Out of the loop for a long time, and clueless

[minkowski thermodynamics]

Woah, Ria, your post is illuminating.

I was even about to say that your preferred interaction would make for very boring conversation, but you acknowledged that yourself , and then you mentioned that you prefer to look for the non-verbal cues and vibes more than the substance of the conversation.

Very interesting. Indeed, intriguing...


EDIT: The only thing that bothers me is that some of the topics that cross boundaries still seem like just normal icebreakers. What if you get a good vibe from the person, and they managed to ask one of these questions that cross boundaries?

Would the good vibe over-ride the bad topic of conversation in this case?

 

[Ria]

Woah, Ria, your post is illuminating.

I was even about to say that your preferred interaction would make for very boring conversation, but you acknowledged that yourself , and then you mentioned that you prefer to look for the non-verbal cues and vibes more than the substance of the conversation.

Very interesting. Indeed, intriguing...


EDIT: The only thing that bothers me is that some of the topics that cross boundaries still seem like just normal icebreakers. What if you get a good vibe from the person, and they managed to ask one of these questions that cross boundaries?

Would the good vibe over-ride the bad topic of conversation in this case?

well, I mentioned that if the stranger wants to know those things from a complete stranger (me) then he can volunteer that info about himself, then if am willing to share that info too, I have the opportunity to then, or esle not bother to... the unspoken energy then is usually understood and hopefully respected. If then the stranger wants to still know and asks, then I have the right and the place to say that I am not comfortable sharing those things, sorry... (in a polite and respectful way).


I might feel better divulging info about where I live and things about my kids to a later later time if I thought there was a potential to talk with the strager again... or if we met up again etc.

I hope that was clearer

 

[minkowski thermodynamics]

I hope that was clearer

I understand Ria. You and arbygil have brought up something that I find very intriguing (I sound like a broken record, ha).

You know how we intuitives always talk about wanting to find someone "deep"? Someone we can have "deep conversations" with ?

Now you two women are saying that you are wary of guys who get too deep too fast. And would instead prefer the more boring, surface level conversation, while relying on your intuition to determine whether you get a good vibe or not from the person.

The content of the conversation is thus secondary to what your internal intuiting tells you.

Whereas most of us intuitives would focus on the content of the conversation and say, "oh this person sounds shallow, since they're only talking about the superficial, shooting the breeze stuff."

What we would consider shallow, or boring topics, you women would consider safe, non-personal topics that don't cross boundaries.

 

[Shai Gar]

oh hell yes. if a woman wants to talk superficial for more than a minute i disregard her and move on. often during her talking and i'm told later that she found me rude.

 

[minkowski thermodynamics]

oh hell yes. if a woman wants to talk superficial for more than a minute i disregard her and move on. often during her talking and i'm told later that she found me rude.

LOL !

You see, this is the point I was trying to get at. It goes both ways. We would end up prematurely dismissing women like arbygil and Ria who are certainly capable of deeper conversations. On the other hand, they would end up passing over guys like us and accuse us of wanting to get too deep too fast.

 

[arbygil]

(I'll get to what Ria and ACD wrote in a sec, 'cause you girls were right on it!, but I want to comment quickly before I run to work).

Also, Shai and mink, you have to realize that INFJ women - and perhaps many introverted women - are never comfortable with self disclosure first. *You* have to introduce yourself first and tell a little about yourself. We will gauge you by the way you approach us, and by what you're saying. We are skittish, but we do go deep. We just don't go deep from 0-60. Especially if you tell us nothing about you first.

 

[anica]

Out of the loop for a long time and clueless

Personally? From your description of the brief interaction, I would've been a littled creeped out, and I'm a pretty friendly person. I've been known to strike up conversations with total strangers if the topic interests me (e.g., a book I'm reading or an author I love--so lots of these encounters take place in bookstores and libraries where I feel particularly safe).

 

[arbygil]

At least you didn't mace him and knee him in the groin; you didn't act on the quick conclusions about his suspected dastardly practices that you drew.

If you felt creeped out, I'd heed that. Even if his words were kind, most of our communication is non-verbal. Maybe you picked something up.

Calling him a rapist and a murderer in your own head is a tad extreme, but something about him warranted alarm instinctively... and I can understand exaggerating for emphasis on something as abstract as the alarm you felt..

I almost responded to this earlier, but I wanted to see what else you'd say about it.


Your last post is reasonable and not paranoid sounding. So, go with your instincts.

Thanks, ACD - it is entirely possible that I *did* read something in it. I don't like "too close too fast" and it never feels right to me. The other thing I should've mentioned is that this guy never really paused between questions. He asked something I gave a response, and then he went right on to another set of questions. He was taking a lot in, but the only thing I got back was that he was new in town. I didn't like that, either. Did I overreact? Maybe. But you're right; something in the conversation didn't sit right with me.

