Preacher man burning Qurans & deathsquadmania

I hope he does change. 'Cause this stuff ain't no joke.

ETA: Good news?

Fla. minister cancels burning of Qurans on 9/11
By ANTONIO GONZALEZ, Associated Press Writer Antonio Gonzalez, Associated Press Writer 24 mins ago

GAINESVILLE, Fla. – The minister of a Florida church said he has canceled plans to burn copies of the Quran because the leader of a much-opposed plan to build an Islamic Center near ground zero has agreed to move its location. The agreement couldn't be immediately confirmed.

The Rev. Terry Jones said Thursday that Americans oppose the mosque being built at the location and that Muslims do not want the Quran burned. He said instead of his plan to burn the books on Saturday to mark the ninth anniversary of 9/11, he will be flying to New York to speak to Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf about moving the mosque.

"We are, of course, now against any other group burning Qurans," Jones said during a news conference. We would right now ask no one to burn Qurans. We are absolutely strong on that. It is not the time to do it."

President Barack Obama, the top U.S. general in Afghanistan and several Christian leaders had urged Jones to reconsider his plans to burn the Quran, Islam's holiest text that Muslims consider sacred. They said his actions would endanger U.S. soldiers and provide a strong recruitment tool for Islamic extremists. Jones' protest also drew criticism from religious and political leaders from across the Muslim world.

Jones said Imam Muhammad Musri of the Islamic Society of Central Florida told him that officials would guarantee that the mosque would be moved.

"I asked him three times, and I have witnesses," Jones said. "If it's not moved, then I think Islam is a very poor example of religion. I think that would be very pitiful. I do not expect that."

Musri thanked Jones and his church members "for making the decision today to defuse the situation and bring to a positive end what has become the world over a spectacle that no one would benefit from except extremists and terrorists" who would use it to recruit future radicals.
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/quran_burning
 
I'm surprised by a lot of the responses here, look at it pragmatically, whether or not people should get upset about a thing like this is beside the point, fact is they will get upset, you're dealing with nutters here.

Inciting unstable people against you is not a good idea.
 
Quinlan said:
I'm surprised by a lot of the responses here, look at it pragmatically, whether or not people should get upset about a thing like this is beside the point, fact is they will get upset, you're dealing with nutters here.

Inciting unstable people against you is not a good idea.
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This exactly.
 
There is nothing wrong with burning Qu'rans.

Americans have the right to burn Qu'rans, or any book that they would like.

I have no objections to this behavior.

I would, furthermore, like to note, that this is not a 'Christian' issue. It does not reflect on the morality of the church and is not a moral situation as this discussion, as well as the mainstream media, would like to believe. Here is why:

One sole Christian member does not represent the entire Christian church. One group of Christian does not represent the entire Christian church. What one group of Christians are doing have nothing to do with the rest of the Christians, though through stereotyping we believe that somehow they do. One person's actions, unless they are the official representative of the entire group, does not reflect an entire group of people.

What it boils down to is this:

either you support this group of individuals to burn books, or you reject the law and say they shouldn't do it.

It's very constitutional to burn books and there is not anything legally wrong with what they are doing. If I want to burn 'To Kill a Mockingbird', I can.

Historically book burning has only been controversial when it is the government forcing people to burn books because of their conflict with political/religious and moral contradictions. This is more of an issue of freedom of speech and censorship than it is the book burning itself. Book burning damage cultures when they destroy the culture of groups of individuals by deleting all records and copies; these individuals were burning a mass produced version of the Qu'ran which is certaintly not the last and only copy. They were not forcing people who owned Qu'rans to burn them, they simply bought some, and burned them.
 
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slant said:
There is nothing wrong with burning Qu'rans.

