Paris Shootings, Explosion & Hostage Crisis 11/13

just me said:
I'm running out of popcorn, and need a toothpick. Breaking news for everyone: The world is at war. The perpetrators of these attacks do not have fighter jets/bombers. They use what they can to fight their wars.

We are fighting an ever-growing self-proclaimed caliphate that is Muslim. They are not terrorists any longer. I would not want to be a Muslim, either, if this is what Islam is about. Quoting a scripture from a book seems so redundant. If you do not know, don't waste others' time. We are fighting a war here. Be careful what you drop on ISIS, because it will be returned in some form.

Now, let's talk about sympathizers. Where are they? Look amongst yourselves. Look in your campuses and streets. Look in your cafes. They are there. You can't see them? Why not? Time to get serious. Stop playing games. Shut down their communications. Shut down their trade routes. Shut down their reinforcements. Shut down their media. Watch your surroundings. Watch for things out of the ordinary. Watch for strangers doing strange things. Who you are does not matter right now to them....unless you fit the profile of their proclaimed enemies. Open your eyes and stop talking about it. We are at war. There are no longer terrorists. They are your enemies. They will kill you. Watch!
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I can't fathom why people would join ISIS, or how anybody could shoot any unarmed person, or the other things that people in ISIS or mass-shooters casually visit on other humans. I don't understand the thinking that leads' to people's behavior half the time around here it seems like. People have always had a tendency towards visiting flash-mob grief on others, gory or otherwise. Frankly, it's incredibly disturbing to notice around you everywhere.
 
I happen to be quite weary about Islam, just as I am of any other religion/sect/ideology that tries to force itself down peoples throats. so I've started watching videos of speeches by imams n stuff and seen a few translated stories from the Koran. Can't even say that educating myself on it has been positive thus far or even remotely reassuring.

About what housel quoted. I do remember times where terrorism was not always done by people who consider themselves to be muslims.
 
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Multiple news outlets are reporting that hacktivist collective Anonymous have declared war on ISIS, but it's probably just fluff.
 
JJJA said:
I just made the mistake of checking out Twitter. Underneath the hashtag #Paris, there is #Muslims. It seems every single one of these tweets involves shamelessly and arrogantly disregarding over 100+ French people that have just been murdered, and instead prefer to use this time to lecture everyone on why 'not all Muslims are bad people'. Everybody knows this, but this kind of talk implies that they do not wish for Islam or religion itself to come under any scrutiny, even after so many people have been murdered in its name and branding. For shame. Stand with dignity and stop pandering to self-flagellation and capitulation; that's what Europe needs to do right now.
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I disagree. I am not taking away from the people thta were murdered horrifically, but Islam and terrorism are NOT the same thing. Islam is somethig terrorist groups like to hide behind.

This was a quote I thought said it very well:
"Attacks like the ones tonight in Paris are committed to purposely trigger an Islamophobic backlash. That backlash is not an unintended consequence of such attacks, it is part of their logic. ISIS types want an Islamophobic backlash because it lends credence to their narrative that there is a war between the West and Islam. By strengthening and emboldening the xenophobic right-wing in Europe, they strengthen their own worldview as well. And the most tragic irony is that that backlash may target refugees who themselves had been fleeing ISIS' reign of terror. Thoughts with everyone in Paris tonight. May the forces who wish to beget an apocalyptic "war of civilizations" be defeated."
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Katniss Neverbeef said:
I disagree. I am not taking away from the people thta were murdered horrifically, but Islam and terrorism are NOT the same thing. Islam is somethig terrorist groups like to hide behind.

This was a quote I thought said it very well:
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I have never claimed that all terrorism is synonymous with Islam. However, I disagree that they hide behind their own idealism. You should check out a documentary issued by VICE in the United States. They sent out a small team and were allowed to film in an Islamic State-controlled territory in Syria. Plenty of evidence suggests that this particular group are overtly and proudly flying the flag of their prophet Muhammad in order to dominate entire countries and create a Caliphate. They have publicly announced this several times since their inception. The so-called 'Xenophobic Islamophobic backlash'. Where is it? The far-right have so little influence in Europe now (with the exception of the French party Front Nationale) that each backlash is hardly considered news worthy. I also think it is very politically manipulative of some commentators in the media to speculate some phantom far-right backlash, instead of analysing what happened in Paris and working out what caused the attack to happen in the first place. It seems you are more worried about some people hating all Muslims, rather than the division which ISIS are creating within our society, which makes me agree only partially with your point about the backlash. I think the attackers wanted us to fear a far-right backlash, so that they could keep indoctrinating young Muslim men to fight for their cause using influential Imams in the mosques and training camps in ISIS-controlled territories, so they can keep planning attacks on Western countries. They are using the freedoms we hold dear to keep attacking us, because the only thing we can do is bump up our security. I still think religion, in-particular Islam is to blame for all of this. I am saying precisely what [MENTION=13729]Free2be[/MENTION] said in this same thread. Religion is poison and look what it has done to the minds of the attackers. I shall not be afraid to voice my own concern for how dangerous religion as a whole has been for our species for the last few thousand years, and it still continues to rack up its body count in the name of 'God.'
 
