's one thing to be weak, it's another all together to be weak but try to bully others because your both weak, and too weak to admit it, and too scared to actually be strong. My goodness... Just jump off a bridge now, so your weakness doesn't continue to give me this headache.

-E