People are getting dumber

The military industrial complex is also developing nano technology that can be inserted into vaccines that can target peoples DNA and parts of the brain for behaviour modification for example someones ability to empathise. The clip below has someone talking about it after the guy in the anonymous mask at the start:

[video=youtube;2MuXgpl2Sxg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MuXgpl2Sxg[/video]
 
Have no fear for nanotechnology
Cause none of them can stop the times...
 
Have no fear for nanotechnology
Cause none of them can stop the times...

I wouldn't in a free, open and transparent society and neither would Bob i reckon; but in the hands of psychos its a concern, which is why we need a re-think on our society...which i reckon Bob would also agree on from going on what he was saying
 
question, what types of knowledge are valued today vs. hundreds of years ago? In other words, define "dumber" and "smarts". What thoughts are important? Which ones are valuable? How can you say something is dumb or dumber if you don't define what's considered smart? For example, social smarts weren't valued as much as they are today. We judge things today not by intrinsic value but by reason and value. Why should I do this? (reason) How do I benefit? (value) We don't simply learn things or push ourselves to process information unless it's clear what, why, and how. In other words, if you don't need to be stereotypically "smart" in the traditional sense, to be successful and accomplished, then why bother? That's what many more are likely to think today.
 
question, what types of knowledge are valued today vs. hundreds of years ago? In other words, define "dumber" and "smarts". What thoughts are important? Which ones are valuable? How can you say something is dumb or dumber if you don't define what's considered smart? For example, social smarts weren't valued as much as they are today. We judge things today not by intrinsic value but by reason and value. Why should I do this? (reason) How do I benefit? (value) We don't simply learn things or push ourselves to process information unless it's clear what, why, and how. In other words, if you don't need to be stereotypically "smart" in the traditional sense, to be successful and accomplished, then why bother? That's what many more are likely to think today.

Good point, we do face different challenges today

I think in many ways things are tougher for kids nowadays then they were for my generation. Things were simpler then: making ramps for our BMX's, climbing trees and daring each other to do stupid shit, only 4 channels on TV, one TV per house

Imagination was really important....we defined our own realities

Now kids play computer games and watch countless TV programmes which all define the reality for them
 
Good point, we do face different challenges today

I think in many ways things are tougher for kids nowadays then they were for my generation. Things were simpler then: making ramps for our BMX's, climbing trees and daring each other to do stupid shit, only 4 channels on TV, one TV per house

Imagination was really important....we defined our own realities

Now kids play computer games and watch countless TV programmes which all define the reality for them

yeah, since technology does most of the thinking for us, then why should we have to do it ourselves? That's the reasoning today. Why learn a skill or memorize information when you can simply "look it up"? That's one of the issues affecting our education today. People are not putting as much mental effort or creativity into things because as you've said, someone else is doing it for us. The world is defining how we should feel or think, so there's less room to think or imagine outside of the world created for us, especially online and through media. Also, there's less value in imagining possibilities today because of the economy we have in US for example. Because job options are more limited and dream careers are not financially feasible, we don't have a belief anymore in expanding our horizons since many feel they can't make a living from what they want to do.
 
Last edited:
I haven't read the actual paper, but if it's accurately represented in this article, the theory is flawed.

Modern intelligence tests have only been conducted for a century, so we have no knowledge of how intelligent the average person was before the early 1900s. However, what we do know is that the average intelligence quotient of a population increases over time (the Flynn Effect). In other words, people are getting smarter.

In order for Crabtree's hypothesis to be true, people in third world countries who have to use traditional skills in order to survive should score higher on intelligence tests than people in developed countries, but that's not the case. To my knowledge, there are two things that can adversely affect people's intelligence quotient: malnutrition and a lack of cognitive stimulation. In the developed world, we have to use our problem solving skills very often, and we certainly don't suffer from malnutrition. Hunter-gatherers, on the other hand, only had to hunt and gather. These are simple activities which do not involve problem solving.

I really like this quote: "Crabtree does argue that no matter how deteriorated our intellectual abilities may have become over the millennia, advancements in technology will someday render these changes insignificant."

If people are getting dumber, who's going to invent these advanced technologies?
 
In order for Crabtree's hypothesis to be true, people in third world countries who have to use traditional skills in order to survive should score higher on intelligence tests than people in developed countries, but that's not the case. To my knowledge, there are two things that can adversely affect people's intelligence quotient: malnutrition and a lack of cognitive stimulation. In the developed world, we have to use our problem solving skills very often, and we certainly don't suffer from malnutrition. Hunter-gatherers, on the other hand, only had to hunt and gather. These are simple activities which do not involve problem solving.