Katniss Neverbeef said:
I disagree. I am not taking away from the people thta were murdered horrifically, but Islam and terrorism are NOT the same thing. Islam is somethig terrorist groups like to hide behind.

This was a quote I thought said it very well:
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Agreed. Its sad that anyone would think terrorism and Islam are synonymous. One persons terrorist is another's freedom fighter. It just depends on whose reporting it and how they choose to view it a lot of the time. An example is Russia indicating the Ukraines actions in attempting to remain a sovereign nation to be of terrorist intent.
With Muslim's we simply have another case where some are using the religion to manipulate others undoubtedly in the end, for political purposes. The true enemy here is not Muslims. It is and always has been ignorance.
 
JJJA said:
I have never claimed that all terrorism is synonymous with Islam. However, I disagree that they hide behind their own idealism. You should check out a documentary issued by VICE in the United States. They sent out a small team and were allowed to film in an Islamic State-controlled territory in Syria. Plenty of evidence suggests that this particular group are overtly and proudly flying the flag of their prophet Muhammad in order to dominate entire countries and create a Caliphate. They have publicly announced this several times since their inception. The so-called 'Xenophobic Islamophobic backlash'. Where is it? The far-right have so little influence in Europe now (with the exception of the French party Front Nationale) that each backlash is hardly considered news worthy. I also think it is very politically manipulative of some commentators in the media to speculate some phantom far-right backlash, instead of analysing what happened in Paris and working out what caused the attack to happen in the first place. It seems you are more worried about some people hating all Muslims, rather than the division which ISIS are creating within our society, which makes me agree only partially with your point about the backlash. I think the attackers wanted us to fear a far-right backlash, so that they could keep indoctrinating young Muslim men to fight for their cause using influential Imams in the mosques and training camps in ISIS-controlled territories, so they can keep planning attacks on Western countries. I still think religion, in-particular Islam is to blame for all of this. I am saying precisely what [MENTION=13729]Free2be[/MENTION] said in this same thread. Religion is poison and look what it has done to the minds of the attackers. I shall not be afraid to voice my own concern for how dangerous religion as a whole has been for our species for the last few thousand years, and it still continues to rack up its body count in the name of 'God.'
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You are rather impossible to discuss things with because you have a tendency to have your mind made up about things and assume people are saying things that they are in fact not. It's just like social media -- not worth the effort and emotional energy to discuss.
 
Oh and I am sorry but I do have to mention this. For anyone thinking the Muslim religon is about war and not peace and that it differs from other religions in that regard.... try reading the Old Testament some time.
 
Eventhorizon said:
Agreed. Its sad that anyone would think terrorism and Islam are synonymous. One persons terrorist is another's freedom fighter. It just depends on whose reporting it and how they choose to view it a lot of the time. An example is Russia indicating the Ukraines actions in attempting to remain a sovereign nation to be of terrorist intent.
With Muslim's we simply have another case where some are using the religion to manipulate others undoubtedly in the end, for political purposes. The true enemy here is not Muslims. It is and always has been ignorance.
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For the record, I was glad to see news of France's attack on ISIS when I got up this morning. I think groups like ISIS need to be destroyed.

Paris is very dear to my heart. I have Parisian friends and lot of Irish friends who live over in Paris. It is my favourite city in Europe and I visit every chance I get. What happened is heartbreaking. It's also terrifying. Since the attacks there have been 30 reported cases of people here in Ireland signing up with ISIS and the Gardai currently have them on high alert waiting to see if any of them will go lone wolf and pull a stunt here in Ireland.

It just makes me sad that some people can't see the hate and racism that ISIS shit causes for muslims all over the world. Muslims I know hate these groups because people can't seperate terrorism using a religion and the people who follow a religion themselves. I just read an article about a man pushing a muslim woman in front of a london underground train ffs.
 
Katniss Neverbeef said:
You are rather impossible to discuss things with because you have a tendency to have your mind made up about things and assume people are saying things that they are in fact not. It's just like social media -- not worth the effort and emotional energy to discuss.
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I am not assuming anything. I took what you said to the letter and simply disagreed with you (I did agree with you on a small point), as you disagreed with me initially, and I then gave you a reasoned response as to why I disagreed with what you said. That is what a discussion looks like. Do you want me to apologize for sticking to my own opinions and to automatically agree with you like a robotic parrot? You are the one that assumed I was calling Islam synonymous with terrorism, which I wasn't and I explained to you my further points.
 
Katniss Neverbeef said:
For the record, I was glad to see news of France's attack on ISIS when I got up this morning. I think groups like ISIS need to be destroyed.

Paris is very dear to my heart. I have Parisian friends and lot of Irish friends who live over in Paris. It is my favourite city in Europe and I visit every chance I get. What happened is heartbreaking. It's also terrifying. Since the attacks there have been 30 reported cases of people here in Ireland signing up with ISIS and the Gardai currently have them on high alert waiting to see if any of them will go lone wolf and pull a stunt here in Ireland.