I know when I 'feel' a certain vibe from a guy who is being 'friendly' By 'friendly', I am reffering to what arbygil said about getting too personal too soon and the inability to read other people's body language about when their personal boundaries are being crossed. Boundaries are sacred to me, they define comfort zones and I view boundaries and comfort zones with respect. When boundaries r crossed and cause someone to feel uncomfortable, there is an experience of anger...

Bingo, Ria - that's it. That's *so* it.

Questions that I feel cross my boundaries with a loud and flamboyant (lol) stranger:

How old I am
Do I have children
Where do I work
What school do my kids go to and what grade
Am I married or single
Having my name sang out in a song (from the stranger)
Hearing personal information about the stranger
(I actually am literally not interested and don't care one bit)

And these were the questions he asked, except for the kids. And I'll add a footnote here: Yeah, I don't really want to hear all the personal, intimate details of a stranger's life, either. Our conversation really has to be on neutral ground. If you see a book I'm reading and ask me about it, and then comment on how that book made you feel, that's one way to know me. It's neutral. What's not neutral are questions that makes me feel cornered or vulnerable, or questions that make me feel less like a human being and more like an object. I'm not a survey for amusement. You earn the right to ask these questions; it's not an automatic right. I agree with that awkwardness, Ria. I truly do. I think it's also because we're not the "casual hookup" type.

The boundary is there for me and others like me regarding this type of thing because it creates an awkward feeling inside me, and I don't want to feel awkward and uncomfortable. It makes for an awkward situation where I know the other person (stranger) may feel wierd and uncomfortable with my unfriendliness (to his standard), and it's there because I am not out looking for a hook up, which is sometimes what they r hoping for. I don't like to think I am making someone feel rejected. (well, lets be honest and say that with the vibe "I call it the creep factor", there is the putting it out there in a very blatent way), that he is interested in me, but that doesnt mean that I am going to return the feeling, especially not when the guy presents himself that way...
The vibe would go a bit like this:

hmmm, like how she looks, I'm in need of a good woman and she looks like a nice person, I wonder how she looks naked, (ahh yes, I see her in my mind), I am curious about her energy, there is something innocent about her, I am new in town, (ahem, not necessarily) lol, I want to sing her name, (ewww!) I'm trying to be charming, I think she likes me, I don't care is she doesnt yet, I'll get her to...

among a few other things.

Now I know this sounds parranoid, but it's honestly what I have managed to be able to pick up on with guys in the past, and I have made the mistake of not following my instincts before.

ROFL!!! That's *it.* I hate to keep saying, "that's me" all over the place, but that's exactly how I feel about it too. For me, it's also a slimy feeling. It's feeling like I'm an object again. But when I "hear" that vibe in my bones I just want to avoid it at all costs. What does it say to me? It says that he doesn't care about me. He cares about what I can do for him. It's not a balance, and I'm not his f-toy.

Questions I am comfortable with from a stranger after we have had the silent exploration I mentioned above:

Hi
(smiles)
some mutual looking around and random comments (on the neat color of a building or something)
more smiles or chuckling over random building color
some shy body language
introductions
(he) volunteers general info. such as being new in town and where he came from
then if I want to, I can volunteer similar comments too etc.


sounds boring? well I guess it's supposed to be boring because it's a stranger and because I am more interested in the non verbal conversation that takes place and the meanings behind the behavior rather than feeling stressed as to why is this guy interviewing me, why does he want to know this stuff!!! Why does he want to know me? Even a female acting the way that guy acted would make me feel like running too... ya, strangers singing my name? hah, lol... I'd just be like wtf...

O arbygil, I guess my post sounds kinda rediculous, but I did actually get a laugh out of writing it... I figured this might make u laugh a bit too if u can possibly relate or identify with what I wrote for yrself too!

Thanks, Ria - it did make me laugh, but I also found myself nodding a lot and wanting to write down a million things. Sure, we're a bit boring. But it's also us watching you. If you really want to get to know us, then you'll "feel" that there's something deeper. You'll be okay with the small talk, because you already know there's more to it. I don't think you necessarily have to be an intuitive to do this - simple respect of a woman's personal space and basic knowledge of cultural boundaries works, too.

 

[laurie]

Reading your conversation made me feel that I probably would have done a similar thing (though I'm a bit scared of dogs, so I probably would've frozen in place, then sprinted as soon as the owner showed up, thinking 'Why is it not on a lead?!').

As soon as someone I don't know says I'm nice or compliments me, I get too uncomfortable and have to get away. I'm really bad with compliments anyway, but if it's from a stranger, I don't know how to react. It makes me warm and fuzzy inside afterwards though XD

If I'm talking to someone who acts that way, I usually just keep refocusing on something else, trying to keep the conversation off me ^^" I'm so bad with people.