not fitting in: accept it or deal with it?

[testing]

...
However, I think beyond this specific example it is simply a matter of broadening the scope of the area we want/need to fit into. For example, I keep up with Formula One racing. Nobody in my immediate culture does so, but at the same time I know full well there are millions of folks around the world who do. So...do I fit in? Yup, but not around here. So I proceed, knowing full well I am not on shakey ground in the least. It is that inner shift that puts one less on the defensive....and perhaps even a little more on the offensive.

In the same way, I have also "travelled the world" a good bit and spent a great deal of time with personal experiences of others via my work as a documentary producer/director. Those experiences, as you all no doubt know, are great for broadening one's sense of what is "normal" or "typical." So I am not solely a product of my surroundings (so I don't fit in) but I know my awarenesses are well-founded, true, and right. Again, it is this little interior shift that makes a huge difference. I am not inclined to hide away because I do not fit in...quite the opposite. Instead of being an outcast, I am simply "quirky and entertaining" (or so I am told), which is fine inasmuch as I think others derive some inspiration to think outside the box a bit for themselves, too...to explore and define themselves beyond the constraints of the pop culture norms we live in the midst of.

Oh my, I have SOOOO been there, done that. Not with formula one racing, but with other things....

I have several haunts and all of them are before the 14th century!! It was a time when the spiritual life still carried a more primative, original meaning and intuitive intelligence, creativity, and interior freedom still was less fettered. Bringing these concepts forward, re-questioning them, and finding connections for today allows us to live in the present with the benefit of the wisdom of the past, and I think we gain much from this. In my case, these connections directly relate to major themes and intuitive connections of my life. I'd be happy to share more via pm, mostly because this is what worked for me and, like I said, it happened almost by accident as I followed my own path.

I would be very interested to learn more if you would like to share via PM! It is very cool that you've traveled a lot and made documentary films. I'm such a homebody myself I must live vicariously!

 

[Morgain]

may be a better question is, what do you all mean by fitting in? When do you feel that you fit in?


for me it is when I enter a room and people say hello to me, when they aknowledge my existance, answer to what I say or aknowledge that I have said something, when they organize a party and don't forget to ask me too, when they wait for me when going to the lunch room, when they ask "where is M." when I'm not there. In short, when they give me the feeling that I matter and am appreciated. I don't even have to have the same interests or view points.

 

[testing]

may be a better question is, what do you all mean by fitting in? When do you feel that you fit in?


for me it is when I enter a room and people say hello to me, when they aknowledge my existance, answer to what I say or aknowledge that I have said something, when they organize a party and don't forget to ask me too, when they wait for me when going to the lunch room, when they ask "where is M." when I'm not there. In short, when they give me the feeling that I matter and am appreciated. I don't even have to have the same interests or view points.

Morgain, I mean that I fit in when I know I am loved. Or at least accepted.

A metaphorical example is the beloved firstborn grandchild walking into a room full of doting parents, aunts, uncles and grandparents. He's loved and wanted by everyone in the room, and he knows it deep down in his bones; he's never known anything else; he has been surrounded by people who want him around from the time he took his first breath. That is the ultimate in "fitting in". That child belongs.

Now, as a grown woman I don't expect that kind of adoration. (But I won't complain! LOL!)

...but that is the feeling I mean when I say I feel like I fit in.

I also don't think many of us of any MBTI type ever get to really feel that way; there is always someone who doesn't want us or who resents us (that's life, folks) and maybe some of us are more sensitive to that feeling than others.

 

[randomsomeone]

Because you don't hide yourself or question yourself, right?

I don't hide much anymore....but it all went back to that one set of experiences that set my sense of "normal" on a more substantial course.

when they give me the feeling that I matter and am appreciated.

Yes, and sometimes this can be more about our own inner constructs...our sensitivities create a loop that holds us back more than they should. This was my experience anyway.
I think if we can take a step or two towards more inner assuredness, we come to get more positive feedback from others, and over time, this can resets our expectation and experiences around fitting in.

Don't get me wrong, I can get overlooked in certain situations, too, but it doesn't make me crater because it's not my only point of reference. I have other input from other friends/experiences and from within myself that put things in perspective a bit.

 

[Morgain]

Yes, and sometimes this can be more about our own inner constructs...our sensitivities create a loop that holds us back more than they should. This was my experience anyway.
I think if we can take a step or two towards more inner assuredness, we come to get more positive feedback from others, and over time, this can resets our expectation and experiences around fitting in.