It just makes me sad that some people can't see the hate and racism that ISIS shit causes for muslims all over the world. Muslims I know hate these groups because people can't seperate terrorism using a religion and the people who follow a religion themselves. I just read an article about a man pushing a muslim woman in front of a london underground train ffs.
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Small minded humans. :(
 
JJJA said:
I am not assuming anything. I took what you said to the letter and simply disagreed with you (I did agree with you on a small point), as you disagreed with me initially, and I then gave you a reasoned response as to why I disagreed with what you said. That is what a discussion looks like. Do you want me to apologize for sticking to my own opinions and to automatically agree with you like a robotic parrot? You are the one that assumed I was calling Islam synonymous with terrorism, which I wasn't and I explained to you my further points.
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Reading all of your posts from the beginning you don't come off as being able to seperate Islam and terrorism. It's all very grey when you talk.

I was a little irritated with the way you put it " it seems like youre more worried about some people hating all muslims" like some dumb ass kid tumblr social justice warrior. No, I am concerned with the MANY people around the world who are unable to differentiate between groups like ISIS and oridnary muslim people who practice Islam. That in itself is also a big issue.

That is a seperate issue. Of course I hope ISIS is obliterated.
 
Katniss Neverbeef said:
Reading all of your posts from the beginning you don't come off as being able to seperate Islam and terrorism. It's all very grey when you talk.

I was a little irritated with the way you put it " it seems like youre more worried about some people hating all muslims" like some dumb ass kid tumblr social justice warrior. No, I am concerned with the MANY people around the world who are unable to differentiate between groups like ISIS and oridnary muslim people who practice Islam. That in itself is also a big issue.


That is a seperate issue. Of course I hope ISIS is obliterated.
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Again, I repeat: I do not think Islam and terrorism are synonymous. I can't believe I have to even defend myself to you in such a way. People blaming and attacking Muslims is not my fault, nor my problem, but it is the fault of the attackers as to why I am blaming all religion for this mess. Just stop thinking that when I say 'religion' I am not saying 'People. When I say 'Islam' I do not say 'Muslims'. Since the attacks I have blamed a bunch of terrible ideas and nobody in-particular, aside from ISIS. There, that is the last time I explain myself.
 
It is mildly amusing, but mostly just sad, that in a thread about attacks the conversation has de-evolved into us attacking each other. It's fine to disagree, everyone is free to their own opinions. I simply think it's important to remember to keep our focus on someone's argument, rather than on their character.
 
Flavus Aquila said:
Claiming there are peaceful muslims might work on the individual level, but there is not such thing as a significant peaceful muslim community anywhere in the world. Islam as a religion of peace? Pleeeaaase!

Islamic countries:
Afghanistan
Albania
Algeria
Azerbaijan
Bahrain
Bangladesh
Brunei
Burkina Faso
Chad
Comoros
Djibouti
Egypt
Guinea
Indonesia
Iran
Iraq
Jordan
Kazakhstan
Kosovo
Kuwait
Kyrgyzstan
Lebanon
Libya
Malaysia
Maldives
Mali
Mauritania
Mayotte
Morocco
Niger
Nigeria
Oman
Pakistan
Palestine
Qatar
Saudi Arabia
Senegal
Sierra Leone
Somalia
Sudan
Syria
Tajikistan
The Gambia
Tunisia
Turkey
Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus
Turkmenistan
United Arab Emirates
Uzbekistan
Western Sahara
Yemen
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What do you think you proved with your list?
That you can lump the innocent together with the few dangerous assholes?
I’m not arguing that certain places have dangerous religious ideology, in fact I named the main culprits.

Why do you think they view us that way? Just because of some scriptures…come on.
 
Do you all not see that you are letting the terrorists terrorize you?
We have people saying some really nasty shit about people whom you really don’t know.

Love your enemy? Turn the other cheek?

Congrats on letting the terrorists win with the fear they have placed in your hearts.
 
We are using the wrong words. This isn't terrorism. It is jihad. This IS about religion, guys. We have to talk about it without assuming that talking about it means that all Muslims are terrorists or even violent jihadists.

JJJA hasn't created an 'other' in his mind. He is speaking the truth. Islam creates the 'other'; kafirs.

Why can't we critique a belief that creates an 'other' that when pushed to to it's limits kills people? People call out Christianity and it's doctrine, it's texts, it's ideas all the time. Why not Islam? This isn't something that just should happen. It ought to happen.
 
Skarekrow said:
What do you think you proved with your list?
That you can lump the innocent together with the few dangerous assholes?
I’m not arguing that certain places have dangerous religious ideology, in fact I named the main culprits.

Why do you think they view us that way? Just because of some scriptures…come on.
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You talk about individuals if you want to. I'll talk about societies/countries/cultures if I want to. Fair?

Anyhow - that list of countries was more about the consistency of shit-bombed out, women bashing, pre-pubescent-girl-kidnapping-raping-marrying, conflict/revenge-mongering, ass-end of hell-adelic, countries.

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The word "Islam" translates equally as "peace","submission", and "surrender". (Hard to fathom, but check any Islamic site - those three meanings are significant to Muslims).

In the West, the word "peace"/"Pax" is synonymous with freedom, affection, and concord.
 
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