I really like this quote: "Crabtree does argue that no matter how deteriorated our intellectual abilities may have become over the millennia, advancements in technology will someday render these changes insignificant."

If people are getting dumber, who's going to invent these advanced technologies?

Well, I also can't be sure ($40 for anything like this just doesn't seem like a good deal), but I could imagine that one could argue that only a select few are actually responsible for the technological riches of society… while the people who benefit from those riches aren't necessarily capable of reproducing, improving, or even repairing the things around them.

Think about the iPhone for example-- I would imagine that something like that is unthinkably complex to the majority of people who own them. It's not magic, because people still know that it's made of aluminum and circuits and chips and plastic… but I highly doubt that it would be possible for most people to assemble one from scratch, even when given all of the necessary parts and tools.

You say that hunting/gathering isn't intellectually stimulating or demanding-- have you ever been hunting? Even with a semi-automatic rifle and an abundance of non-dangerous game, a lot of people nowadays still find it difficult. So how would one do the same thing with primitive tools, as well as the ever-present threat of being killed? It's kind of funny how we always assume that ancient humans would look at modern humans and say 'that's magic!', when chances are if we actually met a primitive man and saw how they did things, we probably wouldn't believe it either.

Whenever you go into the wild, there are the time-tested things that you need to know how to do, but there are also unexpected things that can occur and require problem-solving abilities to resolve-- otherwise you die. There are a lot of survival situations where you need ti able to recognize beneficial elements simply from what's on hand, and failure to do so can be a matter of life or death… so practically everyone would have to be innovative-- but in the west, and especially in the cities, people just aren't faced with those kinds of situations.

Some people may be lucky, but most of us work at jobs that are routine and not particularly challenging. Quite a few jobs in the west don't demand any degree of innovation from the people involved… and certainly aren't physically healthy. We get our food from supermarkets, our entertainment from computers, film and TV, our knowledge from books, newspapers, etc… there really aren't a lot of opportunities for the average person to actually apply or exercise their intelligence.
 
Last edited:
Well, I also can't be sure ($40 for anything like this just doesn't seem like a good deal), but I could imagine that one could argue that only a select few are actually responsible for the technological riches of society… while the people who benefit from those riches aren't necessarily capable of reproducing, improving, or even repairing the things around them.

Think about the iPhone for example-- I would imagine that something like that is unthinkably complex to the majority of people who own them. It's not magic, because people still know that it's made of aluminum and circuits and chips and plastic… but I highly doubt that it would be possible for most people to assemble one from scratch, even when given all of the necessary parts and tools.

You say that hunting/gathering isn't intellectually stimulating or demanding-- have you ever been hunting? Even with a semi-automatic rifle and an abundance of non-dangerous game, a lot of people nowadays still find it difficult. So how would one do the same thing with primitive tools, as well as the ever-present threat of being killed? It's kind of funny how we always assume that ancient humans would look at modern humans and say 'that's magic!', when chances are if we actually met a primitive man and saw how they did things, we probably wouldn't believe it either.

Whenever you go into the wild, there are the time-tested things that you need to know how to do, but there are also unexpected things that can occur and require problem-solving abilities to resolve-- otherwise you die. There are a lot of survival situations where you need ti able to recognize beneficial elements simply from what's on hand, and failure to do so can be a matter of life or death… so practically everyone would have to be innovative-- but in the west, and especially in the cities, people just aren't faced with those kinds of situations.

Some people may be lucky, but most of us work at jobs that are routine and not particularly challenging. Quite a few jobs in the west don't demand any degree of innovation from the people involved… and certainly aren't physically healthy. We get our food from supermarkets, our entertainment from computers, film and TV, our knowledge from books, newspapers, etc… there really aren't a lot of opportunities for the average person to actually apply or exercise their intelligence.

I actually do hunt from time to time, and I certainly agree that it's stimulating. I'm not saying hunter-gatherers were not skilled at what they did; I just find that the article is misleading.

Being good at what you do is not necessarily a sign of intelligence. The skills of prehistoric hunter-gatherers were a result of intergenerational transmission of knowledge. One generation would pass on their knowledge to the next generation, and from time to time, a person would deviate from the norm and find new and better solutions. That's how skills slowly evolve. The stone age lasted some 2.5 million years, and while the design of the tools that lent their name to the period changed, the basic concept didn't. They were still just tools made of stone. I've tried flintknapping, and it didn't go so well - it's very difficult and it probably takes a lifetime to master, but I don't think intelligence plays a major role in the acquisition of that particular skill. Later on, when people began cultivating the land, the process was the same. A person wasn't necessarily a good farmer because he was intelligent. He grew up on a farm, and he would have been working in the field from a very young age. He would have learned from his peers.