Don't get me wrong, I can get overlooked in certain situations, too, but it doesn't make me crater because it's not my only point of reference. I have other input from other friends/experiences and from within myself that put things in perspective a bit.

that's my point exactly. I also have the experience that when I'm more self assured, in the same social setting, people react differently. When I'm more self assured they are nicer and accept me as I am. It is stupid actually, like you said, we create a loop of negative experiences that holds us back. A low self esteem is like a bad smell, people don't like it and avoid it. Question is, when you are in the negative loop, how to get out again . You really have to believe in yourself to get things in perspection again!

 

[IndigoSensor]

It's simple for me really. All my life I have had serious problems with fitting in (one of them landed me in a mental hospital for a month). As I have gone through a lot with it isn't much of an issue for me anymore.

If I don't fit in, I will either try to make the best of it over time, or I simply move on. It' doesn't really upset me much at all if I don't fit in.

 

[Gaze]

Learning to adapt and be flexible is understandable - a good social skill and in many ways better for the larger community since the "me" need to take a back seat to the "we" in some cases. Learning to get along is also great (sometimes), but it's not necessary to always fit in every situation. I say you take it on a case by case basis. Fitting in should always consider the people, community, relationships, motives, situation, goals, etc. It's not a one-size-fits all world that we live in. We should protect ourselves from outside influences that could redirect you to accept or support things which compromises beliefs or values. But if your focus is always on fitting in, then you may find you're going along to get along, subsequently (without realizing it) acceding to beliefs, thoughts, ideas, or philsophies which are questionable, or dangerous simply because you want to fit in. I'm sure many of Hitler's men didn't like or support the actions during the Holocaust but a few probably went along because they were afraid of not fitting in. Probably would've or could've been killed if they didn't go along so then the law of self preservation took over. So, fitting in is a tricky concept. On the other end, not fitting in because of resentment or selfish motives is counterproductive and potentially dangerous as well. So, we pick and choose (carefully) when we it's ok to fit in (no fuss or biggie), and when we don't feel the need to fit in for personal reasons, or those social or ethical.

 

[randomsomeone]

You really have to believe in yourself to get things in perspection again!

For me this has been one of the great strengths of being an INFJ...the other connections that have come to me in life are very vivid and very potent. These provide inner strength and triangulation...like the girders on a skyscraper (not to mention the foundation). In this way I feel things and process things as one level of information, but the others are also there, too. It's that additive approach I've mentioned before. I don't fight with myself over life's hurts (they happen), but the other information keeps the ship afloat somehow, and even pointed in the right direction.

 

[anica]

not fitting in: accept it or deal with it?

yes I think you are on something here! this interior shift you are talking about has much to do with self-esteem. You feel comfortable with who you are and know deeply that other ways of living your life are as valuable as the ones of the people in your surroundings. So therefore you don't care much about what the people around you think of you and so you don't care much about whether you fit in or not. And that is exactly why other people like you/find inspiration with you. Because you don't hide yourself or question yourself, right?

I agree. I had a mother who treated me much like Morgain's co-worker, then married a man who treated me the same way. No matter what my accomplishments, I think my self-esteem was always very low. When I acquired a disability in my mid-forties, I became a true outcast in many ways. It was at this nadir when, for whatever reason, I experienced this interior shift. Perhaps it was merely a matter of having nothing left to lose, but I became free to be whoever I was/am and began to value it. Over time others (both like and unlike myself) began to value me as I am. I can't say I enjoy an active social life to the extent randomsomeone does, but I no longer feel as out of synch with people in my immediate environment as I once did.

 

[Flavus Aquila]

I agree. I had a mother who treated me much like Morgain's co-worker, then married a man who treated me the same way. No matter what my accomplishments, I think my self-esteem was always very low. When I acquired a disability in my mid-forties, I became a true outcast in many ways. It was at this nadir when, for whatever reason, I experienced this interior shift. Perhaps it was merely a matter of having nothing left to lose, but I became free to be whoever I was/am and began to value it. Over time others (both like and unlike myself) began to value me as I am. I can't say I enjoy an active social life to the extent randomsomeone does, but I no longer feel as out of synch with people in my immediate environment as I once did.

It often takes something big and unpleasant to free one.
Once your free of caring whether you fit in or are esteemed, etc. life becomes fun in a simple and enjoyable way.

 

[Morgain]

I know that doesn't make sense. It's just a wishing not to take responsibility for my life and instead asking life to take care of what I can't handle. I sometimes dream of getting sick enough to be hospitalized when I'm tired and worn out by life. I don't feel I can allow myself rest. I sense someone, somewhere, would judge harshly my choice, and therefore highlight the lack of value in the choice.

are you kidding me, that is exactly how my fucked up brain function. Someone, somewhere will always judge harshly on my choice and so I never find peace of mind or never can just settle with my decissions. The harder this so called judgement is pushing on me, the more angry and intollerating I become...