One sole Christian member does not represent the entire Christian church. One group of Christian does not represent the entire Christian church. What one group of Christians are doing have nothing to do with the rest of the Christians, though through stereotyping we believe that somehow they do. One person's actions, unless they are the official representative of the entire group, does not reflect an entire group of people.
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I still think people are missing out the main point. We might think of it this way, but a radical Muslim will not. They could really care less if that one person does not represent the entire Christian population, they will blame it on the Christian world for attacking their ''holy book''. The same applies to millions of Americans who associate Islam with terrorism, when in reality is not the case. There's a lot of tension right now and regardless if its correct or not, it will create a lot of conflict. I am so glad it got called off.
 
Raccoon Love said:
I still think people are missing out the main point. We might think of it this way, but a radical Muslim will not. They could really care less if that one person does not represent the entire Christian population, they will blame it on the Christian world for attacking their ''holy book''. The same applies to millions of Americans who associate Islam with terrorism, when in reality is not the case. There's a lot of tension right now and regardless if its correct or not, it will create a lot of conflict. I am so glad it got called off.
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It's legal in our country and we will do what we want. Too bad if they are being oppressed for burning bibles.

Calling this off is a suppression of the American people's rights.
 
slant said:
It's legal in our country and we will do what we want. Too bad if they are being oppressed for burning bibles.

Calling this off is a suppression of the American people's rights.
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To forcibly call it off is suppressing American rights. To denounce it is also completely within American rights.

The man called it off on his own, as is my understanding.
 
Raccoon Love said:
I still think people are missing out the main point. We might think of it this way, but a radical Muslim will not. They could really care less if that one person does not represent the entire Christian population, they will blame it on the Christian world for attacking their ''holy book''. The same applies to millions of Americans who associate Islam with terrorism, when in reality is not the case. There's a lot of tension right now and regardless if its correct or not, it will create a lot of conflict. I am so glad it got called off.
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Ahh so we just gotta kill the people we dont like and then we can curb free speech through fear?
 
Billy said:
Ahh so we just gotta kill the people we dont like and then we can curb free speech through fear?
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Nah, we just have to kill people who have things we want but won't do our bidding. If they happen to do our bidding, we then have to kill them to prove something innate like dominance.
 
What makes me roll my eyes is this: People cry, "freedom of speech" as long as it doesn't affect them personally. When it does, it suddenly becomes slander, lies, or what have you. But freedom of speech only goes so far; you can't cry "fire" in a public theater and so forth...and if there's a possibility of breaking the law or causing harm because of your freedom to express yourself, I think that should be taken into consideration.

It's legal, but it's not wise.
 
mf said:
Nah, we just have to kill people who have things we want but won't do our bidding. If they happen to do our bidding, we then have to kill them to prove something innate like dominance.
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I'm not sure what that has to do with freedom of speech, but yeah I agree, its been that way for all powerful nations since the dawn of man from small hunter gatherer groups to Rome to us. You surprised?
 
sandra_b said:
I see what you're getting at Barnabas. I have seen truly terrible things about Christians being horribly abused and persecuted in other countries. But we never seem to hear much about that over here in North America. Burning a holy book is completely disrespectful and doesn't send a good message, but I do understand that this isn't true horror or violence like you may see elsewhere.
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I essentially agree, but I think they are honestly too different categories.


Burning books is persecution of the image of the religion.

Martyrdom is persecution of the actual people of the religion.

In *my* personal opinion, I think it's awful the persecution Christians face in every single country (assuming the 2nd world countries and worse). However, I also believe that any persecution due to any religion is awful, such as Christians shunning Muslims during the 9/11 atrocity. While I believe that while the Qu'ran may not say to kill the "infidels", that the majority of the Muslims in the east are quite vindictive in their revenge for being forgotten. I don't believe the Qu'ran tells all those poor souls to blow themselves up, I believe that their leaders insert their personal agenda and manipulate the verses to their will. And thus so many young lives are lost, simply because Bin laden wants to get back at the world for something.

My 2 cents, I don't mean to offend anyone. (I know religion is a very touchy subject.)
 
On its own merits, the burning of a koran deserves no attention from either side of the debate.

