Multiculturalism = fracturing of society.

Billy said:
mohegans
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*Mahican
These people were not a waring tribe, rather defenders of their homeland territory.
"Following the disruption of the American Revolutionary War, most of the Mahican descendants first migrated westward to join the Iroquois Oneida on their reservation in central New York. The Oneida gave them about 22,000 acres for their use."

The Algonquain however were indeed a waring tribe. And Canadian.
"The Algonquian are one of the most populous and widespread North American native language groups. Today, thousands of individuals identify with various Algonquian peoples."

Without the help of the Europeans the Algonquain would not have gained such a massive amount if northern territory. It was in fact the Iroquois Nation that sent the Algonquain back to the north and retained claim to the lands along the east coast until the Dutch were overrun by the English.

The Iroquois had adopted the Mahican into their numbers by that time, as the numbers of the Mahican were few and their lands gone.

If it weren't for the Iroquois Nation, trading with England and providing it with a foothold in this country, England would not have colonized the East Coast and gone on to invade the helping hands that allowed them tge access to open the westward movement, grow this America and pave the way for others of foreign lands to migrate here.

Thus Billy, America is settled by a melting pot of squatters.

The "white ideology of home grown leave it to beaver pre-1960's culture started with the Beaver Wars of the indigenous people with Europeans greed for more and the want of a Puritist culture. They didn't get it. And, in the current state of affairs, that greed doesn't appear to be ending anytime soon.

So I'd reckon to say America will continue to be a country of subcultures within the culture of what America is and was intended by our forefathers...a place of freedom to chose.
https://www.researchgate.net/public...ystems_Effects_on_group_process_and_consensus

***and before you fluff up your feathers or get your knickers all knotted up with a flame filled argument of how wrong I am, be it known I am from upstate New York, Mohawk blood of the Iroquois people both mother and father's side of my heritage. Which lends me to be more aboriginal than some, and a proud American.

Where you from?
 
88chaz88 said:
Nope, that notion gives Billy's ideas way too much false credit. In 1817 the slave trade was still in full swing, many Native American cultures were still around that aren't today, there was major immigration from Europe, much of America was still owned by Spain (oh and Spain has always been super diverse, ever heard of the Moors or Basque culture?) and you're only 30 or so years away from the first mass immigration wave from China.

Billy's ideas of some singular cultured America are a complete and total fantasy.
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Just like the fantasy of the 1950's being utopian in America? Make America great again? You mean make America segregated again is more like it. Let's be honest here. We aren't discussing Europeans, culture, identity, or history. This is all about the belief that some ignorant people like Richard Spencer possess that white people are superior to others. That's it. It is thinly veiled white supremacy masquerading as some intellectual theory of how to avoid conflict within a civilization. It is garbage.
 
dang said:
Just like the fantasy of the 1950's being utopian in America? Make America great again? You mean make America segregated again is more like it. Let's be honest here. We aren't discussing Europeans, culture, identity, or history. This is all about the belief that some ignorant people like Richard Spencer possess that white people are superior to others. That's it. It is thinly veiled white supremacy masquerading as some intellectual theory of how to avoid conflict within a civilization. It is garbage.
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Yeah basically. But even if you take their fake concerns at face value you find they're based on nothing.
 
dang said:
Milo is such a pathetic attention whore.
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200w.gif
 
dang said:
I think you should learn a little more about mbti. There is no way you are an INFJ. You claim to thrive on chaos and conflict. That is the antithesis of what any real INFJ would ever say.
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Although I myself clearly disagree with OP, I don't think this is the way you're proving him wrong.

Besides, MBTI relies on self-report, and consequentially only measures* personal preferences. It does not predict an individual's actual behaviour. Also, you must be aware this argument is a bit shaky, because some people tend to point out a certain mr. AH was posthumously typed as INFJ. It's not like he thrived on harmony or excelled in being a peacekeeper.

*Assuming MBTI is even a validated assessment tool
 
Professor Snep said:
Although I myself clearly disagree with OP, I don't think this is the way you're proving him wrong.

Besides, MBTI relies on self-report, and consequentially only measures* personal preferences. It does not predict an individual's actual behaviour. Also, you must be aware this argument is a bit shaky, because some people tend to point out a certain mr. AH was posthumously typed as INFJ. It's not like he thrived on harmony or excelled in being a peacekeeper.

*Assuming MBTI is even a validated assessment tool
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Good points, but I have extreme doubts about Adolf being an INFJ. I mean his empathy, which is a trademark of being an INFJ, was clearly lacking. Plus if someone is deranged, their mbti is irrelevant. I mean if someone is an estp healthy, but then develops schizophrenia, could you even tell their type? I think types are only really helpful when dealing with people who aren't completely fucked up. And Adolf was completely fucked up. His capacity for projection and his lack of compassion were historically impressive. Call me crazy, but I am not a member of the Adolf fan club. To me, Adolf was as bad as Hitler. And that's bad.
 
Professor Snep said:
Like a great visionary once said to me
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I know our views are controversial, but I simply must speak my truth. Adolf was not a good person. I know my hot take will offend most people, but I can't deny my sentiments any longer. Also, to say Milky is a visionary does him a disservice. I would say he is more of a prophet or a revolutionary. In fact, I am of the mind that he may be the messiah. But don't tell anyone. He is very private. And he likes to play pinball in peace and solitude. We are blessed to have his presence on this forum. He is the One who shows the Way. Amen.
 