 

[randomsomeone]

Perhaps it was merely a matter of having nothing left to lose, but I became free to be whoever I was/am and began to value it.

I, too, have had this experience....it was a real turning point for me (in so many ways). So, yes, I have been a total outcast...if I adapted at all it was only because I died a thousand deaths getting here. It was well worth the battle.

 

[anica]

not fitting in: accept it or deal with it?

I, too, have had this experience....it was a real turning point for me (in so many ways). So, yes, I have been a total outcast...if I adapted at all it was only because I died a thousand deaths getting here. It was well worth the battle.

Yes, it was, but unlike Tovlo's perception, it was not a matter of relinquishing responsibility for my life and allowing life to take care of me--and I don't mean that as a criticism--it just wasn't what happened. It was, instead, a life-and-death battle and life won only after a thousand deaths, as randomsomeone put it. I got to a point where I could no longer afford to care about how others judged me, if that makes any sense. Now if I could get to this point when it comes to my writing...

 

[Morgain]

Yes, it was, but unlike Tovlo's perception, it was not a matter of relinquishing responsibility for my life and allowing life to take care of me--and I don't mean that as a criticism--it just wasn't what happened. It was, instead, a life-and-death battle and life won only after a thousand deaths, as randomsomeone put it. I got to a point where I could no longer afford to care about how others judged me, if that makes any sense. Now if I could get to this point when it comes to my writing...

I understand exactly what you mean! If you are judge so hardly that there is no way you can ever change yourself to fit in, there is no other way than not to care or to die inside.

I really hope you'll get to that point for your writing!!!

I'm trying to live according to the saying: "listen to yourself and all will be well".
I really believe it is true, and telling this to me really helps to free myself from the expectations of others. I only tend to forget it from time to time!

 

[anica]

not fitting in: accept it or deal with it?

I understand exactly what you mean! If you are judge so hardly that there is no way you can ever change yourself to fit in, there is no other way than not to care or to die inside.

I really hope you'll get to that point for your writing!!!

I'm trying to live according to the saying: "listen to yourself and all will be well".
I really believe it is true, and telling this to me really helps to free myself from the expectations of others. I only tend to forget it from time to time!

Exactly...and I will get there with my writing someday, I'm sure, especially given what I'm writing these days.

 

[randomsomeone]

I got to a point where I could no longer afford to care about how others judged me, if that makes any sense.

I'm trying to live according to the saying: "listen to yourself and all will be well".

Yes, this is how it all went down for me, too. All the networks I normally relied on (at the time) were on overload and I just had to let go, shut everything down, and coast on my own. Big shock....everything was just fine! That was a huge lesson for me, one I never forgot.

 

[INTJMom]

I was thinking about the fitting in problem we all seem to have.

should we accept it as it is or should we try to solve it. Is it caused by an inherent tread of ours to never feel that way unregarding the social environement or is it caused by a social environement that isn't very friendly towards us weirdos?

I think it's both. I have seen discussions in threads where the general sentiment seemed to be that N types were more likely to "feel" alone in a crowd than S types... and that it seemed to be almost part and parcel of being an N type.

When I was in my 30's, I began to make more of an effort at being "likable" and "acceptable" to people. I feel I have made great strides.

I don't think I will ever be free from that feeling of being alone in the world, but I am treated more nicely by more people since I began making an effort to be less abrasive... and being treated nicely is a good thing.

Oh and I would like to mention that at least for myself, until I became more likable, it was hard for me to believe that people liked me... so it became a self-fulfilling prophecy when I thought that people didn't like me. Even if they acted like they did, I didn't "believe" it.

 

[NeverAmI]

Depends on the context of how I differ from the majority and the implications of the consequences of opposing something.

If it is challenging the knowledge or common beliefs with implications that could be vastly beneficial to humanity and you stand against fitting in by speaking on these beliefs, then that could be seen as quite noble.

If you refuse to fit in by ignoring societal rules and kill another person because they made you feel bad emotionally, well that is quite different.


If it is on a superficial level such as coloring your hair or getting tattoos/piercings and thus alienating certain people then it depends on what your societal needs are. It moves you away from one group and towards another. It is still contextual.

 

[SweetDreams]

Both, depending on the situation. If it's a scenario which involves people i'm not bothered with, I don't really make an effort to fit in. However, I do have occasional bouts of extroversion and will make more of an effort to engage in conversation/interact with people.