This doesn't necessarily mean people were unintelligent back then. There is no evidence to support that, just as there is no evidence to support the theory that people are getting dumber. The premise of Crabtree's paper seems to be that traditional activities would have required a higher intellectual capacity than modern ones, and I don't believe that's true.

It's an undisputable fact that the average intelligence quotient has rapidly increased ever since we began conducting intelligence tests in the first half the the 20th century:

http://eyeonsociety.co.uk/resources/RPMChangeAndStability.pdf

As I see it, there are two possibilities: either the increase is a continuous process that has been in effect since the dawn of mankind (which seems unlikely since there's a limit as to how unintelligent an individual can be and still survive,) or the average intelligence is constant, and will remain about the same until some external factor allows it to rise or fall. My personal theory, which I can't back up with facts, is that the current increase in intelligence is a result of the Age of Enlightenment, industrialization, and the emergence of a (seemingly) classless society. The generational increase in IQ is already slowing down, and it's quite likely that it'll stagnate in a few years.
 
I don't think people are necessarily getting dumber... IMO it's more like corporates are dumbing people down more than ever, but at the same time, free access to knowledge makes those who want to learn, be smarter at the same time. So there's a new not well understood balance going in the past few decades.
 
I haven't read the actual paper, but if it's accurately represented in this article, the theory is flawed.

Modern intelligence tests have only been conducted for a century, so we have no knowledge of how intelligent the average person was before the early 1900s. However, what we do know is that the average intelligence quotient of a population increases over time (the Flynn Effect). In other words, people are getting smarter.

In order for Crabtree's hypothesis to be true, people in third world countries who have to use traditional skills in order to survive should score higher on intelligence tests than people in developed countries, but that's not the case. To my knowledge, there are two things that can adversely affect people's intelligence quotient: malnutrition and a lack of cognitive stimulation. In the developed world, we have to use our problem solving skills very often, and we certainly don't suffer from malnutrition. Hunter-gatherers, on the other hand, only had to hunt and gather. These are simple activities which do not involve problem solving.

I really like this quote: "Crabtree does argue that no matter how deteriorated our intellectual abilities may have become over the millennia, advancements in technology will someday render these changes insignificant."

If people are getting dumber, who's going to invent these advanced technologies?

My sense from living amongst people in the third world is that they are smarter and tend to be more creative/resourceful overall.

The intelligence tests say something else but increasingly IQ tests are being discredited by Psychologists as it seems that these tests do tend to measure the ability to do IQ tests rather than actual intelligence. The truth is that if you do enough of these tests your scores in them increases after some time. There are many kinds of intelligences also.

Really, the sooner we leave IQ tests to certain generally useless, insecure NTs who are trying to boost their self esteem the better.
 
My sense from living amongst people in the third world is that they are smarter and tend to be more creative/resourceful overall.

The intelligence tests say something else but increasingly IQ tests are being discredited by Psychologists as it seems that these tests do tend to measure the ability to do IQ tests rather than actual intelligence. The truth is that if you do enough of these tests your scores in them increases after some time. There are many kinds of intelligences also.

Really, the sooner we leave IQ tests to certain generally useless, insecure NTs who are trying to boost their self esteem the better.

Empathy, compassion, creativity, etc. are all human values I would rank much higher than intelligence. I know that IQ tests are far from flawless, and that they fail to cover many aspects of what we would define as "intelligence." Unfortunately, they're the only empirical evidence we have.

Our disagreement might be the result of a semantic misunderstanding. When Crabtree claims human intelligence peaked before our ancestors left Africa, I assume he's referring to cognitive power. If that's not the case, I'm not really sure what he's trying to say. Apparently, he presents no evidence at all to support his claim, so what he means is anyone's guess.
 
A far as intelligence goes, I think there is only so far man vs nature is going to take us. Lately I think we have been living a man vs man lifestyle. We are smarter to live in our current environment where we dont need a lot of skills to avoid getting eaten by large animals or to build a teepee and migrate. It would be nice if we could learn both ways at once but there is only so much time in the world.
 
Last edited:
Presumably evolution favors adaptations that make one more reproductively successful within a particular environment.

One strong factor that limits reproductive success in our environment is the notion that reproduction interferes with academic, financial and social success. It then seems imaginable that individuals who are both academically/financially/socially motivated and susceptible to popular notions will be evolutionarily disadvantaged in our current environment.

If there is a reasonably strong correlation between academic/financial/social motivation combined with susceptibility to certain notions, then yes people are getting dumber.
 
Back
Top