I think mr. Adolf's quest was more like this (see also his clips from private life):

Hard life. Can't be painter. Paints walls. Life sucks, where is my bigger purpose?
Goes to army, wow, I HAD A PURPOSE. No, purpose anymore. T_T
Life sucks, who is to blame. Meets people telling random shit who is to blame that young Adolf has no purpose.
Joins the group, stars to talk a bit, gets a friend which says he'll teach him a few tricks on public speaking.
He tries them, they work. WTF? How can they, probably because small group of people. Wouldn't work on bigger.
OMG works on bigger to. OMG works on even bigger, WTF how the fuck can this work, are you for real?
People are retarded, how the fuck can they do this, but hey, hm, I could do something big.
He became a dreamer: www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmGqG3grTrg but ok, he had other psychopaths near (like mr. Odilo).

I think it's like Ponzi schemes develop, people usually don't plan for them. hm.
 
Professor Snep said:
Like a great visionary once said to me
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dang said:
Also, to say Milky is a visionary does him a disservice. I would say he is more of a prophet or a revolutionary. In fact, I am of the mind that he may be the messiah. But don't tell anyone. He is very private. And he likes to play pinball in peace and solitude. We are blessed to have his presence on this forum. He is the One who shows the Way. Amen
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I cannot disagree.
 
Citizens of Earth

If we think about it, people are not born Turks or Americans. They are not born Palestinians or Jews. These are merely labels. Each of us is born as a precious entity of life, as a human being. Our mothers didn't give birth to us thinking. 'I'm giving birth to a Japanese' or 'I'm giving birth to an Arab'. Their only thought was 'may this new life be healthy and grow.'
In any country, a rose is a rose, a violet is a violet, people are people - though they may be called by different names.
Perhaps the clouds and the winds high above the blue waters of the Bosporus are whispering among themselves as they gaze down upon humanity: 'Wake up! From up here, it is clear that the world is one. You are all citizens of Earth. There is no such thing as Americans, no such thing as Iraqis. This is only this boy, this life, called Bob, who happens to live in America; there is only this boy, this life Mohammed, who happens to live in Iraq. Both are children of Earth. And yet they are divided by the names of their countries and taught to hate each other! Wake up from this foolishness, this arrogance, this cruel habit of passing hatred and resentment on to the next generation.'
We need to awaken to a common consciousness of being all inhabitants of Earth. This consciousness is not to be found in some distant place. It will not be found on a computer screen. It lies in our hearts, in our ability to share the pain of our fellow human beings. It is the spirit that says: As long as you are suffering, whoever you are and whatever your suffering may be, I suffer also.'

(Adapted from the book One by one: The World is Yours to Change, Published by Dunhill in 2005).
 
LittleLissa said:
Citizens of Earth

If we think about it, people are not born Turks or Americans. They are not born Palestinians or Jews. These are merely labels. Each of us is born as a precious entity of life, as a human being. Our mothers didn't give birth to us thinking. 'I'm giving birth to a Japanese' or 'I'm giving birth to an Arab'. Their only thought was 'may this new life be healthy and grow.'
In any country, a rose is a rose, a violet is a violet, people are people - though they may be called by different names.
Perhaps the clouds and the winds high above the blue waters of the Bosporus are whispering among themselves as they gaze down upon humanity: 'Wake up! From up here, it is clear that the world is one. You are all citizens of Earth. There is no such thing as Americans, no such thing as Iraqis. This is only this boy, this life, called Bob, who happens to live in America; there is only this boy, this life Mohammed, who happens to live in Iraq. Both are children of Earth. And yet they are divided by the names of their countries and taught to hate each other! Wake up from this foolishness, this arrogance, this cruel habit of passing hatred and resentment on to the next generation.'
We need to awaken to a common consciousness of being all inhabitants of Earth. This consciousness is not to be found in some distant place. It will not be found on a computer screen. It lies in our hearts, in our ability to share the pain of our fellow human beings. It is the spirit that says: As long as you are suffering, whoever you are and whatever your suffering may be, I suffer also.'

(Adapted from the book One by one: The World is Yours to Change, Published by Dunhill in 2005).
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Partially agree. I am here a bit missing your point, but some traits are genetic and the traits are more common within one of these labels, compared to the other. Like it or not. But hm nurture (and the local environment) plays a huge role.

My point is that we aren't all equal, but yours is I think, that we should have all equal rights maybe even idealistically equal opportunities and that we shouldn't fight each other over which "label" is better than the other, but just accept that we are equal. I agree with that, except the tiny last part. If we would be all equal, there wouldn't be different cultures (nurture, but also partially genetic).

Actually modern multi-culturalism is death to cultures. It would like to make a mono-culture, where everything is the same ironically. Some patriotism/nationalism and some competition is essential unfortunately if you want to have the richness of different cultures, but ok, it clashes with the idealism.
 
seba said:
Partially agree. I am here a bit missing your point, but some traits are genetic and the traits are more common within one of these labels, compared to the other. Like it or not. But hm nurture (and the local environment) plays a huge role.


If you could 'see' yourself live 500 different lives in different bodies across the planet - I think you'd essentially see how we are one, essentially.


My point is that we aren't all equal, but yours is I think, that we should have all equal rights maybe even idealistically equal opportunities and that we shouldn't fight each other over which "label" is better than the other, but just accept that we are equal. I agree with that, except the tiny last part. If we would be all equal, there wouldn't be different cultures (nurture, but also partially genetic).


I think we should have equal rights. Yes I do.


Actually modern multi-culturalism is death to cultures. It would like to make a mono-culture, where everything is the same ironically. Some patriotism/nationalism and some competition is essential unfortunately if you want to have the richness of different cultures, but ok, it clashes with the idealism.
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What a load of Bull@^%#.
 
seba said:
lol, ok.
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I'm sorry I don't mean to be rude, I just have a really hard time understanding where people like you are coming from. I have never understood your mentality and I find it offensive.
 
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