Policy and Ideology

lucyinthedarkness said:
I think that we need new Socrates. Great master/ teacher who can educate new ruler. You know.. people don't want to be free, they want safety and security.
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Assuming this were to work, what would happen when the new Socrates and the ruler die?

I'm afraid the most likely outcome is totalitarianism.
 
Ren said:
The problem is that defenders of opposing ideologies will often both claim to hold the values you're talking about :-/
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Yea no kidding especially when such ideologies sweep through society forcing people to take sides they otherwise would have never taken. The tribalism is scary as fuck these days and doesn't bode well for humanity as a whole.
 
I think I share a very similar view to @Winterflowers , similarly by American politics I would be considered "liberal". I know it gets me a lot of flack elsewhere but I enjoy calling myself a centrist and rather than often standing by one party or another I challenge you to exit your echo chamber and consider where and what the other side is seeing and coming from.

Despite this I actually do have some very strong rooted political opinions on certain things. I often feel a hesitancy to state my actual beliefs on this front. I can tell you up front though - both elections I did not vote for Trump.
 
I don't think people's beliefs have much to do with reality. It's mostly just starting with what you want to believe and then making up reasons to do what you wanted to do to begin with.

I just want things to work well and make sense. Centralizing power means that people's poor decisions can ruin everyone's lives instead of just that person who errs's own. I don't like people making decisions "for your benefit" it's not anyone else's job to determine what's good for me or what I should want. It's mine. I don't want the choice taken away for me for my "benefit".

Classical liberal is the label applied then I guess. I'm in favor of the individual rather than constructing society to some ideal.
 
Reason said:
I don't think people's beliefs have much to do with reality. It's mostly just starting with what you want to believe and then making up reasons to do what you wanted to do to begin with.

I just want things to work well and make sense. Centralizing power means that people's poor decisions can ruin everyone's lives instead of just that person who errs's own. I don't like people making decisions "for your benefit" it's not anyone else's job to determine what's good for me or what I should want. It's mine. I don't want the choice taken away for me for my "benefit".

Classical liberal is the label applied then I guess. I'm in favor of the individual rather than constructing society to some ideal.
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I think the idea of classical liberalism sounds good on surface, but it becomes counterproductive to a healthy society. Everybody should be free to do what they think is good - except make and spread dogmas. The fact is that you can't have a set of vague goods and then expect people to "correctly" interpret their specifics when it comes to acting in real world.

If you asked both American parties, it would come down to it that they both work for liberty - because it means nothing, except everything. They both work for fairness - because it means nothing, except everything.

Nobody wants to define what is good, only because they have defined being dogmatic as bad. And then they get mad when other people are not "good enough" in their nebulous standards.
 
Reason said:
I don't think people's beliefs have much to do with reality. It's mostly just starting with what you want to believe and then making up reasons to do what you wanted to do to begin with.

I just want things to work well and make sense. Centralizing power means that people's poor decisions can ruin everyone's lives instead of just that person who errs's own. I don't like people making decisions "for your benefit" it's not anyone else's job to determine what's good for me or what I should want. It's mine. I don't want the choice taken away for me for my "benefit".

Classical liberal is the label applied then I guess. I'm in favor of the individual rather than constructing society to some ideal.
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The sad part is that for the most part society is moving towards totalitarianism again especially with the young who were/are indoctrinated in the public education systems and social media. Garbage like critical race theory doesn't bode well for the future of society and with the msm talking heads it is starting to mirror some of the same that happened with the rise of totalitarianism in Europe.

This is likely where things will be headed in some capacity.
 
Sidis Coruscatis said:
I think the idea of classical liberalism sounds good on surface, but it becomes counterproductive to a healthy society. Everybody should be free to do what they think is good - except make and spread dogmas. The fact is that you can't have a set of vague goods and then expect people to "correctly" interpret their specifics when it comes to acting in real world.

If you asked both American parties, it would come down to it that they both work for liberty - because it means nothing, except everything. They both work for fairness - because it means nothing, except everything.

Nobody wants to define what is good, only because they have defined being dogmatic as bad. And then they get mad when other people are not "good enough" in their nebulous standards.
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If you asked both American political parties you'd get a smokescreen of lies that has nothing to do with what they actually do. I don't ask them because they're not honest people. (The establishment I mean, not the voters)

As for defining what is good I don't think it's too abstract to say that I want individuals to have the greatest amount of freedom and choice possible and a centralized government to have the least amount of power possible whilst still performing those functions that are indispensable.
 
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Roses In The Vineyard said:
The sad part is that for the most part society is moving towards totalitarianism again especially with the young who were/are indoctrinated in the public education systems and social media. Garbage like critical race theory doesn't bode well for the future of society and with the msm talking heads it is starting to mirror some of the same that happened with the rise of totalitarianism in Europe.

This is likely where things will be headed in some capacity.
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What's the latest update on the reeducation camps for people who voted "wrong" last election?
 
Reason said:
What's the latest update on the reeducation camps for people who voted "wrong" last election?
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More so than just the vote as much has been going on as to "wrong think" where censorship on social media, msm, and other areas increasingly has become a real issue after all those who do know history such often does not end well.
https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/book-burning

"Wherever they burn books, in the end will also burn human beings." - Heinrich Heine
 
Roses In The Vineyard said:
More so than just the vote as much has been going on as to "wrong think" where censorship on social media, msm, and other areas increasingly has become a real issue after all those who do know history such often does not end well.
https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/book-burning

"Wherever they burn books, in the end will also burn human beings." - Heinrich Heine
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Anything to make it more difficult to fact check them. CNN and Fox are trying to reassert their cartel's control over information.
 
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