The act is trivial. It gains meaning only through exaggerated reactions. Now, if this preacher is subsequently kidnapped and beheaded for his offense, then I will be tempted to publicly burn a koran myself, simply as a demonstration against violent ideology. (Violent suppression of speech should not be allowed to succeed.) But even then, it should not carry any religious meaning.
Those seeking to be offended will always find a reason; consequently, those seeking to offend will always find an audience. Those who wish to break the cycle should make an effort to just stop caring about these petty acts.
 
Flavus Aquila said:
I'm tired of the Media making what would usually be a small-town fuss into an international incident.
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Same here. Seriously how many times did they repeat this story. I swear they make people get angry by simply repeating this until it becomes irritating . And I'm sick of Islam getting special treatment because their may be violent sects of people who believe in it. And I'm really sick of America being so stupid as to freak out and take their anger out on the wrong people. Thanks to those fudnimetialist Americans who mar everyone's reputation.

Its times like this I want to ban religion and the stupidity that follows it.

I'm sick of issues like this.

arbygil said:
What makes me roll my eyes is this: People cry, "freedom of speech" as long as it doesn't affect them personally. When it does, it suddenly becomes slander, lies, or what have you. But freedom of speech only goes so far; you can't cry "fire" in a public theater and so forth...and if there's a possibility of breaking the law or causing harm because of your freedom to express yourself, I think that should be taken into consideration.

It's legal, but it's not wise.
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And this is often wrapped up somewhere in stories like these.

This story feels like auguring and causing strife just for it's own sake. This kind of mindless action needs to stop.
 
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I think this incident highlights reactionary politics at its best. First of all, to be sure, Christianity has been the herald of death and destruction against many cultures and people throughout history and is responsible for the death of millions. Does that make Christianity inherently evil? No. There are plenty of radical muslims as well who hold beliefs that justify the killings of others for religious reasons. Does that make Muslims evil? No. The problem IMO is the absolute convinction that a majority of individuals place in heirarchial definitions. I see everybody trying to make right and wrong value judgements. A core belief of mine is that you have the right to choose who you want to be and how you want to express yourself. However, tribal beliefs also tell me that my "rights" ends when it begins to interfere with the "rights' of others. To burn a holy book is concerning to me because it symbolizes the belief that every person who finds value in this book is "bad" rather than holding individuals (Christian. Muslim or otherwise) accountable for their actions. When you seek to paint a whole people, culture, or religion with the same brush (good or evil) you walk a dangerous path because it makes it easier to justify seeing them as less than human and justify the stance that their life has no meaning.
 
As a Christian here's the problem,

The problem with this is that burning the Quran won't solve anything, instead it will bring more hate and destruction. Have we forgotten that there are Christians being prosecuted in the middle east as it is? Not only that but it make the militaries job in the middle east that much harder. This is a very selfish act on the behalf of this church. This is a sure way to convince the world that Christians as a whole are hateful people.

I honestly don't care whether or not if this action is legal, the point is that this is showing that we have no respect towards our fellow human being.

2 Timothy 1:7;
For God gave us a spirit not of fear but of power and love and self-control.
 
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slant said:
It's legal in our country and we will do what we want. Too bad if they are being oppressed for burning bibles.

Calling this off is a suppression of the American people's rights.
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Persecuting other religions in radical Muslim countries is also commonly seen. I'm not talking US scale, which is what a lot of Americans focus on. I am talking global conflicts, and persecution of others in other countries for a very unnecessary reason. Yes we can do what we want in this country, does it mean we are going to be stupid and let others suffer?

Billy said:
Ahh so we just gotta kill the people we dont like and then we can curb free speech through fear?
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No, we can have freedom of speech. I just believe in certain limits which the supreme court has already implemented on certain amendments. For example, as a student I don't have full freedom of speech and are subjected to certain rules inside my school. If we took and applied this ''constitutional rights'' literally on everything, the whole country will be in chaos. We need to be reasonable when deciding what is obviously crossing the line of things. This which could potentially cause disruption and conflict is one of those.
 
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